419 réponses à ce sujet

[KainD]

 

I don't disagree. I would like to see this implemented, but I hold no illusion that it would be a "fix". I can almost guarantee that there would still be complaints. There would still be complaints that it's either too "masculine" or "feminine" or that >insert race< wouldn't walk that way, or "that isn't how a warrior or mage would walk". I have a feeling not much would change. Sure, we might be happier, but I don't see it doing much beyond that.  

 

Complaints about features are different than complaints about inequality and stereotypes. 

[Doominike]

FemShep was elite military, having arms like sticks and zero muscle made no sense at all

[KBomb]

Complaints about features are different than complaints about inequality and stereotypes. 

Well, I guess that depends on whether you see the animations as a step toward inequality and blanket for stereotype. I don't. It was a poor design choice. Either way, it doesn't matter. It still won't be a "simple" complete fix. You cannot strive to realistically please everyone and whether I agree that the current animation is suitable or not and no matter how much I would love a neutral animation, some people will still want it to be different. Which is the point I was making. The point I was making is this: Everyone has a "stereotype" about what they believe is the "right" walk, run, body type, how a certain class should be or behave, etc. That is going to reflect in what they want--nothing is wrong with that--but it doesn't change it. 

 

Lots of people are okay with the animations. Lots of people like them. Lots of people loathe the animations. Lots of people want one singular animation. Lots of variants. 

 

 

FemShep was elite military, having arms like sticks and zero muscle made no sense at all

Being elite military has nothing to do with body mass. Especially in an age where genetic and performance modification is the norm. 

[Who Knows]

 

Being elite military has nothing to do with body mass. Especially in an age where genetic and performance modification is the norm. 

If that is the case, why doesn't male Shepard have a similar lack of body mass? That's the thing. You can argue you don't need to be big and have obvious muscles to be strong, but it's always been the males with tons of muscles and females with very little if at all in these games, even when they have the exact same backgrounds and jobs. That is a problem.

[KBomb]

If that is the case, why doesn't male Shepard have a similar lack of body mass? That's the thing. You can argue you don't need to be big and have obvious muscles to be strong, but it's always been the males with tons of muscles and females with very little if at all in these games, even when they have the exact same backgrounds and jobs. That is a problem.

I didn't say it wasn't a problem. I said nothing about the male body and how it should look. I don't think it would be wrong to have a muscular female either. I just disagree that a "skinny" girl can't possible be an elite anything. 

[Doominike]

Elite military implies pretty high fitness

[KBomb]

Elite military implies pretty high fitness

Pretty high fitness isn't the same as being muscular. Lots of factors determine how much muscle you can have and physical conditioning and training can determine how fit you are. Ectomorphs aren't going to gain much muscle, but they can become very strong with training and conditioning. Really, anyone can. Muscle fiber recruitment and neural capacity have a lot to do with it. Michelle Yeoh and Connie Chan are pretty small women, but both are very physically fit, tremendously so. Granted, they aren't soldiers, but they have extreme stamina and have pretty high fitness. Male ballerinas are very fit, flexible and strong--all the things they train in.

 

Anyway, I am not saying there shouldn't be muscular femsheps. Personally, I wouldn't want one, but I would not begrudge someone else having one. I am just saying it's pretty silly and baseless to say that someone skinny couldn't be an elite soldier or have any sort of strength. Really, it's a sort of body shaming that seems to be not only typical, but mostly accepted. (Not saying you're body shaming or insulting, just pointing out that it's common)

[Doominike]

I know all that (minus those 2 you named), slim by itself is ok (though I'd prefer not so slim) but femshep also has no definition. She could have been like, Bruce Lee slim, the guy was never beefy, never weighted over 130-140lbs but he was strong. Also, if the type of training made her the slim kind of fit then male shep would be the slim kind of fit too

[KBomb]

I know all that (minus those 2 you named), slim by itself is ok (though I'd prefer not so slim) but femshep also has no definition. She could have been like, Bruce Lee slim, the guy was never beefy, never weighted over 130-140lbs but he was strong. Also, if the type of training made her the slim kind of fit then male shep would be the slim kind of fit too

Once again, I am not saying anything about maleshep. I am also not saying that she should be skinny, or that she shouldn't be. I am saying that she could be skinny and still do her job. I don't think it's about being "strong" so much as it being about animation and programming.  All males shared the same body. All females shared the same body. I suppose they didn't want to give her too much definition because they didn't want to have to make a separate body for civilians, biotics and other NPC's. I know someone is going to say, "But maleshep and the males have muscle and why can't females." I don't know why. I guess they wanted the male to have muscle. I found him too buff, tbh and would love to have had a slender male. I don't care for buff.

[Pen-N-Paper]

It's very simple - you make ONE animation for everybody, no matter race, gender, class. 

And you sell modifications to the norm as DLC..... easy-peasy.  Let people impose their own misogynism or tolerance at their own discretion. Same with the sex stuff. Suddenly, the game becomes far more inclusive of player attitudes rather than peppered with implemented developer attitude.

 

DLC sales also becomes an interesting benchmark for marketing.

[SpiritMuse]

I agree.  Those arms remind me of poor FemShep. I still can't understand how she can use a Black Widow.
 
Will we be ever able to play a female with a more athletic body (like a volleyball player, or a skier) somebody with actual muscle mass that happen to be female?

To be fair though, by the time FemShep got her hands on a Widow she was already cybernetically enhanced. Which was the reason she could use it at all, the kickback being too powerful for ordinary humans to handle without injury.

That being said I would love to see more muscular female body types in video games. And less muscular male ones.

[Grieving Natashina]

To be fair though, by the time FemShep got her hands on a Widow she was already cybernetically enhanced. Which was the reason she could use it at all, the kickback being too powerful for ordinary humans to handle without injury.

That being said I would love to see more muscular female body types in video games. And less muscular male ones.

I couldn't agree more, on both counts.  One thing that killed my interest in playing a maleShep was the gorilla stomp.  I couldn't take it seriously, especially as an Inflirator.  Last time I checked, even male rogue-types didn't stomp across the battlefield.

[aTigerslunch]

In the Skyhold video, we got to see a lady inquisitor mince about Skyhold and while it isn't nearly as exaggerated as f!Hawke's movements, it was still a bit disappointing. 

Until I remembered my fave thing in the world is to make my big burly m!Hawkes mince around with the animation-swap mod. (May M!Hawke's hips never quit.)

 

Can we get a "Sway off/on" toggle somewhere?  (I don't care if this happens post launch lol) I mean, There are games that allow you to chose your walk animations in CC, so it's not like it's revolutionary either. (Can you imagine a huge m!Adaar running around like that? Hips swinging back and forth like a pendulum? I need this to happen. Who knows how long it'll take for Frostbite to be cracked.)

 

EDIT: When I say "toggle" here I literally mean "let us chose between the two available options" because I honestly do not expect Bioware to add in more animations. I'd just like to choose which run my Inquisitors have. Fullstop, and I know there are others who are interested in that as well.

 

This is not meant to shame others who walk differently than us, or walk like this in real life. The Inquisitor isn't a real person, however, and their movements are planned, choreographed, and coded by a team of developers. The Inquisitor's walk is artificial and not the result of his/her/their development as a human being. It was decided for them by a third party.

 

It is a response to the uncomfortable reality that, in gaming, characters who are coded "female" are often given a different set of movement animations intended to sexaulize them or heighten their sexuality. No one is saying that this has to be taken out, some of us would just like the option to NOT have a walk/run animation created for the sole purpose of making our heroine's butt wiggle while she walks. And some of us would like to see our heroes (or Inquisitors of other gender alignments) sashay around with that same animation.

 

One of the few requests I like.     Sadly, like most toggles, is too much work. Now if had change of walk like Saints Row that is slightly different than what you are asking, that might be easier to do. 

[Nefla]

Once again, I am not saying anything about maleshep. I am also not saying that she should be skinny, or that she shouldn't be. I am saying that she could be skinny and still do her job. I don't think it's about being "strong" so much as it being about animation and programming.  All males shared the same body. All females shared the same body. I suppose they didn't want to give her too much definition because they didn't want to have to make a separate body for civilians, biotics and other NPC's. I know someone is going to say, "But maleshep and the males have muscle and why can't females." I don't know why. I guess they wanted the male to have muscle. I found him too buff, tbh and would love to have had a slender male. I don't care for buff.

I think people just don't like the genders being treated differently. If manshep had been very petite and slim, no one would be complaining about femshep being petite and slim. People who appear skinny can of course be physically capable and strong but it's not visually apparent (and you want visually apparent in a video game) and the skinny people most of us know in our daily lives are those without any muscle tone rather than those with lean, strong muscle so a lot of us have that visual association. Add that to the fact that skinny women (and skinny women with large breasts) are the only kind of woman you usually see in video games and it becomes very disappointing to have femshep fit that as well. You finally get a legitimate female hero and she's a soldier, a role that makes sense for her to be beefier and more defined (unlike characters such as princess Peach) and she still has to be thin and petite (and they even held a beauty contest for her before ME3). Sorry muscular ladies, it's still 20 years too early for you to think about being represented in a video game.

[KBomb]

I think people just don't like the genders being treated differently. If manshep had been very petite and slim, no one would be complaining about femshep being petite and slim. People who appear skinny can of course be physically capable and strong but it's not visually apparent (and you want visually apparent in a video game) and the skinny people most of us know in our daily lives are those without any muscle tone rather than those with lean, strong muscle so a lot of us have that visual association. Add that to the fact that skinny women (and skinny women with large breasts) are the only kind of woman you usually see in video games and it becomes very disappointing to have femshep fit that as well. You finally get a legitimate female hero and she's a soldier, a role that makes sense for her to be beefier and more defined (unlike characters such as princess Peach) and she still has to be thin and petite (and they even held a beauty contest for her before ME3). Sorry muscular ladies, it's still 20 years too early for you to think about being represented in a video game.

Yes, I know all of this. I was only pointing out that it was nonsense to say femshep wouldn't be able to do her duty because she is skinny. Wanting a muscular female is perfectly fine, but it's a visual and role playing preference. It's quite different to say, "I'd love to have a muscular female because it fits in with what I imagine a soldier/warrior to be. It helps my immersion." rather than, "Having a skinny female soldier/warrior is stupid. No way someone so skinny can be one of those."

Not only is that untrue, it's a form of body shaming. That is the only thing I was pointing out. I wasn't touching male/female equality, etc.

In closing, femshep may have been skinny, but she didn't have large breasts. They were very proportioned to her body type. I get what you mean about it, though. And to be fair to Bioware, I don't think they meant for it to come off as a beauty contest. People wanted a femshep to be represented and
I think it was more about getting the community involved into the planning and design of her. Unfortunately, it turned into a hot mess. I think they had the best intentions, but I am sure you know the old saying about that.

[Elissiaro]

In closing, femshep may have been skinny, but she didn't have large breasts. They were very proportioned to her body type. I get what you mean about it, though. And to be fair to Bioware, I don't think they meant for it to come off as a beauty contest. People wanted a femshep to be represented and
I think it was more about getting the community involved into the planning and design of her. Unfortunately, it turned into a hot mess. I think they had the best intentions, but I am sure you know the old saying about that.

 

Imo the beauty contest was especially bad because femShep already had a design. The face if you didn't customize was consistent through game 1 and 2. But then they suddenly had to redesign her for 3? Sure she looked really similar to the 1st preset in game 1 and a bit similar but less so to the 1st preset in 2, but that dosen't change that that was Shepard.

And now she's this bottle red freckled lady with too much makeup and no adorable eyebrow scar. Though the scar was already gone in 2.

[KBomb]

Imo the beauty contest was especially bad because femShep already had a design. The face if you didn't customize was consistent through game 1 and 2. But then they suddenly had to redesign her for 3? Sure she looked really similar to the 1st preset in game 1 and a bit similar but less so to the 1st preset in 2, but that dosen't change that that was Shepard.
And now she's this bottle red freckled lady with too much makeup and no adorable eyebrow scar. Though the scar was already gone in 2.

The "default" had red hair and freckles, too.

[Elissiaro]

The "default" had red hair and freckles, too.

 

I don't think she does. But I could be wrong I guess, and I'm pretty sure her hair in 3 is the reddest red colour, in 1 and 2 it was more orange-y or just less red. The red colours were red-red, orange(less red)-red and orange iirc.

 

Here, default Shepards me1. Are those freckles or pores?

[KBomb]

I don't think she does. But I could be wrong I guess, and I'm pretty sure her hair in 3 is the reddest red colour, in 1 and 2 it was more orange-y or just less red. The red colours were red-red, orange(less red)-red and orange iirc.

Here, default Shepards me1. Are those freckles or pores?

They're frecks. She had red hair, green eyes and freckles. I don't know why they didn't go with the original either. As I said, I think they just wanted to involve the community. Personally, I think they should have kept the default, or changed her according to what they wished and left the fans out of it. That is a discussion for another topic. I don't wish to veer this one too far off it's course.

[Elissiaro]

They're frecks. She had red hair, green eyes and freckles. I don't know why they didn't go with the original either. As I said, I think they just wanted to involve the community. Personally, I think they should have kept the default, or changed her according to what they wished and left the fans out of it. That is a discussion for another topic. I don't wish to veer this one too far off it's course.

 

Yeah okay. So moving on!

 

About them animations.

I saw a video with a qunari quizzi, and it looks like she wiggled a tiny bit less while running. That might have been cause of the clothes though. Or wishful thinking...

It was this video, I think. Warning for possible spoilers.

[Ryzaki]

Yeah the walk for me is not cringe inducing on lady qunari like it is for human and elf.

 

Alas lady qunari is doomed to crappy hair.

[Felya87]

 

 

It always surprise me how terrible is default Femshep  and even more how different is the quality of the two deafult Shepard.

Is so clear MaleShep was based on a real face, while FemShep seem...I don't really know.

And I don't know if the MaleShep image was from mods or highter res gae, but the difference in shik texture is abysmal.

(urgh, how hard it was create a decent femshep in ME1-2...)

[Nefla]

Yes, I know all of this. I was only pointing out that it was nonsense to say femshep wouldn't be able to do her duty because she is skinny. Wanting a muscular female is perfectly fine, but it's a visual and role playing preference. It's quite different to say, "I'd love to have a muscular female because it fits in with what I imagine a soldier/warrior to be. It helps my immersion." rather than, "Having a skinny female soldier/warrior is stupid. No way someone so skinny can be one of those."

Not only is that untrue, it's a form of body shaming. That is the only thing I was pointing out. I wasn't touching male/female equality, etc.

In closing, femshep may have been skinny, but she didn't have large breasts. They were very proportioned to her body type. I get what you mean about it, though. And to be fair to Bioware, I don't think they meant for it to come off as a beauty contest. People wanted a femshep to be represented and
I think it was more about getting the community involved into the planning and design of her. Unfortunately, it turned into a hot mess. I think they had the best intentions, but I am sure you know the old saying about that.

I meant that as two separate body types:

1: Skinny

2: Also skinny but with large breasts

[SpiritMuse]

It always surprise me how terrible is default Femshep  and even more how different is the quality of the two deafult Shepard.

Is so clear MaleShep was based on a real face, while FemShep seem...I don't really know.

And I don't know if the MaleShep image was from mods or highter res gae, but the difference in shik texture is abysmal.

(urgh, how hard it was create a decent femshep in ME1-2...)

 

I actually had a far easier time creating a decent looking FemShep than a custom ManShep that didn't look like a potato. >_>

 

The thing that bothered me most though was that the awesome face covering scars were male only. I wanted my FemShep to look like her face was torn apart and stitched back together again, she was an Akuze survivor after all! So I'm pretty happy that in DAI there seems to be equal opportunity facial scarring. To keep it somewhat remotely on topic. >_>;;

[Doominike]

Weren't the renegade scars the same ? I saw pics of full renegade male Shep and they looked the same as those on my FemShep