35 réponses à ce sujet

[Hazegurl]

I rather she to be loyal to her father's legacy and live in reality than to be happy. Neither is better, grey warden path is more realistic specially during the legacy DLC and act 3.

Malcolm didn't seem to even like the Wardens nor agree with their methods, I'm not seeing how joining them is following his legacy.  Both paths are realistic, imo. So it doesn't matter what you decide but If you want to say putting her in the circle is unrealistic then I can say that taking her into the deep roads when you already have a mage in the party is unrealistic.  What can she contribute that Anders or can't do better?  I also think it makes more sense that she would eventually get caught and taken to the Circle before Hawke can make a name for himself in the city.

[Lulupab]

Malcolm was an apostate and thought Bethany to be one and you are looking at things from a player's perspective and calling it real while I was talking about the game aspects. Circle mage Bethany thinks they are in a fairly tale of rediscovering their legacy, its like those teen drama series where a teenager wants to be "normal". Lorewise 2 mages is not conflicting at all, does gameplay matter in such things? Grey warden Bethany is more mature, against the circle system and is not an idealist. She sees things for what they are and will not worship their sibling, in fact she will be absolutely furious in act 3 if you have sided with Templars. She somewhat implies you are a disgrace to the family name.

[renfrees]

Do you argue in favor of GW Bethany to make yourself feel better? Because she's certainly not.

[Hazegurl]

Malcolm was an apostate and thought Bethany to be one and you are looking at things from a player's perspective and calling it real while I was talking about the game aspects. Circle mage Bethany thinks they are in a fairly tale of rediscovering their legacy, its like those teen drama series where a teenager wants to be "normal". Lorewise 2 mages is not conflicting at all, does gameplay matter in such things? Grey warden Bethany is more mature, against the circle system and is not an idealist. She sees things for what they are and will not worship their sibling, in fact she will be absolutely furious in act 3 if you have sided with Templars. She somewhat implies you are a disgrace to the family name.

No I'm looking at the story itself. My Hawke cared very much about his little sister and never had any plans to bring her into the deep roads after losing their brother to the darkspawn. There is just way too much danger and uncertainty for him to feel comfortable bringing her along.  He already had Anders, who was the primary group healer and a former GW who knew the deep roads, Varric was automatic as he was his partner, and therefore Fenris was the better option. My warrior Hawke was a tank. So that ruled Aveline out.  I saw no purpose to bringing Bethany against our mother's wishes. I couldn't bare her losing another child after Carver.  Not seeing how that is unrealistic or focused on gameplay.  You claim that Circle Bethany is unrealistic so I simply argued that the path to her ending up in the Circle seems to be more realistic for a older sibling to make than taking her along to begin with.  

 

You seem to be projecting way too much on Bethany.  You just don't like the Circle so you want her to hate it too when the story as told us otherwise.

[Lulupab]

Do you argue in favor of GW Bethany to make yourself feel better? Because she's certainly not.

 
Why would you even think that? if you side with mages and she comes back as GW at act 3 she thanks you for supporting her kind. Those are the exact words, then she says she will gladly help you rid the city of Templars. I see a mature woman who sees the world for what it is without childish delusions of wanting to be normal and kneeling before everything life throws at her aka circle mage Bethany. I could never bring myself to even try choosing killing her but I watched it on youtube, its was sad in a disgusting way and she died a coward's death, kneeling again, literally this time, not lifting a finger to help anyone or herself. GW Bethany would fight to the death. Undeniably GW warden Bethany is more bitter but she is stronger, proud and knows life is not a fairly tale, specially not for a mage.
 

No I'm looking at the story itself. My Hawke cared very much about his little sister and never had any plans to bring her into the deep roads after losing their brother to the darkspawn. There is just way too much danger and uncertainty for him to feel comfortable bringing her along.  He already had Anders, who was the primary group healer and a former GW who knew the deep roads, Varric was automatic as he was his partner, and therefore Fenris was the better option. My warrior Hawke was a tank. So that ruled Aveline out.  I saw no purpose to bringing Bethany against our mother's wishes. I couldn't bare her losing another child after Carver.  Not seeing how that is unrealistic or focused on gameplay.  You claim that Circle Bethany is unrealistic so I simply argued that the path to her ending up in the Circle seems to be more realistic for a older sibling to make than taking her along to begin with.  
 
You seem to be projecting way too much on Bethany.  You just don't like the Circle so you want her to hate it too when the story as told us otherwise.

You keep getting it wrong. Why are you keep comparing it to your own playthroughs? Its not a matter of headcanon or personal opinion, both paths exists and you are free to choose whichever you like but if you read the above post it doesn't change the fact that GW Bethany is more mature and realist. I didn't claim Circle mage Bethany is unrealistic as in it doesn't fit, I meant Bethany as a character is not a realist. I used to always send her to the circle but only once I made her GW and I realized what I have missed. She doesn't want to be normal none-mage person anymore and she admits to that in Legacy, admitting she owes everything to her father and a normal life would require normal parents and she doesn't want that. Again I feel she has matured from her childish self in act 1 and she hates the circle and Templars to no end which is always an added bonus. They ruined her life and she lived in fear of them for all those years so she has every right. I realized I wouldn't send my worst enemy to Kirkwall circle, neither as a mage nor as a Templar.

[thats1evildude]

Is there perhaps a way to roleplay around this?

 

Play an extremely self-interested and ambitious Hawke who supports the templars as a means to gain power. You don't care about their cause and don't turn in your apostate friends because they're still useful to you.

[Lulupab]

Play an extremely self-interested and power-hungry Hawke who supports the templars as a means to gain power.

 

Fitting, Both Orisino and Meredith wanted power long before becoming a bloodmage and corrupted by idol respectively (based in their background). The circle and Templars can grant power for those hungry enough. Nice roleplay.

[Hazegurl]

 

You keep getting it wrong. Why are you keep comparing it to your own playthroughs? Its not a matter of headcanon or personal opinion, both paths exists and you are free to choose whichever you like but if you read the above post it doesn't change the fact that GW Bethany is more mature and realist. I didn't claim Circle mage Bethany is unrealistic as in it doesn't fit, I meant Bethany as a character is not a realist.

Fair enough. I was arguing both meanings when I should have stuck to one. It's not a fact that she is a realist as a GW, that is simply your personal opinion on how her outlook on life should be. Her opinions of living in the Circle is just as realistic as her opinions as being a GW. Either way, it's her life.

 

edit: I have to add that from what I see she comes across as a bitter b*tch too wrapped up in her own misery as a GW.  I don't view depressing whiners as a realists. Mind you I've only had her twice in playthroughs and only once as a GW. I remember wishing I had left her dead in the deep roads though.

 

"I accept what I am and act accordingly. I can pretend to be miserable if you want, but I'm not." Doesn't sound like someone living in a fantasy world to me.

[Mykel54]

Tutorial on how to kill Anders & Merrill as non mage Hawke:

 

- Have Anders at 100 Rivalry, and do all his quests, yes, even planting the thing in the chantry. Talk to him later and tell him "You still can stop it!". He won´t do anything obviously, but at least he had some second thoughts about the whole thing.

 

- Have Merrill at less than 100 Rivalry, plus do NOT do his Act 3 quest. You can do it if you like, but do not finish the quest by talking to her in the alienage. You have to avoid playing the scene where she destroys the mirror and says "i have done everything wrong".

 

- Go to the Gallows, side with the templars, Merril will turn on you and join Orsino. Anders will go on his diatribe but showing more remorse, knife of death and he is gone. Then you will see Merrill outside the Gallows, she will say "are you really going to kill me?", answer: "it was your choice" (lowest option). Then when you meet her inside the Gallows she is surrounded by some bloodmages, say whatever you like and you kill her.

 

Enjoy.

[Icy Magebane]

Tutorial on how to kill Anders & Merrill as non mage Hawke:

 

- Have Anders at 100 Rivalry, and do all his quests, yes, even planting the thing in the chantry. Talk to him later and tell him "You still can stop it!". He won´t do anything obviously, but at least he had some second thoughts about the whole thing.

 

- Have Merrill at less than 100 Rivalry, plus do NOT do his Act 3 quest. You can do it if you like, but do not finish the quest by talking to her in the alienage. You have to avoid playing the scene where she destroys the mirror and says "i have done everything wrong".

 

- Go to the Gallows, side with the templars, Merril will turn on you and join Orsino. Anders will go on his diatribe but showing more remorse, knife of death and he is gone. Then you will see Merrill outside the Gallows, she will say "are you really going to kill me?", answer: "it was your choice" (lowest option). Then when you meet her inside the Gallows she is surrounded by some bloodmages, say whatever you like and you kill her.

 

Enjoy.

Well, this is a nice guide and all, but that sounds far too complicated for me.  I'll just continue to ignore Merrill unless I need to do one of her quests for exp and unique crafting components.

[GodBrandon]

My Hawke is a pro-templar mage.