136 réponses à ce sujet

[Obadiah]

...
So leadership never mattered to me, what mattered to me was what kind of character I was playing and what his/her mindset was.

Though I think the Krogan are better off under Wrex, leadership does not matter to me either. The Genophage was released in desperation to stop the Krogan. We haven't been desperate to stop them for over 1000 years. The Genophage stopped being useful long ago, and I always cure it.

There are other ways of managing the Krogan if they become a problem (previosly mentioned).

Also, what's with the mispelling of Genophage in this thread's title?

[RatThing]

Wrex is a krogan. If he wasn't a strong warrior, and didn't have a past that reflected that, the krogan he's trying to unite wouldn't even listen to him, and probably would have killed him a long time ago. And he's not gonna unite the clans by handing out flowers to everyone either. It's the way he talks about the krogan after the cure that makes him different from Wreav. Seems like Wrex will try to co-exist with everyone else in the galaxy. Wreav ... not so much. There are no guarantees, and Wrex may indeed lead his people to war someday, but he'll at least be open to another way first. That's how I look at Wrex. 

 

Of course, Wrex is a typical Krogan. That's why I don't see him much different than Wreav.Talk is cheap, and I don`t even rule out that he means what he says. But it seems to me that it doesn't even matter. Like I said, his natural response to conflicts was always violence. In politics he doesn't always gets what he wants. If Virmire and Sur'Kesh is the way he handles things, I reckon he`ll lead the Krogans to war sooner or later. He may want peace but he needs war. That's how I see Wrex. Plus, even if I didn't, it wouldn't matter. Sooner or later Wrex wouldn't be around, but the Krogans would still have an astronomic birth rate and be inherently violent.

 

Note that I'm more or less neutral on the Genophage. I just don't think that if you look at the topic logically, leadership would solve the problem.

[SporkFu]

Of course, Wrex is a typical Krogan. That's why I don't see him much different than Wreav.Talk is cheap, and I don`t even rule out that he means what he says. But it seems to me that it doesn't even matter. Like I said, his natural response to conflicts was always violence. In politics he doesn't always gets what he wants. If Virmire and Sur'Kesh is the way he handles things, I reckon he`ll lead the Krogans to war sooner or later. He may want peace but he needs war. That's how I see Wrex. Plus, even if I didn't, it wouldn't matter. Sooner or later Wrex wouldn't be around, but the Krogans would still have an astronomic birth rate and be inherently violent.

Note that I'm more or less neutral on the Genophage. I just don't think that if you look at the topic logically, leadership would solve the problem.

Sur'kesh was just, in Wrex's own words, "good old-fashioned krogan hot air. If it was real they'd be dead." Anything that happened before he became leader of Urdnot and tried to unite the clans can't be held against him in a situation like the genophage cure. Not dismissed entirely but not used to damn him out of hand. Besides, if Wrex survives Virmire it's because he backed down, where a "typical krogan" likely wouldn't have.

[XxproknifaxX]

I'm not really sure why people don't want to cure the genophage with Wreav in charge. Yeah sure, he might start another galactic war but I'm sure he wouldn't attack Humans, particularly considering Cmdr. Shepard, a human, cured the genophage. Who cares for the other races anyway, considering Turians,Asari and Salarians bring it upon themselves...

[Valmar]

I'm not really sure why people don't want to cure the genophage with Wreav in charge. Yeah sure, he might start another galactic war but I'm sure he wouldn't attack Humans, particularly considering Cmdr. Shepard, a human, cured the genophage. Who cares for the other races anyway, considering Turians,Asari and Salarians bring it upon themselves...

 

Whoa. It's sentiments like this that lead to groups like Terra Nova and Cerberus. Lol.

 

Yeah, who cares if they get back their numbers and bring a vengeful war down on the galaxy. They'll probably focus on the aliens anyway so who cares if they get slaughtered by raging unleashed beasts of war with bloodlust. They probably had it coming anyway. Being alien's and all. Plus with any luck they'll all take each other out so humanity can come out on top. The very definition of humanity, wouldn't you say?

 

Certainly though they wouldn't attack us. Afterall, humanity is responsible for curing the genophage. I mean, sure, we didn't make it or fight for it or advocate it or even suggest it... but a human delivered the salarian to the place where he needed to be to make it happen. So thats a score for us. Nevermind the salarians who made it, krogan females who endured for it or the turians who demanded it. Humanity #1!

[von uber]

Who cares for the other races anyway, considering Turians,Asari and Salarians bring it upon themselves...

At first I thought it was massively, but then realised there was no mention of miranda nor of how intelligent and successful the poster was.

[themikefest]

I'm not really sure why people don't want to cure the genophage with Wreav in charge. Yeah sure, he might start another galactic war but I'm sure he wouldn't attack Humans, particularly considering Cmdr. Shepard, a human, cured the genophage. Who cares for the other races anyway, considering Turians,Asari and Salarians bring it upon themselves...

I've cured it twice with Wreav in charge. Once with him and Eve alive and again with Eve dead and Wreav by himsxelf, otherwise I don't cure the genophage and with Eve dead, Mordin or Padok Wiks live

[Bardox9]

I find the very idea of curing the Genophage to be completely insane given the Krogan mentality and history to date. Wrex is my bud and gotta love you some Grunt, but for a decision like this, you can't let personal feelings trump rational judgement. It too important.

 

I have cured it just to see what happens, but I can't bring myself to believe that it turns out well in the future. So, on my main Shep, I kill Wrex on Virmir, destroy the data on Tuchanka, and with Wreav in charge and Eve dead you can convince Mordin to walk away and join the Crucible team.

 

I hate to use a "greater good" argument, but... well... For galactic safety and stablity, the very purpose of the Spectre, the Genophage must remain in place for the sake of all. Including the Krogan themselves.

[Vazgen]

I find the very idea of curing the Genophage to be completely insane given the Krogan mentality and history to date. Wrex is my bud and gotta love you some Grunt, but for a decision like this, you can't let personal feelings trump rational judgement. It too important.

 

I have cured it just to see what happens, but I can't bring myself to believe that it turns out well in the future. So, on my main Shep, I kill Wrex on Virmir, destroy the data on Tuchanka, and with Wreav in charge and Eve dead you can convince Mordin to walk away and join the Crucible team.

 

I hate to use a "greater good" argument, but... well... For galactic safety and stablity, the very purpose of the Spectre, the Genophage must remain in place for the sake of all. Including the Krogan themselves.

Do you kill the rachni? I view the the rachni as an important factor of stopping krogan from future expansions. Kill the queen and krogans have no match. Sabotage the cure and now rachni get the upper hand. An ending slide showing rachni ruling Tuchanka if genophage is not cured is quite consistent with this.

[Bardox9]

I don't save the Queen either time on my main shep. Again, goes against the stated purpose of the Spectre. The Rachni are suppose to be extinct. Reintroducing them into the galaxy would destabilize and endangers the rest of galactic civilization. Especially with the Leviathans, who I think caused the "sour yellow note" from the Rachni wars, still around.

 

I destroy the Gether as well. Not in the Geth/Quarian war, but with the Destroy ending. Assuming that it actually does destroy them as star kid says it will. I personally don't believe anything that little turd says. I make peace in the Geth/Quarian war just so the Geth can show the Quarians how to accelerate their adaptation via their enviro-suits. Once more for the same stated reason, galactic safety and stability. The Quarians are apart of galactic civilization. The Geth are not, plus with just a few lines of code altered, they could turn on organics again.

[Display Name Owner]

I'd even go so far as to say curing the Genophage with Wrex and Eve is a dangerous idea. Maybe the Krogan living today don't deserve to suffer for their ancestor's antics, but then again the rest of the galaxy doesn't really deserve to suffer because of the Krogan now. I mean, the ending tiles make it clear that everything works out wonderfully well, but if you put some actual thought in and treat it realistically is not nearly that simple. There are still tons of Krogan that want to crush, kill, destroy, either for payback or because it's just in their nature. If you're relying on two individuals to keep all that in check then it's a pretty tenuous situation isn't it? 

 

And Wrex isn't any saint either. The thing is the Krogan expand too rapidly, and neither Wrex nor Eve give any indication that they've given a second's thought to that issue. It's one thing on Tuchanka when they're being killed off by each other and the environment, but on nice safe worlds they'll go mad. It's kind of grim to say, but if they actually became a peace-loving race that would make the matter even worse unless they do what the Salarians do. The Salarians have a high birth rate as well, but they have a system to deal with it. But sooner or later, space will become an issue and at least some Krogan are likely to go the old fashioned way of handling it.

 

But yeah, curing it with Wreav is beyond stupid.

[n7stormreaver]

*snip*

Violent Krogan bunch just may kill Wrex and throw his ideas into dumphole starting another war. 

[Valmar]

@Bardo

 

You kill Wrex on virmire and destroy the data just to get the best sabotage outcome. You use the Leviathan's as one justification for committing genocide on an entire species. You make peace with the geth specifically so they help the quarian's immune system.

 

Do you headcanon your Shepard as being from the future or just extremely omniscient? You're basing a lot of important decisions off what the results will be. You and I have two very different play styles. I always make the choice my Shepard would make, not what I know as the player.

 

 

The Salarians have a high birth rate as well, but they have a system to deal with it. But sooner or later, space will become an issue and at least some Krogan are likely to go the old fashioned way of handling it.

 

 

 

Plus the Krogan live for hundreds of years. Infact, one could even argue that krogan are immortal like the Leviathans. Has there ever been a known account of a krogan dying of natural causes? Salarian's can offset their birthrate easier with the fact that they only live for like fifty years. The genophage was the right call. It made their birthrate less insanely high. I suspect the rachni will get their own version of the genophage eventually. Who knows, the krogan and rachni might team up because of it and get revenge. That'd be something to see.

 

[Obadiah]

As an interesting aside, from all the reasons I see in this thread for maintaining the Genophage, this is why I think the Krogan had the right idea trying to force Shepard and the Salarians to deploy a cure. If they didn't when they had the opportunity, it was just never going to happen. If the Krogan built up natural resistance on their own, then the Genophage would get modified. If they found a cure on their own, it would have been sabotaged. Might as well use blackmail and extortion while the opportunity is there if the powers-that-be would rather just use them as cannon fodder and wipe them out.

[Vazgen]

I wonder what does sabotaging the cure accomplish? So the genophage still stays in effect? In that case krogans are not that big of a buff for the war effort. Their numbers are a key to their strength.

[Farangbaa]

I wonder what does sabotaging the cure accomplish? So the genophage still stays in effect? In that case krogans are not that big of a buff for the war effort. Their numbers are a key to their strength.

 

Their current numbers will have to suffice regardless. It's not like they poop out full grown, adult Krogan who're instantly ready for battle.

 

They desire the cure to replenish after the Reaper war. And to undo the injustice done to them (from their perspective, not saying it's mine)

[n7stormreaver]

I wonder what does sabotaging the cure accomplish? So the genophage still stays in effect? In that case krogans are not that big of a buff for the war effort. Their numbers are a key to their strength.

 

There is still 2 billion krogan and they wouldn't increase that number anytime soon even by curing genophage. It's not used to gather army, even krogan don't grow up that fast. 

[Vazgen]

There is still 2 billion krogan and they wouldn't increase that number anytime soon even by curing genophage. It's not used to gather army, even krogan don't grow up that fast. 

So the genophage still stays in effect? Should be quite easy to figure that out, especially since krogan will become very "aroused" once the news spread...

[n7stormreaver]

So the genophage still stays in effect? Should be quite easy to figure that out, especially since krogan will become very "aroused" once the news spread...

 

Wrex figures that out and comes to kill Shepard.

 

Wreav is... not as smart. 

[von uber]

Krogan birth rate suffers from rule of cool.

[Vazgen]

Wrex figures that out and comes to kill Shepard.

 

Wreav is... not as smart. 

Wreav (and every other krogan out there) should be dumb as bricks not to notice that. I thought the cure would work only for one generation and then fail.

[Valmar]

I wonder what does sabotaging the cure accomplish? So the genophage still stays in effect? In that case krogans are not that big of a buff for the war effort. Their numbers are a key to their strength.

 

First off the cure seemingly is only on Tuchunka. Also since the shroud is blowing up one might be able to say that it only worked once. So the cure isn't STILL in the air, it was a one-shot chump. So only krogan on tuchunka during the cure dispersal are cured. Even if all Krogan in the galaxy were cured instantly, so what?

 

What does sabotage accomplish? The salarians. The salarian fleets. The salarian's have some of the most cutting-edge, high-tech ships in the galaxy. We're fighting /reapers/ which are giant sentient starships. Even if we had hundreds of worlds filled to the brim with krogan they can't do much against the reapers. Great for protecting the surface from ground troops but the reapers could bombard them from space. The krogan don't have any kind of fleet.

 

What does the cure accomplish? It makes Wrex happy. Sure, it does wonders AFTER the war but nothing for it right then. The reaper war didn't even last a year. Even if all the Krogan popped out babies on day one they'd only be a year old. Their numbers rise fast but it takes time for an infant to grow into to a warrior. Ultimately the actual cure did /nothing/ for the war effort. Though, in fairness, this is from a player perspective. Had the war lasted as long as the prothean (generations) the krogan birthrate would had helped.

 

 

 

Also, just as a quick clarification I'm not really against the genophage being cured. I just think it should had been regulated. Is giving the cure to krogan like clan Weyrloc really the wisest of moves? There are a lot of krogan that hold a grudge and would want revenge. I don't think ALL krogan should be cured just because Wrex happens to be not-so-terrible or because Eve is peaceful. Imagine the horror if this cure makes them immune to Genophage V2. Next time our only way of stopping the krogan would be flat out genocide.

[Vazgen]

By "what does sabotage accomplish?" I meant how it works. I'm well aware of the benefits for both choices. 

I bet most (if not all) krogan females are on Tuchanka. Thus, I think, the cure applies to all krogan. 

I cure the genophage only if rachni are saved. They can serve as a kind of a balancing factor for the krogan, given the bad blood between them.

If I kill the queen, I sabotage the cure. Krogans will rebuild much faster than any race around there, making them able to dictate terms and rule the galaxy

[Valmar]

By "what does sabotage accomplish?" I meant how it works. I'm well aware of the benefits for both choices. 

I bet most (if not all) krogan females are on Tuchanka. Thus, I think, the cure applies to all krogan. 

I cure the genophage only if rachni are saved. They can serve as a kind of a balancing factor for the krogan, given the bad blood between them.

If I kill the queen, I sabotage the cure. Krogans will rebuild much faster than any race around there, making them able to dictate terms and rule the galaxy

 

The genophage, I believe, effects both genders. Grunt, for example, has traces of it in his DNA and EDI say's its present in all krogan. This could just mean the male have the trait to pass on to their children, however. There were male test subjects for the cure data; though that could just be coincidental - a way to spare the valuable females the dangers of earlier prototypes. Males do fight for fertile females. Yet there is also the krogan that had two sons and apparently it was a big deal. So maybe they both suffer from it but one having 'less' of it increases both their odds. Like russian roulette with two guns instead of one. If one gun has less bullets than the other, your odds are better for survival. If that makes sense.

[Kurt M.]

Pretty much agree with the OP. You must have no heart to sabotage the cure with Wrex and Eve alive.

 

Wrex alone would've pulled it, too. Eve alone...I kinda doubt it (that Wreav seems like a traitorous bastard).

 

And I agree sabotaging the cure is mandatory with Wreav alone.