72 réponses à ce sujet

[GreyVsGray]

Just to reiterate to Slogbarg:

Scars are by no means an RPG requirement. Some people like making scars in CC if possible and others like having scars come through more dynamic means.

Having a scar function in a CC and dynamic scars occur in game is extremely strange considering one nulls the other.

A toggle for scarring of a dynamic nature is the best possible route.

Arguing, despite what politicians say, is not insulting a person with different opinions. I agree against having dynamic scars for a person I make in game because that destroys my whole CC thing. Let us toggle it, give us a preset character, or do nothing on the subject.

Games with CC are usually long as crap and it's kind of dumb to not be comfortable staring at somebody you made in a CC because a random person said deal with it.

[Stiler]

 

lol I REALLY need to read the whole thread before I reply to someone heh.

[Slogbarg]

*slow claps* Yay insults. That's how you get your points across.

 

When a character creator is offered to me I create my own personal character what I envision what this character to be. I don't want BioWare saying "You know when you fought that dragon? Yeah... you lost your right leg and now you have to use a metal leg" 

 

Random scarring is good only for characters that have a fixed appearance if you do it on a created character then what is the point of creating it in the first place if they're going to add random scars to your character?

 

I am sorry if you feel insulted by my post as that was not my intention but it does sound like you are more concerned with the appearance of your character than you are with dynamic storytelling and if that be the case I was merely saying that perhaps you would be happier with a game that focuses on this aspect alone.

 

 

That would be a wonderful implementation. Because it is optional (and awesome).

 

But they objected to the other poster's lack of point while throwing insults. Your post is great because it provides concrete examples and potential implementations.

 

 

Personally I like to let people think for themselves, of course I could give you a thousand possible implmentations but I would prefer to let you guys use that grey matter between your ears and come to the conclusions yourselves, perhaps I expect too much from most of you?

[Slogbarg]

Just to reiterate to Slogbarg:

Scars are by no means an RPG requirement. Some people like making scars in CC if possible and others like having scars come through more dynamic means.

Having a scar function in a CC and dynamic scars occur in game is extremely strange considering one nulls the other.

A toggle for scarring of a dynamic nature is the best possible route.

Arguing, despite what politicians say, is not insulting a person with different opinions. I agree against having dynamic scars for a person I make in game because that destroys my whole CC thing. Let us toggle it, give us a preset character, or do nothing on the subject.

Games with CC are usually long as crap and it's kind of dumb to not be comfortable staring at somebody you made in a CC because a random person said deal with it.

 

Scars are an RPG requirement? That is what you got from my post? It is not the scars themselves but what they represent, it is the same thing that the leveling up and experience mechanics are supposed to represent and did represent before game developers started introducing bogus crap like level scaling.

 

Of course with so many definitions of RPG some might agree or disagree but I have always felt that a cRPG should be about the player defining the role of his character over the course of the journey which is centered around character growth, scars are merely a visual representation of the experiences and lessons learned along the way, they are mementos from our past and events we may or may not want to remember.

[Dio Demon]

I am sorry if you feel insulted by my post as that was not my intention but it does sound like you are more concerned with the appearance of your character than you are with dynamic storytelling and if that be the case I was merely saying that perhaps you would be happier with a game that focuses on this aspect alone.

 

 

 

 

Personally I like to let people think for themselves, of course I could give you a thousand possible implmentations but I would prefer to let you guys use that grey matter between your ears and come to the conclusions yourselves, perhaps I expect too much from most of you?

See that chip on your shoulder? No? That's because it has replaced your head.

[Slogbarg]

See that chip on your shoulder? No? That's because it has replaced your head.

 

I am not sure how that is a productive contribution to the the thread, have I offended you somehow?

[GreyVsGray]

Scars are an RPG requirement? That is what you got from my post? It is not the scars themselves but what they represent, it is the same thing that the leveling up and experience mechanics are supposed to represent and did represent before game developers started introducing bogus crap like level scaling.

Of course with so many definitions of RPG some might agree or disagree but I have always felt that a cRPG should be about the player defining the role of his character over the course of the journey which is centered around character growth, scars are merely a visual representation of the experiences and lessons learned along the way, they are mementos from our past and events we may or may not want to remember.

Just wanted to say that level scaling is a very viable thing that can help keep games from getting easy through grinding. Plus, sometimes you need scaling.

If you've ever beaten Gold Hands in Persona 4 before you got a new party member, you'll know why scaling would be useful.

Poor Kanji. Everyone else was 35 and you 25..

[Slogbarg]

Just wanted to say that level scaling is a very viable thing that can help keep games from getting easy through grinding. Plus, sometimes you need scaling.

If you've ever beaten Gold Hands in Persona 4 before you got a new party member, you'll know why scaling would be useful.

Poor Kanji. Everyone else was 35 and you 25..

 

Level scaling is a crutch, at best you can use it to cover up a poorly designed aspect or encounter in your game but if you are going to rely heavily on level scaling you might as well just do away with the leveling up and experience.

[hellbiter88]

like the free mirror in the black emporium dlc?

 

yeah exactly

[Nashimura]

Yeah the Fable series seems to be the only video game series that seems to capture the idea of what a true cRPG should be about, while the Fable series does get a lot of things wrong it does have the right idea and there are a lot of great of ideas there (even if they are poorly implemented) and I feel the series deserves more credit than it gets.

 

I cannot think of anything Fable gets right... if i want scars i will make them in CC, i don't want my character looking like a chopping board against my will. 

[Burricho]

You know Slogbarg, I think it would be great as an optional toggle but there's really no need to be such an ******* about everything.

[l7986]

Would love to see scars build up on my pc over time as long as it isn't to over the top. Its kind of annoying to end the game looking exactly as young and untouched as I did when I started it.

[Gileadan]

I'd actually take the iron hand, provided it would unlock a certain additional dialogue option in most conversations.

[Slogbarg]

I cannot think of anything Fable gets right...

 

Probably because you have closed your mind and do not wish to see, I know the Fable series and Peter Molyneux can be faulted for a great many things but only a fool would close their minds and blind themselves to their more redeeming qualities. Wisdom can often be found in the most unlikely of places and while I know it's flaws make people less likely to want to heed that wisdom if you look past the flaws you will still there is a lot that there is still a lot the Fable series can teach a lot of modern RPGs.

 

 

You know Slogbarg, I think it would be great as an optional toggle but there's really no need to be such an ******* about everything.

 

How am I being what that starred out word (I assume since it is starred out it is not very nice which would make you a hypocrite for calling me it) says? I am merely trying to open your minds to new ideas and concepts and engaging in discussion about an idea that I feel would be beneficial to the RPG genre as a whole. I had no idea that presenting new ideas for discussion was considered being an *******?

[Lamppost In Winter]

 OP, it's not a bad idea, but you are being passive-aggressive to the people who don't like it. If someone doesn't like the idea, it doesn't necessarily mean that they value the appearance of their character over storytelling, or want to play "Barbie makeover". I wouldn't mind such a mechanic, but I can see why people wouldn't like it. Personally, I don't really need the visual reminder that my character's seen battle.

[sangy]

Huh?!

 

I have no issue with people's odd likes and dislikes, but hopefully they won't reach mainstream in gaming.  I'd be pretty pissed off having to use a two handed sword with one arm. 

 

I totally thought this thread was going to be about making hard choices and sticking to them.  Way off. 

[Slogbarg]

 OP, it's not a bad idea, but you are being passive-aggressive to the people who don't like it. If someone doesn't like the idea, it doesn't necessarily mean that they value the appearance of their character over storytelling, or want to play "Barbie makeover". I wouldn't mind such a mechanic, but I can see why people wouldn't like it. Personally, I don't really need the visual reminder that my character's seen battle.

 

I know the idea is not for everyone and I fully respect that others have different tastes, if these people value the appearance of their character over dynamic storytelling then there is nothing wrong with that and I fully understand why such an idea would not go down well with them, I understand that many people play different games for different reasons and there is nothing wrong with that.

 

Not sure where you are getting the passive-aggressive tone from, personally I think you must be imagining it.

[Lamppost In Winter]

 My problem is that you keep saying that if somebody doesn't want this feature, that they "value the appearance of their character over dynamic storytelling". The two aren't mutually exclusive. If somebody doesn't want their character's appearance to change without their input, it doesn't mean that's all they care about.
 

[Slogbarg]

 My problem is that you keep saying that if somebody doesn't want this feature, that they "value the appearance of their character over dynamic storytelling". The two aren't mutually exclusive. If somebody doesn't want their character's appearance to change without their input, it doesn't mean that's all they care about.
 

 

Is there something wrong with valuing character appearance over dynamic storytelling? If that is what they like then who are you to tell them that they are wrong? Personally I don't but I am not arrogant enough to suggest that anyone who does not share my opinion must not mean what they are saying, perhaps you should worry less about seeing tones that aren't there and worry about your own prejudices.

 

Obviously they care more about one than the other.

[Yomond]

Fable was okay I only played the first one. my guy end up looking like he tried to be intimate with a thresher combine but hey whatever.

 

Thing is it was just cosmetic.  He aged and got all scars and grey hair but it didn't change anything and nobody else aged. nothing else changed. in the end it was a gimmick. YMMV but i don't feel it added much to the over all experience. People change in a lot of different ways over time and i'm not sure that can be convincingly conveyed just by re-texturing an in game model.

 

You could argue Fable was trying for something different. How you as the player affected the growth of the fixed protagonist was really the theme. that doesn't mean other games need a similar feature. Different games are different, different players are different. some sandwiches have mustard others have jelly. there is no right answer.

[Bekkael]

No thanks.

 

Character creation and roleplay are for each individual to choose what they prefer for how they envision their character. Just because my character has been through some tough things doesn't mean she needs to be riddled with scars or missing limbs. Personally, I've had 2 surgeries and given birth 9 times in the past 20 years...my scars are almost non-existant. If you want to see what I look like, click the twitter link in my signature. I've handled serious pain in my time, and I'm a very tough person, but maybe I don't look that way? That can be true for lots of people. My husband was in the South African military during some very challenging times and he isn't scarred or maimed either. *shrug*

 

I don't really understand how being scarred or losing limbs equates to realism in a fantasy RPG.

[Nashimura]

Probably because you have closed your mind and do not wish to see, I know the Fable series and Peter Molyneux can be faulted for a great many things but only a fool would close their minds and blind themselves to their more redeeming qualities. Wisdom can often be found in the most unlikely of places and while I know it's flaws make people less likely to want to heed that wisdom if you look past the flaws you will still there is a lot that there is still a lot the Fable series can teach a lot of modern RPGs.

 

That took a lot of words and still did not actually say anything about what redeeming features Fable supposedly has. 

 

Let me know what they are, maybe i have over looked them after playing all 3 games, is it holding hands? Being about to fart on command? The dog? Having to open boxes to spend xp? What is actually good about them?

[Burricho]

Sometimes I wonder if you people would be happier playing "Barbie Makeover Party" than an actual RPG

 

 

So basically you just want scars to be meaningless facial decorations rather than dynamic signs of character growth and development? That is fine and I know the idea I propose is not going to be liked by those who play RPGs more for their dress up aspects and plastic surgery features than their stories and cant bear seeing anything bad happen to their Mary Sue Handsome McGee character unless they themselves will it but I prefer more dynamic stories where my character can change in unexpected ways.

Nope, not passive aggressive at all. Sorry, my bad. You do not sound remotely like an arseholeee

[funmachine]

Because your other fleshy one was cut off in battle! So yeah with character growth being the core staple of what the CRPGs should be about shouldn't our character gain the scars over the journey representing the lessons and experiences that were learnt the hard way? Would you like to see characters lose a hand only to have it replaced by one of animated stone or iron or acquire the scars over the course of the journey earned through battle?

 

I like the idea, but nothing too extreme for me such as losing limbs though. I'd prefer something more along the lines of the Batman Arkham series where your suit gets increasingly tattered over the course of the game because of all the (story-related) fights you go through. As long as it's nothing too over-the-top I would be down with this. Of course, that might not be easy to implement with all the visual customization available.

[Slogbarg]

Fable was okay I only played the first one. my guy end up looking like he tried to be intimate with a thresher combine but hey whatever.

 

Thing is it was just cosmetic.  He aged and got all scars and grey hair but it didn't change anything and nobody else aged. nothing else changed. in the end it was a gimmick. YMMV but i don't feel it added much to the over all experience. People change in a lot of different ways over time and i'm not sure that can be convincingly conveyed just by re-texturing an in game model.

 

You could argue Fable was trying for something different. How you as the player affected the growth of the fixed protagonist was really the theme. that doesn't mean other games need a similar feature. Different games are different, different players are different. some sandwiches have mustard others have jelly. there is no right answer.

 

You are looking at what fable did but not the vision behind it, I am not suggesting that anyone take tips from Fable in terms of implementation but rather look at what it was trying to do and consider how its ideas could be better implemented, they had the right idea of what a cRPG should be about (at least in my opinion) and there are some good ideas there even if they are poorly implemented.

 

To me character growth should be an essential part of the cRPG, it is what leveling and experience was supposed to represent before level scaling and DBZ style health and attribute levels turned it into a mere gimmick, scars are a visual representation of character growth and the experiences gained along the way. A hero is not merely created but forged by the journey.

 

 

 

 

 

Think back to Dragon Age 2 and how despite the game taking place over 10 years neither Kirkwall or Hawke had changed even the slightest, do you honestly believe that the game would not have benefited from allowing the city and Hawke him/herself to grow over the years along with the people and his/her companions?