419 réponses à ce sujet

[AEve1]

Okay, I know this conversation has been done to death, but here's my issue with the FemHawke walk: I don't understand what her spine is actually doing. If she's doing the Pussycat Doll strut and rolling her hips, she needs to ALSO drop the shoulder on the side of the raised hip (https://www.youtube....TpsSq6rb8#t=146). If she's not doing that kind of strut, then her hips and shoulders should stay more parallel, and her pelvis should not swing from side to side (https://www.youtube....JT6JT4LWxI4#t=8). And if you look at animations based on mocaps of women running, you see that one of the reasons they look natural is that there's a compensatory movement in the upper body when there's a movement in the lower body (https://www.youtube....QA-ZsqvHY#t=646).

 

Now watch FemHawke. Her shoulders stay parallel with the ground, but move forward and back, while her hips move alternately up and down, ie not parallel with her shoulders (https://www.youtube....q6jPaWJdQ#t=104).

Runway models may keep their upper bodies straight while moving their hips, but the motion isn't as exaggerated as FemHawke's, and the shoulders definitely don't move forward and back the way hers do (https://www.youtube....detailpage#t=79). What's more, the hip motion in a runway model is caused by crossing one (high-heeled!) foot in front of the other, which is something FemHawke does NOT do - her feet are placed parallel to each other when she walks. Her legs don't cross at all.

 

So we've got a sexy strut, casual jogging on the beach, a mocap of athletic jogging, and a runway catwalk. And NONE of them are moving like FemHawke. WHAT IS SHE DOING. I just fundamentally don't get it. It's like the hip motion was modelled off of a runway walk, but the foot position and upper body movement were both copied from the male animation, and then slightly modified so that the feet were a bit closer together and the forearms further out from the body.

 

Anyway, I would also like to be able to choose my character's walk/run animation, if only so that I never have to spend this long trying to figure out if it's broken or not again. Something similar to the Beyond Two Souls jogging motion would be nice and gender-neutral, I think, but I'd take MHawke's run animation pretty gladly too.

[Doominike]

That's because the animation was made by hand by someone who apparently never saw a woman walk and/or doesn't understand anatomy very well

[Nefla]

Weren't the renegade scars the same ? I saw pics of full renegade male Shep and they looked the same as those on my FemShep

The renegade scars were the same, the normal ME1 scars were different. Femshep got Cassandra level scars (mild, pretty) manshep got Zaeed/Garrus level scars (disfiguring).

[Doominike]

Ah ok, those. Ya, FemShep's scars in ME1 were barely apparent, they might as well not have bothered

[TKavatar]

I just saw a video where a chantry priest (Mother Giselle?) was walking towards the Inquisitor.

 

Tried my best to control my laughter at those swaying hips of hers.

[Doominike]

That means either they thought it didn't look silly on old ladies or they thought it was worth having all old ladies in the game look silly just so the fem quizzy can walk girly 

[Pen-N-Paper]

I just fundamentally don't get it.

Money shot.

Perpetuating bad pantless gamer stereotypes through denials and false explanations of "realism."

[Pasquale1234]

<snip> excellent analysis of female walk animations </snip>

My initial reaction to the Hawke strut was along the lines of, "OMG! She's trying to escape Lothering with a broken pelvis!" It was pretty painful to watch.
 

That's because the animation was made by hand by someone who apparently never saw a woman walk and/or doesn't understand anatomy very well

To be fair, the animator may have been doing exactly what s/he was told to do - use minimal resources to create female walk / run animations that will be fantasy sexy to specific set(s) of eyes, anatomy be damned.
 

I just saw a video where a chantry priest (Mother Giselle?) was walking towards the Inquisitor.

Tried my best to control my laughter at those swaying hips of hers.

This is the reason why I wouldn't be satisfied with the option to control the animation only for the PC.

I think it would be great if they used a catwalk-model-sashay-strut-whatever animation for specific characters where it fit - like maybe Vivienne, Isabela - but for every female in the world to walk like that isn't something I want to see.

They devote a crapton of resources to animating a bazillion different combat moves, applying effects to them, and hours of cinematic cutscenes, but apparently can't stretch the budget to provide more natural looking walk / run cycles. Priorities, I guess.

[Tishina]

They devote a crapton of resources to animating a bazillion different combat moves, applying effects to them, and hours of cinematic cutscenes, but apparently can't stretch the budget to provide more natural looking walk / run cycles. Priorities, I guess.

I know. If they didn't have the resources to be sensitive to stereotypes (i.e. make the sexy walk optional for either gender), it would have been better in my opinion to stick with one generic animation for both sexes. I love BioWare storytelling, but I have to say what I've seen and heard so far has shaken my belief that they're interested in breaking gender norms at all. It isn't that they created such a walk, it's that they've imposed it (and seem to be moving toward sexualized, conventional feminine appearance and movement).

[ericaceae]

In the "Lady Inquisitor" thread, various people have brought up the statistics concerning how many players rolled a FemShep.  Are there similar statistics for the Dragon Age series?  Do we have any idea of who plays female leads in DA?  

Who is the Inquisitor's sexy strut intended for?  If women make up the bulk of F!PC players, why do we need the sexy walk?  Is it eye candy for the lesbian and bisexual women?  Is it for the players who wanted a more feminine walk?  Is it intended for male players?  If so, why?  

BioWare devs have stated that they aren't interested in catering to straight male players in other areas (LI breakdown, for instance).  Why create a walk for a female PC meant to titillate male players, then?  And if the walk is intended for male players, doesn't that diminish them?  I'm sure some male players do appreciate the sexy strut, but suggesting that men can only enjoy playing a female character if she's swaying her hips is as insulting to men as it is to women.  
 

[HuldraDancer]

Considering that the female Inquisitors get the male animations when cinematic cut scenes happen I would guess the 'sexy' walk is just something for people to stare at, at least that's how it comes off to me.

[Felya87]

If I remember correctly, the statistic for DAO was something like 30% of female players based on the various platforms accounts (orign, PSN, Xbox. But I can't really remember where I read it, so It can be completely wrong.

[Grieving Natashina]

If I remember correctly, the statistic for DAO was something like 30% of female players based on the various platforms accounts (orign, PSN, Xbox. But I can't really remember where I read it, so It can be completely wrong.

David Gaider talked about that at a GDC panel in 2013.  That's where the 30% number comes from.

[Felya87]

David Gaider talked about that at a GDC panel in 2013.  That's where the 30% number comes from.

 

oh, ok. Thanks to clarify this  I had the number in mind, but could't remember where I had find it.

[Lady Luminous]

In the "Lady Inquisitor" thread, various people have brought up the statistics concerning how many players rolled a FemShep.  Are there similar statistics for the Dragon Age series?  Do we have any idea of who plays female leads in DA?  

Who is the Inquisitor's sexy strut intended for?  If women make up the bulk of F!PC players, why do we need the sexy walk?  Is it eye candy for the lesbian and bisexual women?  Is it for the players who wanted a more feminine walk?  Is it intended for male players?  If so, why?  

BioWare devs have stated that they aren't interested in catering to straight male players in other areas (LI breakdown, for instance).  Why create a walk for a female PC meant to titillate male players, then?  And if the walk is intended for male players, doesn't that diminish them?  I'm sure some male players do appreciate the sexy strut, but suggesting that men can only enjoy playing a female character if she's swaying her hips is as insulting to men as it is to women.  
 

 

Oh my god, can we shout this from the rooftops, please? 

[Grieving Natashina]

oh, ok. Thanks to clarify this  I had the number in mind, but could't remember where I had find it.

No problem.  I had re-watched it about a month ago, so it was relatively fresh in my mind.  

[ericaceae]

No problem.  I had re-watched it about a month ago, so it was relatively fresh in my mind.  

 

I imagine that this data is harder to gather, but do you happen to know if most of those players are female? 

 

And thank you both for the information! 

[Grieving Natashina]

I imagine that this data is harder to gather, but do you happen to know if most of those players are female? 

 

And thank you both for the information! 

I wish I knew.  Honestly, I don't think BioWare does either.  

 

Here, let me pull up the link to the GDC panel for you.   It's worth the watch, if you're curious.  Sorry for OT guys, I'll try to reign it in after this.  

 

http://www.gamasutra...ty_in_games.php

[Hanako Ikezawa]

Ah ok, those. Ya, FemShep's scars in ME1 were barely apparent, they might as well not have bothered

On the other hand, Female Shepard had my favorite scar of all the options: the one across the face over the nose. I would have loved to have that be available for both genders and sad that we didn't get to keep it in ME2 and ME3. 

[Nefla]

She was definitely animated for the male gaze

 

"I would suggest that you toggle into walk mode and play a female Hawke, and do just that. Mmmmrrrrowwwl."

[Who Knows]

It would be nice to see a dev post in here.

[Pen-N-Paper]

 I'm sure some male players do appreciate the sexy strut, but suggesting that men can only enjoy playing a female character if she's swaying her hips is as insulting to men ....  
 

Thank you for accurately articulating my strong feelings on this. My feelings on this issue colour my perception that the game is essentially pubescent eye-candy and not mature role-playing - for what my feelings are worth. They stem from being insulted.

[Lord Bolton]

It would be nice to see a dev post in here.

Yes, I still remember Mike Laidlaw's post about female animation in DA2. He was sooo happy about that. I would like to know what's his current opinion...

[Panda]

I'm kinda starting to understand why Ubisoft said that female characters are too hard to animate.

[Felya87]

I'm kinda starting to understand why Ubisoft said that female characters are too hard to animate.

 

I think is more that devs make it difficult. Work wise, is the same making a sway walk and a more normal one. Is just hard make a both  sexy and serious walk.