I think he meant in a more direct narrative sense. The asari support after the coup you mention is just a bunch of EMS scores and little codex entries. Hardly anything to phone home about.
That's ALL the support anyone gives is; plus that 'hardly anything' is still more than the Salarians, even without the additional assets you can get.
Ironically Shep is in a situation where EVERY choice can be called necessary. Cure genophage because they need the turians. Sabotage it because they need the salarian fleets. Plus sabotage comes with the pretense of "you can get both!" Which is true in some playthroughs. It can be called necessary to take the risk to get both sides since you really do need EVERYONE for the war effort.
There are a lot of factors that tie into your EMS total after Tuchanka, and I dunno if I did the math right or not, but it appears that curing the genophage gains you 150 more EMS, at the absolute minimum, than sabotaging it.
I could be wrong. If someone else wants to do the math and prove it, it's all good, heh.
Does your 150 figure include the additional Salarian support?
Does your 150 figure include the additional Salarian support?
Ummm...
sic...semper...tyrana...
*cough*
There are a lot of factors that tie into your EMS total after Tuchanka, and I dunno if I did the math right or not, but it appears that curing the genophage gains you 150 more EMS, at the absolute minimum, than sabotaging it.
I could be wrong. If someone else wants to do the math and prove it, it's all good, heh.
I have to be honest here... I put zero lore-value in the EMS numbers. Lol.
Ummm...
sic...semper...tyrana...
*cough*
I like you.
I have to be honest here... I put zero lore-value in the EMS numbers. Lol.
Same here. Since I have all the DLC installed and always play through them each time I do a new game, I'd have to try pretty hard to not get whichever ending I want.
Asari selfish yea.They think the beacon they have will save them?
Rediciulos.
I have to be honest here... I put zero lore-value in the EMS numbers. Lol.
Poppycock! My MP vanguard team is worth more than all of Clan Urdnot!
Poppycock! My MP vanguard team is worth more than all of Clan Urdnot!
Elitist 
Just kidding. I'm terrible at the MP side of it. Used to play co-op Borderlands 2 with my brother, and I thought I did pretty well, but we talked about it recently and he was laughing at how he'd spend half the match reviving me. 
... bad habits from casual difficulty I guess. Yeah, that sounds good.
I never cure the genophage. The only time I did is for my Citadel play through and I wanted everyone at the party. Overall, from an exciting standpoint I love sabotaging the genophage cure. With Wrex alive or dead, it doesn't matter as both make for some pretty good drama.
With Wrex alive, you get to shoot Mordin and have a sad send off for his character trying to do what he believes to be right. Then you get a dramatic shoot out with Wrex on the Citadel. With him and Eve dead you get to have an inside scheming scene with Mordin. And you get a Shepard who is willing to do anything to fight the reapers and make any deals he deems needed to make it happen. Good stuff.
IMO, the whole cure the genophage while Wrex and Eve alive offers silly little contrive plot devices sprinkled with a massive dose of "appeal to the feels" logic to make it work. "Oh look, A trouble making Krogan that shows that the Krogan can't work together...oh he ded now, everything works out yay!"
Wrex is a good guy but I'm not going to count solely on him and Eve to squash thousands of years of Krogan genes and instincts regardless of what the game begs the player to believe.
What I'm trying to say is that the situation is much more complex than trapping them on Tuchunka to easily keep a vigilant watch on them there. The idea that any one can forcibly move them there to me is implausible given their extension across the galaxy and damning, given that the planet looks like it cannot support that much life on it. More than likely the Krogan are going to be living elsewhere, either on colonies that the Krogan representative is fighting for, where they currently exist, or somewhere like the Terminus systems where Council influence is practically non-existent. I think the political situation after the conflict is going to be too complex than to simply isolate them on Tuchunka.
The planet still hold billions of Krogans, and we've seen that it might be on the way back to supporting a lot more during the Tuchanka arch.
And confining them there might not be easy, but they can't be allowed to grow their population unchecked. It's simply not a viable life strategy for the galaxy. Even some Krogan, especially Wrex who seems smarter than the rest of the lot, should be able to understand this.They don't? Well tough luck, war will be necessary.
Their spread around the galaxy is not that big a problem if you ask me. (and any Krogan not on Tuchanka when the cure is dispersed aren't cured, btw, for what it matters) They are still without a fleet. What are they gonna do? Start a guerilla war? You bomb 'em. They start fights in the streets? You shoot 'em. Regardless, they will not be a threat to anything with an organized military, or even a good police force, without the ability to come together, organize and conduct proper war, for which they will need a fleet.
I don't cure the genophage because I like the Krogan. I cure it because I need them and the genophage is barbaric, but if they go back to their pre genophage antics I'll have no regrets wiping them off the face of the galaxy. They're getting a chance to solve their issues, they should take it.
Whatever shape the council takes after the war, the krogan are just as much heroes as anyone else left in the galaxy, probably more so than some. They'll be given colony rights somewhere. The turians at least will back them right the hell up when they want to colonize a planet or two. And if they're told they have to stay on Tuchanka, I wouldn't blame Wrex for starting another war, no matter how peaceful and diplomatic he was trying to be. That's what started the krogan rebellions in the first place, IIRC.
There are a lot of factors that tie into your EMS total after Tuchanka, and I dunno if I did the math right or not, but it appears that curing the genophage gains you 150 more EMS, at the absolute minimum, than sabotaging it.
I could be wrong. If someone else wants to do the math and prove it, it's all good, heh.
Only if Wrex is in charge. Sabotage is better when Wreave is in charge.
Poppycock! My MP vanguard team is worth more than all of Clan Urdnot!
I don't need clan Urdnot at all. I've had 0 Krogan war assets and still get the best ending.
Completely false. The Asari Science Team, Asari Second Fleet, Asari Sixth Fleet all become assets after the Citadel coup.
I wasn`t aware of this. All I remembered was the "cruel and unfortunate truth" speech the asari counselor gave me. It's been a while since I've played the game.
The planet still hold billions of Krogans, and we've seen that it might be on the way back to supporting a lot more during the Tuchanka arch.
And confining them there might not be easy, but they can't be allowed to grow their population unchecked. It's simply not a viable life strategy for the galaxy. Even some Krogan, especially Wrex who seems smarter than the rest of the lot, should be able to understand this.They don't? Well tough luck, war will be necessary.
Their spread around the galaxy is not that big a problem if you ask me. (and any Krogan not on Tuchanka when the cure is dispersed aren't cured, btw, for what it matters) They are still without a fleet. What are they gonna do? Start a guerilla war? You bomb 'em. They start fights in the streets? You shoot 'em. Regardless, they will not be a threat to anything with an organized military, or even a good police force, without the ability to come together, organize and conduct proper war, for which they will need a fleet.
I don't cure the genophage because I like the Krogan. I cure it because I need them and the genophage is barbaric, but if they go back to their pre genophage antics I'll have no regrets wiping them off the face of the galaxy. They're getting a chance to solve their issues, they should take it.
If they do start something it probably won't be in the immediate aftermath. They'll spread from Tuchunka, a planet that can barely support the 2 billion on it now. They'll settle elsewhere, grow in population, build infrastructure, etc. None of these are hostile actions and the galaxy probably won't do much to impede their growth, especially after such a devastating war or in far off places like the Terminus systems. The problem is though that the Krogan are a ticking time bomb, the genophage didn't remove their genetic disposition towards violence; maybe they'll adapt culturally, but they could just as easily not and the galaxy might not be ready for that.
And the Krogan aren't even needed, ground troops and military fleets are supposedly not going to win the war, so gathering them for an assault on Earth isn't going to help anything. The Salarians and their technological aptitude is going to be of greater use in getting that Crucible built. Plus, sabotaging the cure nets you everything anyway (at least until Wrex pulls the recordings between you and the Dalatrass out of his butt).
I think curing the genophage is a bit of a Pandora's box situation. Once you open it, you might not be able to close it again.
And the Krogan aren't even needed, ground troops and military fleets are supposedly not going to win the war, so gathering them for an assault on Earth isn't going to help anything. The Salarians and their technological aptitude is going to be of greater use in getting that Crucible built.
That's how I see it as well. The Krogan are a temporary band aid to the reaper problem, not a long term solution. They fight hard but you have do more than just fight hard and kill the enemy to win. You have to fight smart. Which is why I consider using the Salarians to be a better long term plan than the Krogan. In the worst case scenario the Crucible doesn't work and we have to spend decades fighting the reaper war. I believe the Salarians and probably the Geth would be the ones to come up with other solutions to eradicating them while the cured Krogan could end up getting bred and reaperized by the Reapers.
And the Krogan aren't even needed, ground troops and military fleets are supposedly not going to win the war, so gathering them for an assault on Earth isn't going to help anything. The Salarians and their technological aptitude is going to be of greater use in getting that Crucible built.
I agree with that sentiment but I will point out that it isn't actually krogan support for earth Shepard is after (even though he gets it with the cure). It was the turians who demanded the krogan ground support in exchange for them lending their fleet to humanities cause. I don't think it makes much sense when everything rides on space battles and the crucible but in all fairness to the turians the plot was never the best when it came to motivation. A whole lot of "Save earth!" speech instead of the far more critical "Build the crucible!" argument. Instead of struggling to fight a fight that cannot be won (ground war) focus on finishing the crucible as quickly as possible. No one had their priorities straight other than the Alliance, apparently.
Granted hindsight makes it easy to say the crucible solves all their problems but lets face it they were doomed any other way. By throwing support at the crucible immediately at least you get the chance to spare a lot of lives. Instead all the races seem to fight and struggle against this crazy idea, as if they have some better plan for dealing with the reapers.Then again, apparently Cerberus wasn't too far off with their control plan, so maybe there were other solutions. Still, the crucible was the only one I saw being suggested. I hope you enjoyed watching your planet burn, councilor. Sad and unfortunate truth, isn't it.
And the Krogan aren't even needed, ground troops and military fleets are supposedly not going to win the war, so gathering them for an assault on Earth isn't going to help anything. The Salarians and their technological aptitude is going to be of greater use in getting that Crucible built. Plus, sabotaging the cure nets you everything anyway (at least until Wrex pulls the recordings between you and the Dalatrass out of his butt).
To be fair, I do not think a single Salarian engineer is even mentioned working on the Crucible (aside from Mordin if you sabotage to cure). They only send military fleets and ground troops as well. As far as we know, only the geth, rachni, asari and volus helped building the crucible.
To be fair, I do not think a single Salarian engineer is even mentioned working on the Crucible (aside from Mordin if you sabotage to cure). They only send military fleets and ground troops as well. As far as we know, only the geth, rachni, asari and volus helped building the crucible.
Some ex-Cerberus people help as well as the Quarians
To be fair, I do not think a single Salarian engineer is even mentioned working on the Crucible (aside from Mordin if you sabotage to cure). They only send military fleets and ground troops as well. As far as we know, only the geth, rachni, asari and volus helped building the crucible.
The Dalatrass says she'll send Salarians to work on it, although you never actually get any War Assets in the Crucible section for doing so.
Ummm...
sic...semper...tyrana...
*cough*
+1 Radioactive cookie for you.
And the Krogan aren't even needed, ground troops and military fleets are supposedly not going to win the war, so gathering them for an assault on Earth isn't going to help anything. The Salarians and their technological aptitude is going to be of greater use in getting that Crucible built. Plus, sabotaging the cure nets you everything anyway (at least until Wrex pulls the recordings between you and the Dalatrass out of his butt).
This is where I disagree completely. Because not getting the Krogan equals not getting the Turians which pretty much equals utter defeat.
Like James mentions on that moon of Palaven; the Krogan are meat. Cannonfodder.
For the rest of your post, you're probably right. I'd still cure it though. If all else fails we could still neuter (most) them, or kill them. Both are much more humane solutions than having the majority of their offspring be stillborns.
And then there's what Bakara says: if the males go back to their old ways, the females will refuse to have children (which, apparanly, they can do... hey, birth control 
). These are just words though, but it gives me some hope.
This is where I disagree completely. Because not getting the Krogan equals not getting the Turians which pretty much equals utter defeat.
Like James mentions on that moon of Palaven; the Krogan are meat. Cannonfodder.
For the rest of your post, you're probably right. I'd still cure it though. If all else fails we could still neuter (most) them, or kill them. Both are much more humane solutions than having the majority of their offspring be stillborns.
And then there's what Bakara says: if the males go back to their old ways, the females will refuse to have children (which, apparanly, they can do... hey, birth control
I do not envy the poor souls tasked with snipping those quads.
I wonder if a genophage v2 would even work on them now that they've been cured.
Also its possible that they can't find a birth control that works on krogan. Maybe they adapted too quickly and the only option was the still-born approach. Speculation but I still fancy believing there was some reason why they went with the approach they did.
I do not envy the poor souls tasked with snipping those quads.
You probably have to snip more than once due to secondary and tertiary systems.
You probably have to snip more than once due to secondary and tertiary systems.
You forget, a bullet in the head solves everything
You forget, a bullet in the head solves everything
Given the context of the conversation:
Which head?
Retour en haut