15 réponses à ce sujet

[Linkenski]

Just sayin'. Garrus loves to calibrate but that joke is not something Bioware created, it's a meme created by the fans after ME2 and Bioware using it over and over in ME3 was just one of many examples of cheap and style-less pandering.

 

I don't dislike an inside joke or two here or there, but the self-referential humor or fanservice nods got on my nerves and pulled me straight outta the atmosphere of ME3 all the time.

 

Trying to get through the Genophage arc in 3 right now for the second time with Mordin and Shepard and Mordin constantly using the "Had to be me, someone else might've gotten it wrong" is just too much and lazy writing IMO. Once or twice is okay, but 10 times is just way too much.

 

 

I'm saying this, hoping Bioware will see this and obey to this one fan who seems to be a bit of a contrarian to the rest of the fanbase on this matter. By obey I mean that Bioware will take this feedback on face value and NEVER use lame self-ref jokes again.

 

PS. I like the Citadel DLC but keep dat shid in the DLCs in the future. Don't bring it into the main campaign plz. I liked Mordin before he got flanderized as did I with a lot of other characters before they were reduced to their basic principles and catchphrases.

[RoboticWater]

Unfortunately for you, internal references are generally a writer's dream. Self-referential humor is an acknowledgement of the community; a writer's work has become so pervasive or iconic within their audience that the writer can pull from their own work for new material. Just how a couple may eventually create their own special lexicon together, the writer and the audience form their own language. Sure, writers could continue communicating normally, but why not engage the reader with more intimate expressions.

 

It might seem lazy, but there's a reason behind references beyond avoiding the need for new material. Exploiting these memes helps strengthen the a narrative's continuity: Garrus wasn't randomly calibrating on the Normandy, as it turns out he was just incredibly good at it, and "Had to be me, someone else might've gotten it wrong," isn't something Mordin says every five minutes while a laugh track plays in the background, he just says it a few times because his character likes to say it. It seems quite reasonable to me, do none of your friends have a phrase they bring up more frequently than others? Yes, there is a point where reference can outweigh substance but Mordin's catchphrase (if it could even be called that) hardly overshadows the genuine emotion and remorse his character displayed in ME3 and a few calibration jokes don't ruin the emotional scene atop the roofs of the Presidium.

 

Mass Effect is heralded as one of the greatest game series ever made and honestly, that's due in part to the references. They're a lot like the choices we made throughout the series; they give each player a sense of intimacy with this incredibly long story. Yes, they're mostly used for chuckles but there are serious sentimental blows behind each reference.

[dreamgazer]

I enjoyed the initial Victus calibrating reference, and when Garrus said, completely serious, "calibrating a big gun is a vacation". Those worked great.

Unfortunately, those weren't the only ones.



I dig a healthy amount of self-reference, but I agree that they got to be a little much, especially in the ambient dialogue.

[Cheviot]

The writers didn't just make references to the "calibration" thing, they hightened it (kind of the equivalent of "yes and" in improv).  Not only do they develop it into a serious character trait (Garrus calibrates to take his mind off stress, therefore he's always calibrating) but also they make a joke later on that Garrus is so impossibly good at calibration that he surpasses what a Geth calculates is possible.  As for "it had to be me..", I can only remember him saying that twice; once when he meets Shepard again, and then again just before he goes.

[K2LU533]

Agreed, some amount is very cool but too much just ruins the atmosphere.

[MrFob]

The whole of ME3 is chock full of self reference. Not only the humor but almost everything you discuss/overhear on the Normandy is. I am ok with that. It's one of the mechanics that emphasizes the fact that you know these characters and that you have a connection.

But I agree with dreamgazer, the calibration thing would have been cool in one dialogue but it was way overdone.

[Wayning_Star]

cheap,lazy comic relief? I resemble that remark..

 

(I bet no body here knows where that comment comes from..)

[dreamgazer]

cheap,lazy comic relief? I resemble that remark..
 
(I bet no body here knows where that comment comes from..)

[Linkenski]

I think the reason why it became a problem for me in 3 was, that generally when I replay the trilogy I now tend to kill certain squadmates off in 2 just to avoid moments where the tone is inconsistent in 3. Seeing Jack is great in the Grissom Academy mission in 3, but I really could do without the "I will destroy you" reference. I mean, let me just break it down to you:

 

"I will destroy you" was a line constantly repeated by random human combatants in ME1, THEN added to Jack in 2 as a joke on that, THEN used as a self-ref. joke AGAIN in 3, poking fun of Jack who was already used to poke fun of random combat NPCs from ME1 in ME2.

 

There's also this, actually very serious side-mission on the Citadel in ME3 - a really bad one, mind you - but it basically determines the fate of the Hanar/Drell homeworld, but at a certain point right when the situation is actually the most serious Shepard uses a very lame version of the "Big. Stupid. Jellyfish" line from ME1.

 

It just pulls you out of the experience. I like Patrick Weekes as a writer. He wrote Mordin, Tali, The friggin Rannoch arc of ME3 and he did a fantastic job, but someone at Bioware should tell him to chill with the self-ref. jokes. They belong in fan-fiction, machinima, VGA skits, you name it. They don't work very well in a game that is otherwise so good at drawing you into its believable world and believable atmosphere.

[Vazgen]

That jellyfish moment is pretty weird if you play a paragon Shepard.

[dreamgazer]

I think the reason why it became a problem for me in 3 was, that generally when I replay the trilogy I now tend to kill certain squadmates off in 2 just to avoid moments where the tone is inconsistent in 3.

Do you kill Wrex off in ME1 for being tonally inconsistent in ME2?

There's also this, actually very serious side-mission on the Citadel in ME3 - a really bad one, mind you - but it basically determines the fate of the Hanar/Drell homeworld, but at a certain point right when the situation is actually the most serious Shepard uses a very lame version of the "Big. Stupid. Jellyfish" line from ME1.

Enjoyed the jellyfish reference in ME3, and I think there's enough to like about the indoctrinated Hanar mission, especially Jondum Bau.

It just pulls you out of the experience.

Eh, don't really agree, unless the same reference gets over-exploited.

[fyz306903]

I like the referential humour. Mass Effect wouldn't be as fun if it was grim and serious all the time. I particularly like it when Bioware pokes fun at either itself or general RPG tropes, (i.e. everything Conrad Verner says in ME2 and ME3, could they bring back a similar character for ME4, please?) 

[Linkenski]

Do you kill Wrex off in ME1 for being tonally inconsistent in ME2?


Enjoyed the jellyfish reference in ME3, and I think there's enough to like about the indoctrinated Hanar mission, especially Jondum Bau.


Eh, don't really agree, unless the same reference gets over-exploited.

There's a difference between Wrex being somewhat boring in ME1 and suddenly being humorous and snarky in ME2/3, to other characters like Garrus going from being a serious character in ME1 and 2 to being an inside-joke machine in Mass Effect 3.

[ZipZap2000]

Currently giggling about the LOTSB references on Sur'Kesh and "Still better than the Mako" in LOTSB itself was gold.

 

Big stupid jellyfish 4lyfe.

 

I'll admit  My Shep doesn't talk to Garrus much so I don't notice the calibration jokes as much as other people.

[dreamgazer]

There's a difference between Wrex being somewhat boring in ME1 and suddenly being humorous and snarky in ME2/3, to other characters like Garrus going from being a serious character in ME1 and 2 to being an inside-joke machine in Mass Effect 3.

 

Nothing about ME1 suggests that Wrex will transform into the character he becomes in ME2, at all. 

 

And Garrus? You mean Space Batman with the sexy scar and "reach" instead of "flexibility"?

[Han Shot First]

I'm okay self-referential humor or fanservice nods so long as it isn't overdone, doesn't result in characters doing or saying things that are otherwise out-of-character, and so long as it doesn't break the fourth wall. Basically I'm alright with it so long as it is done in moderation.

 

The part of the series where the inside-references and jokes irritated me most was probably during the Citadel DLC, where nearly all the NPCs populating the Sunset Strip make comments about multiplayer. Despite loving the DLC and that being my favorite area of the Citadel in any Bioware game, the continual breaking of the fourth wall got old very quickly.