136 réponses à ce sujet

[n7stormreaver]

Pretty much agree with the OP. You must have no heart to sabotage the cure with Wrex and Eve alive.

 

Wrex alone would've pulled it, too. Eve alone...I kinda doubt it (that Wreav seems like a traitorous bastard).

 

And I agree sabotaging the cure is mandatory with Wreav alone.

 

I might have no heart, but i think with my brain. Not all Krogan are like Wrex, Wrex is no immortal, Wrex is not invincible, Wrex can't control everyone. Krogan are danger, no matter who's currently commanding one very strong clan. 

 

I don't believe you can make race like Krogan peaceful, especially by giving them unparalleled birth rate. For example, Blizzard already did same with Orc in Warcraft (let's not pretend that Krogan are not copy-pasted Orcs) and it didn't end well. 

 

Also Wreav is not "traitorous" - he says it directly that time of reckoning is coming soon. He doesn't betray anyone. 

[Kurt M.]

I might have no heart, but i think with my brain. Not all Krogan are like Wrex, Wrex is no immortal, Wrex is not invincible, Wrex can't control everyone. Krogan are danger, no matter who's currently commanding one very strong clan. 

 

I don't believe you can make race like Krogan peaceful, especially by giving them unparalleled birth rate. For example, Blizzard already did same with Orc in Warcraft (let's not pretend that Krogan are not copy-pasted Orcs) and it didn't end well. 

 

Also Wreav is not "traitorous" - he says it directly that time of reckoning is coming soon. He doesn't betray anyone. 

 

Not all krogan are like Wreav either.

 

All races have had it's pioneers, whom without them even we humans would be still at the Stone Age, or close enough. Should the krogan be deprived of that? Don't they deserve a *real* chance, and not the one the salarians gave to them?

 

And I honestly don't believe that Wreav wouldn't -permanently- remove Eve out of the scene if she meant problem enough. That's "treason" enough for me.

[Valmar]

Statistically speaking more krogan are like Wreav than they are like Wrex.

 

If you read up on the lore about the krogan you see that their 'natural' and 'normal' behavior is very much more in the lines of Wreav than it is in Wrex. What was it that Eve called him? A mutant? Hell even Wrex tells you that the krogan are violent and that its in their nature, at some point. The krogan don't try to pretend they're this misunderstood species. They fully embrace what they are - many of them seemingly with much glee.

 

If anything the genophage has probably done more good for them evolving past their violent nature than anything else. They start to value life now that its something precious and rare. You hear the krogan in ME2 talking about how he might be a dad and it was a pretty touching moment, imo. Something you wouldn't had likely had if krogan were back to having hundreds of damn kids. Hell, even look at Wrex; I doubt he'd be the krogan he is today if not for the genophage.

 

Or look at Okeer's speech as an example. He says that life is deemed so precious to krogan now that every newborn is cuddled. He believes the weak should die and the strong should live, with no room for mushy crap. Personally I think the krogan viewing any kind of life as precious and showing any kind of love other than the love for violence is a good thing. That they view their offspring as precious and cuddle them is a huge improvement. That along with Wrex's leadership gave me more hope for the Krogan in ME2 then the genophage cure ever did.

 

Honestly I think the cure could potentially ruin everything as far as having the krogan progressive to become more than just violent bloodthirsty beasts. It sucks that Mordin modified the genophage because that was really the best solution. Having krogan gradually adapt and the birthrates slowly rise. Not suddenly flip a switch and cure everyone instantly. The genophage was the right call. The genophage modification was not, in my opinion.

[Farangbaa]

It's pretty irrelevant what the Krogan might do with a horde, as their actions would be limited to Tuchanka.

 

Again, for like the 10th time on this forum:

 

The Krogan have no ships. NOTHING. No cruisers, no transporters, dreadnaughts, destroyers, nothing, zilch, nada. At best they have some shuttles. They barely have the means to build any of these as well.

 

Now we can either assume the galaxy goes full retard once more and after the Reaper war just lets the Krogan be.. or that they do the logical thing, and keep Tuchanka under high surveillance. They wouldn't want to be surprised by a horde, right? This makes it pretty hard, if not impossible, for the Krogan to even build a single transporter to transport their troops off the planet. What are they gonna do? Call the Turians for transport? The Salarians for dreadnaughts?

 

They would be stuck on Tuchanka with their horde; If they want to breed like rabbits and kill themselves that way, that's their choice. But there's zero need to articially keep the viable birthrates of a species down if that species can't even leave it's own planet in signifacant numbers. They can only harm themselves, which is just perfect: they can sort out how to control their population numbers while they calm the *bleep* down.

 

The Krogan Rebellions stem from a time in which the Krogans did have their own transportation and their own fleet capable of waging war. They have none of these things and these things are vital for them to be a problem to anyone but themselves. The galaxy only needs to worry about them gaining the ability to construct a fleet, which can be countered by simple surveillance and bombing of any factories should they arise (or obtain one by other ways... I doubt the Krogan can buy a fleet though, who's gonna sell them anything?). 

 

Can they breed billions of Krogan super fast? Yes

Is this a problem to anyone but the Krogan themselves? Nope.

[Vazgen]

They can wait a little, spread out and then start breeding 

[Valmar]

They can wait a little, spread out and then start breeding 

 

Plus with the reaper war going on they have krogan spread out all across the galaxy on many different worlds.

 

However the "they're all stuck on their homeworld anyway" perspective is interesting.

[Farangbaa]

They can wait a little, spread out and then start breeding 

 

Yeah, cause that's what the Krogans do; careful and deliberate deception.

 

They're just very big Salarians  

[n7stormreaver]

Okay, so 2 questions:

 

a ) How does the Blood Pack move around.

 

b ) How does the Urdnot Wrex\Wreav move around (gathering at Sur'Kesh Summit, Wrex coming to the Citadel for Shepard, Wrex coming to the Citadel to discuss Krogan Expansions) 

 

P.S. It doesn't have to do anything with the topic, but what happens if you sabotage the cure with Wrex and go to Citadel DLC right after Cerberus Coup. Will he still be present\talking about being "busy" with females? 

[Farangbaa]

a) shuttles or so I guess. Not unthinkable the Blood Pack owns a transporter ship or something. In the grander scheme of things though (second Krogan rebellions) this is unsubstantial

Borrowed a ship for transportation/Turian transport. By that points he's the official leader of the Krogan, it's not unthinkable a ship has been provided to him.

[n7stormreaver]

a) shuttles or so I guess. Not unthinkable the Blood Pack owns a transporter ship or something. In the grander scheme of things though (second Krogan rebellions) this is unsubstantial

Borrowed a ship for transportation/Turian transport. By that points he's the official leader of the Krogan, it's not unthinkable a ship has been provided to him.

 

My point: If Krogan have a way to move around, who the hell is going to stop them from colonizing planets? Unless Council Races are going to straight out bomb and wage war with Krogan, there is not much they can do. 

[RatThing]

It's pretty irrelevant what the Krogan might do with a horde, as their actions would be limited to Tuchanka.

 

Again, for like the 10th time on this forum:

 

The Krogan have no ships. NOTHING. No cruisers, no transporters, dreadnaughts, destroyers, nothing, zilch, nada. At best they have some shuttles. They barely have the means to build any of these as well.

 

 

Everyone you talk about the Krogans in the game seems to actually be worried about their role in the Galaxy if the genophage is cured. The Dalatrass of course, but also the primarch or Garrus. Liara also says after the genophage arc that people should get used to more Krogan influence on the galaxy. Of course you can question the logic of this (I do too) but it seems the writers want you to believe that the Krogans could have a second rebellion if they wanted to. (Then again, they wanted me to believe in the peaceful leader Wrex and I'm not bying it either).

[Obadiah]

My point: If Krogan have a way to move around, who the hell is going to stop them from colonizing planets? Unless Council Races are going to straight out bomb and wage war with Krogan, there is not much they can do.

I think the point is that, with just shuttles, the Krogan are not the overwhelming threat that they were during the Krogan Rebellions. Sure they can move, but they can't stand up to, say, orbital bombardments. And they run the risk of being blown out of the sky when entering space they're restricted from.

[Farangbaa]

Everyone you talk about the Krogans in the game seems to actually be worried about their role in the Galaxy if the genophage is cured. The Dalatrass of course, but also the primarch or Garrus. Liara also says after the genophage arc that people should get used to more Krogan influence on the galaxy. Of course you can question the logic of this (I do too) but it seems the writers want you to believe that the Krogans could have a second rebellion if they wanted to. (Then again, they wanted me to believe in the peaceful leader Wrex and I'm not bying it either).

Well yeah, that's true... most politicans are beyond stupid in the MEU though . I don't see how the Krogan are going to be a threat though, unless they learn to Cerberus-style crap out a complete and capable fleet in an instant. Something that would take other species years or decades to build. We have a cool little emoticon for that:



Also note that if they do wish to build a fleet against the wishes of the galaxy, they have little to no infrastructure to do so, and not the necessary tech to keep it a secret.

Not that they would keep it a secret, these guys love to boast.
 

My point: If Krogan have a way to move around, who the hell is going to stop them from colonizing planets? Unless Council Races are going to straight out bomb and wage war with Krogan, there is not much they can do.

Being able to move around is not the same as being able to contest other species for their homelands or colonies. They absolutey need a fleet to be a threat. They can colonize empty planets as much as they want to (something I doubt the short term thinking Krogan will do a lot of) and swell them with Krogan until the planet is about to burst, but without a fleet they are a treat to no one except themselves.

As long as the rest of the galaxy disallows them a fleet (either by open diplomacy or Salarian like sabotage), curing the Genophage is the best thing that can happen to the Krogan. This gives them the necessity to deal with their..eh.. biological issues or have nature run it's course. (read: invent birth control... which, if you give it a proper thought, is rather silly that it doesn't seem to exist...)

[Valmar]

 

P.S. It doesn't have to do anything with the topic, but what happens if you sabotage the cure with Wrex and go to Citadel DLC right after Cerberus Coup. Will he still be present\talking about being "busy" with females? 

 

Actually if you have the Citadel DLC I've heard you can skip killing Wrex. You have to avoid going to docking bay to board the normandy and instead only use the transport terminals. Because to get back on the Normandy is what triggers the cutscene of Wrex confronting you. Avoid getting that cutscene and it plays out like you cured the genophage in the sense that Wrex is none-the-wiser. I believe I saw this being discussed some in the ME wiki chat. Can't seem to find it now though, unfortunately.

 

Anyway, long as you don't board the Normandy through the docking bay you should be fine. If the claims of random people on the wiki are to be believed, anyway.

 

 

@Psychevore

 

I love your perspective on this. Very interesting stuff indeed. Makes me feel better about curing it.

[SporkFu]

If there is peace on Rannoch and the quarians return home, they're gonna have a whole bunch of ships for sale... just sayin' 

[Farangbaa]

If there is peace on Rannoch and the quarians return home, they're gonna have a whole bunch of ships for sale... just sayin'

Which Quarians?

Peace? Yeah, the Geth don't do civil war.

In all seriousness though: I doubt they'd sell to the Krogan. Unless they really like being the outcasts of the galaxy.

[SporkFu]

Which Quarians?

Peace? Yeah, the Geth don't do civil war.

In all seriousness though: I doubt they'd sell to the Krogan. Unless they really like being the outcasts of the galaxy.

Maybe they ally with the krogan instead? 

[Farangbaa]

You sadden me, Spork

But about curing the genophage:

Don't assume the galaxy is suddenly going to shower the Krogan with hugs once the Reaper war is over. They've played their part, but they're still Krogan, and the Salarians will never forget.

Aside from the, in my opinion, necessity to cure the genophage for the war against the Reapers because doing that brings in the Turians, there's another reason to do so. Again, in my opinion:

The Krogan have never really needed to deal with their ridiculous birth rates. After wastelanding their planet themselves, which you could argue is a result of their natural birth rates (and I would agree), the Salarians uplifted them, removing them from their natural shackles and using them for that same birth rate. Something that was already working against them was used as their biggest strength, so they did not have to deal with.

After that, the Krogan were allowed to grow unchecked as a reward/rehabilitation for their use (not that anyone had the authority to disallow them so, unless going for war) , and afterwards they were artificially shackled by the Genophage.

Do the right thing: cure the Genophage, hold them to Tuchanka, and let nature decide what happens with the Krogan.

[RatThing]

Actually if you have the Citadel DLC I've heard you can skip killing Wrex. You have to avoid going to docking bay to board the normandy and instead only use the transport terminals. Because to get back on the Normandy is what triggers the cutscene of Wrex confronting you. Avoid getting that cutscene and it plays out like you cured the genophage in the sense that Wrex is none-the-wiser. I believe I saw this being discussed some in the ME wiki chat. Can't seem to find it now though, unfortunately.

 

Anyway, long as you don't board the Normandy through the docking bay you should be fine. If the claims of random people on the wiki are to be believed, anyway.

 

 

However, afaik Wrex will definitely not be a part of the Citadel DLC if you sabotage the cure.

[SporkFu]

You sadden me, Spork

 LOL why? It's not as though the quarians have a history of doing the smartest things.

 

Turn your liveships into dreadnoughts and circumvent the treaty of Farixen? No probs, we'll apologize later.

Develop an AI that kicked them off their planet? Oops, it was an accident.

Murder the the geth for becoming self-aware? Well, you know, we didn't mean for them to become self-aware in the first place. 

 

So now they're back on Rannoch, building homes, learning to farm, etc. And along comes King Wrex and Queen Bakara to celebrate the end of the reaper war with their buddy Tali:

 

Wrex: Tali, it's been great partying it up with you here on Rannoch. Place looks fantastic by the way.

Tali: Gee thanks, Wrex. It's really great to be living on solid ground, you know? 

Wrex: Sure. Yeah. Be a shame to lose it again.

Bakara: Wrex!

Wrex: What?

Tali: What do you mean?

Wrex: Well... we kinda noticed you don't really need the whole migrant fleet anymore.

Tali: Uh oh. 

Wrex: Tali, the krogan would like to buy some of your ships.

Tali: But Wrex, you know Tuchanka has been demilitarized. 

Bakara: We know, Tali. Tuchanka has also become a little crowded. 

Wrex: Heh heh heh.

Bakara: We would like to buy some ships to transport some of our people to the new colony worlds we've been granted by the Council. 

Tali: I see. How many ships are we talking about?

Wrex: All of them.

Tali: Ha! Hahaha heehee. All of them... that's pretty funny, Wrex. 

Wrex *grins toothily*

Bakara *coughs politely* 

Tali: Uhh... you were joking, right? 

Wrex: Afraid not, Tali. Sooner or later, my people will need a fleet, so we can get around. You've got one you don't really need, right? 

Tali *dumbfounded* : Got one we don't really need....?

Bakara: We'd like to extend the hand of friendship to you, Tali. The krogan want to be your allies. 

Wrex: You don't want to be our enemies, do you? 

Tali: Ulp.

Wrex: Do you? 

Tali: I suppose not.

Wrex: Fantastic. Let's drink. 

[Reorte]

Curing the genophage seemed like a "we need the krogan now even if it means problems in the future" decision, simple as that.

[Vazgen]

Actually if you have the Citadel DLC I've heard you can skip killing Wrex. You have to avoid going to docking bay to board the normandy and instead only use the transport terminals. Because to get back on the Normandy is what triggers the cutscene of Wrex confronting you. Avoid getting that cutscene and it plays out like you cured the genophage in the sense that Wrex is none-the-wiser. I believe I saw this being discussed some in the ME wiki chat. Can't seem to find it now though, unfortunately.

 

Anyway, long as you don't board the Normandy through the docking bay you should be fine. If the claims of random people on the wiki are to be believed, anyway.

Do you mean using public transport terminals to return to the Normandy? I tried that and Wrex still confronted me

[ImaginaryMatter]

It's pretty irrelevant what the Krogan might do with a horde, as their actions would be limited to Tuchanka.

 

Again, for like the 10th time on this forum:

 

The Krogan have no ships. NOTHING. No cruisers, no transporters, dreadnaughts, destroyers, nothing, zilch, nada. At best they have some shuttles. They barely have the means to build any of these as well.

 

Now we can either assume the galaxy goes full retard once more and after the Reaper war just lets the Krogan be.. or that they do the logical thing, and keep Tuchanka under high surveillance. They wouldn't want to be surprised by a horde, right? This makes it pretty hard, if not impossible, for the Krogan to even build a single transporter to transport their troops off the planet. What are they gonna do? Call the Turians for transport? The Salarians for dreadnaughts?

 

They would be stuck on Tuchanka with their horde; If they want to breed like rabbits and kill themselves that way, that's their choice. But there's zero need to articially keep the viable birthrates of a species down if that species can't even leave it's own planet in signifacant numbers. They can only harm themselves, which is just perfect: they can sort out how to control their population numbers while they calm the *bleep* down.

 

The Krogan Rebellions stem from a time in which the Krogans did have their own transportation and their own fleet capable of waging war. They have none of these things and these things are vital for them to be a problem to anyone but themselves. The galaxy only needs to worry about them gaining the ability to construct a fleet, which can be countered by simple surveillance and bombing of any factories should they arise (or obtain one by other ways... I doubt the Krogan can buy a fleet though, who's gonna sell them anything?). 

 

Can they breed billions of Krogan super fast? Yes

Is this a problem to anyone but the Krogan themselves? Nope.

 

I think you're ignoring a few things. The Krogan aren't simply limited to Tuchunka, they were well spread out before the war and now there's several armies of them on various planets, including a few home worlds. Considering Tuchunka is still a barren, rock planet I don't see why they would all rush back when they can start up elsewhere.

 

Also, ships seem quite easy to come by in the Mass Effect universe and there are large sections of space that are not regulated by the Council.

[Probe Away]

'Genofage' would be a cool name for a Krogan hip hop group.  Although I would probably go a step further and add a 'y': Genofayge.

 

Like, Mwooooaaaarrrr, dawg.

[Probe Away]

On a more serious note:  In all 3 of my ME3 playthroughs I have cured the genophage, regardless of who is leading the Krogan.  The risk that the Krogan will discover the sabotage and withdraw their support from Palaven, thereby endangering Earth, is just too great.

 

Having the problem of a swelling Krogan population in the future at least means there IS a future.