419 réponses à ce sujet

[KBomb]

My largest problem isn't even the walk. It's the idle animation (specifically for the elven female, but I saw a bit in the human too). No matter how balanced your armour is, or the stuff on your back, when your feet are one directly behind the other, it gets easy for someone to push you and tip you over. Even worse, going from one foot behind the other limits your next move to separating your feet to actually start performing the action. Kicking, punching, jumping, all of it would end up making you fall unless you are grounded. That is feet spread apart, hip width, with the toes pointing straight forward to a slight outward angle.

I'm an actor. I've done a lot of jumping, dancing and combat on stage, and believe me, any action, even simple as walking, requires an extra step when your feet aren't even a big enough distance apart. Plus it looks silly. It's why I disagree with the idea that the DAI animations are better than DA2, because Isabela may not be perfectly grounded, but with her feet apart, despite the angle, or the fact her hip is out, she can do a hell of a lot more immediately than an Elven Inquisitrix, who is posed only to do one thing immediately... pirouette.

As long as someone has no disabilities, no matter how they walk, they end with the feet apart. No matter how bad the angle, or how uneven the distribution of weight (*cough*, Isabela), the feet are apart. And the Elven Inquisitrix's is not. So I'd at least like a toggle, so my characters can end up in a way that makes me not scream "GROUNDING" at my television, and wonder how they can possibly shift so easily from it to any other action.

Actually, in a defensive stance, one foot would be slightly behind the other, not in line with it. It would work like a "kickstand" if someone were to push you backward. Easy experiment: stand with your feet evenly aligned and ask someone to shove you. Then, place your feet even with your shoulders, left foot planted firmly a step behind you and asked to be shoved. You'll see the difference.

Of course, it has nothing to do with her idle stance. You may not like how it looks, but in the game, it has nothing at all to do with her defensive pose or ability, since game mechanics keep you from being idle when in battle. You'll never be attacked in that position, ever.

We can spew about real life technical and defensive positioning all day long, but what truly should matter is game mechanics and while visually, her walk/run/idle may displease you, it won't affect your game mechanics. When battle starts, combat stance will override and ass kicking will commence, regardless.

[Who Knows]

The trading of practical animations/armor for (what the developers think is) sexy in female characters is a real problem. It isn't justified by the absence of gameplay penalties.

 

If there is no toggle, I really don't see why they couldn't do this something like DA:O/ME1's animations for the female player character. It's not as if they don't reuse animations from previous games all the time.

[Andir]

i would love a toggle! i think people who want to choose between a walk should absolutely be allowed to do so. and a neutral animation would  be fantastic! the male animation is not neutral in anyway, either. (he has quite a prominent 'swagger' to his walk, where his legs are a bit bowed.) both gender animations are pretty exaggerated.

 

but srsly. why do people have to resort to derogatory language? "****-walk" "hooker" "horny" and the list goes on. really? you couldn't just leave it at, "it's exaggerated and i would prefer a natural walk?" really? i happen to like the walk. is it natural? no. but i like it, and i like the guy's as well. they certainly aren't organic, but not everything has to be. that's why a choice is great! because some people, like me, like it and we have just as much right to want it incorporated as you have the right to not. but this language is ridiculous. 

[Remmirath]

Actually, in a defensive stance, one foot would be slightly behind the other, not in line with it. It would work like a "kickstand" if someone were to push you backward. Easy experiment: stand with your feet evenly aligned and ask someone to shove you. Then, place your feet even with your shoulders, left foot planted firmly a step behind you and asked to be shoved. You'll see the difference.

Depends on the weapon in question. What you say is true for rapier, for instance, but for longsword (and many other weapons) you'll usually have your feet shoulder-width apart as well as with one foot forward. The problem with the idle stance, defensively speaking, is that her feet are too close together, not that they're one in front of the other.

However, I agree that the problem with it isn't that it's not combat-ready. The problem with it is that it doesn't work for a very large percentage of the possible character types somebody might play, and it more obviously doesn't work for them than a neutral animation set would not work for some other character types. I would like my character to always look at least semi-ready or prepared to enter combat, but that wouldn't even necessarily be true of every character I might play, and it certainly wouldn't necessarily be true of the characters that other people would like to play.

I do take more issue with it given that it's only the female character who has such animations. It implies a distinct personality difference between the male and female characters you can play, with no choice on the player's end, and with the unusual animations for the female character and the more neutral ones for the male character. The intent behind the animation set may very well have been to pay more attention to the female character, but to me at least, it comes off as limiting the roleplaying options for female characters (and not male characters) for no good reason. It also strikes me as stereotypical. Certainly there are some people who do walk like that, and if it was a choice that would be great, it is not true of a significant enough majority of women to have that reasonably be the default.

[Lieutenant Kurin]

Actually, in a defensive stance, one foot would be slightly behind the other, not in line with it. It would work like a "kickstand" if someone were to push you backward. Easy experiment: stand with your feet evenly aligned and ask someone to shove you. Then, place your feet even with your shoulders, left foot planted firmly a step behind you and asked to be shoved. You'll see the difference.

Of course, it has nothing to do with her idle stance. You may not like how it looks, but in the game, it has nothing at all to do with her defensive pose or ability, since game mechanics keep you from being idle when in battle. You'll never be attacked in that position, ever.

We can spew about real life technical and defensive positioning all day long, but what truly should matter is game mechanics and while visually, her walk/run/idle may displease you, it won't affect your game mechanics. When battle starts, combat stance will override and ass kicking will commence, regardless.

 

I wasn't talking defensive. I was talking neutral. It doesn't displease me, it looks silly. She doesn't look at rest, or relaxed or idle. She's not grounded. And this is a discussion about visuals, what works or doesn't. Game mechanics isn't part of the discussion here, and certainly shouldn't be the only discussion. As games slowly move into an art form, it is important to note how visuals add or detract to immersion. And an idle stance that involves one foot directly behind the other, for any reason other than doing a pirouette, cracks my immersion a bit, since I know that that's not a stance she'd be in if she was truly at rest.

 

If you want to talk about a defensive stance, fine, it still doesn't work as there is no spacing between her feet. She has one foot directly before another. But, again, I wasn't talking defensive.

[Ryzaki]

The trading of practical animations/armor for (what the developers think is) sexy in female characters is a real problem. It isn't justified by the absence of gameplay penalties.

 

If there is no toggle, I really don't see why they couldn't do this something like DA:O/ME1's animations for the female player character. It's not as if they don't reuse animations from previous games all the time.

 

Ha. Previous games.

 

FemPC uses male animations in the cinematics in DAI.

[LiquidLyrium]

All right I edited my first post to add some clarification and hopefully keep this thread from going off-track. And I will repeat myself.

 

There are people who walk like the lady Inquisitor in real life.

 

That is fine.

 

There are multitude of gaits out there and none of them are 'right' or 'wrong.'

 

However,

 

The Inquisitor is not a real person.

 

Someone chose to make those animations.

 

Someone chose to designate those animations based on highly gender-biased decisions.

 

You are not wrong for liking the walks as they are.

You are not wrong for disliking the walks as they are.

 

Some of us would simply like the option to choose.

 

I cannot make it more simple than this.

 

There is nothing inherently wrong about including a "sexy walk." What I object to, is that it is part of a very long pattern across the industry, that femme/female/lady-types/female-coded characters are always being given this sort of treatment and are rarely given other options. 

 

(I'm trying to be as inclusive as possible here.)

[KBomb]

Depends on the weapon in question. What you say is true for rapier, for instance, but for longsword (and many other weapons) you'll usually have your feet shoulder-width apart as well as with one foot forward. The problem with the idle stance, defensively speaking, is that her feet are too close together, not that they're one in front of the other.


 

I wasn't speaking of an offensive stance, but of a defensive one. Of course, utilizing a weapon would take momentum, and a forward stance would be used. I was speaking strictly of a defensive position.

 

 

I wasn't talking defensive. I was talking neutral. It doesn't displease me, it looks silly. She doesn't look at rest, or relaxed or idle. She's not grounded. And this is a discussion about visuals, what works or doesn't. Game mechanics isn't part of the discussion here, and certainly shouldn't be the only discussion. As games slowly move into an art form, it is important to note how visuals add or detract to immersion. And an idle stance that involves one foot directly behind the other, for any reason other than doing a pirouette, cracks my immersion a bit, since I know that that's not a stance she'd be in if she was truly at rest.

 

If you want to talk about a defensive stance, fine, it still doesn't work as there is no spacing between her feet. She has one foot directly before another. But, again, I wasn't talking defensive.

But you were talking about defensive. I wasn't speaking of her idle animation being used defensively, you were. I was just saying that keeping your feet even, as you stated, wouldn't keep her from being pushed over, it would contribute to it. Sort of pointing out the flaw in an argument you made. It's specifically what I replied to. You said:

 

 

 

My largest problem isn't even the walk. It's the idle animation (specifically for the elven female, but I saw a bit in the human too). No matter how balanced your armour is, or the stuff on your back, when your feet are one directly behind the other, it gets easy for someone to push you and tip you over.

 

And...

 

 

 

Even worse, going from one foot behind the other limits your next move to separating your feet to actually start performing the action. Kicking, punching, jumping, all of it would end up making you fall unless you are grounded. That is feet spread apart, hip width, with the toes pointing straight forward to a slight outward angle.

 

So, why try to school me on how this is a discussion about visuals when you bring up how she would be pushed down and it would limit her next move into action? Neither of those things would happen due to game mechanics. 

 

I completely agree it's about visuals. Yet, people insist on bringing up real world tactics as if it will inhibit game mechanics. It won't. Visually, I get it. They don't like it and I don't blame them, even though I don't mind it, I can certainly see why it would bother someone who already had a personality and character developed. 

 

Edit: Out of respect for the OP, I think we should keep the discussion on toggle or other options to include more animations. There is another thread crawling around here somewhere about the details of the walk. So, this will my last post on this particular subject. (Game mechanics vs. "Reality")

[Nefla]

Welcome to the "I'm insulted about this" club.
 
...because I have been deeply offended by the apparent need to sexualize female characters - including the protagonist - since I first witnessed the Hawke sashay.

Agreed. It's dumb crap like this that makes me much more likely to play a male character. The male character is designed as someone to be respected while the female character is designed to be leered at by men. I can't identify with that.

[Lieutenant Kurin]

I wasn't speaking of an offensive stance, but of a defensive one. Of course, utilizing a weapon would take momentum, and a forward stance would be used. I was speaking strictly of a defensive position.

 

 

But you were talking about defensive. I wasn't speaking of her idle animation being used defensively, you were. I was just saying that keeping your feet even, as you stated, wouldn't keep her from being pushed over, it would contribute to it. Sort of pointing out the flaw in an argument you made. It's specifically what I replied to. You said:

 

 

 

 

And...

 

 

 

 

So, why try to school me on how this is a discussion about visuals when you bring up how she would be pushed down and it would limit her next move into action? Neither of those things would happen due to game mechanics. 

 

I completely agree it's about visuals. Yet, people insist on bringing up real world tactics as if it will inhibit game mechanics. It won't. Visually, I get it. They don't like it and I don't blame them, even though I don't mind it, I can certainly see why it would bother someone who already had a personality and character developed. 

 

Edit: Out of respect for the OP, I think we should keep the discussion on toggle or other options to include more animations. There is another thread crawling around here somewhere about the details of the walk. So, this will my last post on this particular subject. (Game mechanics vs. "Reality")

No one's trying to school you. And in any case, I'll leave my final points here. 

1. There is such a thing as being at rest, and standing. Not offensive, or defensive, but at rest.

2. Just because, in game, it doesn't actually affect gameplay, doesn't mean it can't look unreal enough to break immersion for some, me included.

[Nefla]

The sims 4 did it(with like 7 choices plus a sad walk and a has to pee walk) I wish that if BioWare was going to include such extreme walks like this sashay that we get to choose which one we want regardless of gender.

[LightningPoodle]

It's for sex appeal... could you honestly tell me that you'd prefer a woman who has a metal hip compared to, well, a bone one?

[witchknights]

I hate hate haaaaaaaaaaaaate that walk/run hip swinging. it feels kind of like having to go through the playboy aisle in a magazine stand, that kind of objectifying softly titillating gait is objectifying as all hell. it's terrible and demeaning and off-putting; not all women catwalk everywhere.

 

I'm still going to play female inquisitors, but i wish they had given us the option to not strut.

[Nefla]

It's for sex appeal... could you honestly tell me that you'd prefer a woman who has a metal hip compared to, well, a bone one?

Metal hip? Bone hip? What are you talking about?

[witchknights]

Oh, one thing I forgot: One of the reasons this sort of female catwalk animation is so yucky to me is that i had to train myself very early out of any kind of hip swinging while walking because of catcalling/street harassment. like, 11/12 years old early. the fact that it's so exagerated and so obviously meant to be gazed on just... brings out all kinds of unpleasant memories.

[HuldraDancer]

Oh, one thing I forgot: One of the reasons this sort of female catwalk animation is so yucky to me is that i had to train myself very early out of any kind of hip swinging while walking because of catcalling/street harassment. like, 11/12 years old early. the fact that it's so exagerated and so obviously meant to be gazed on just... brings out all kinds of unpleasant memories.

 

Sorry to bump in here but I"m on the opposite of you on that. Well on the reason why I'm not fond of that kind of walk anyway. I have a bit of a strut to my walks not something I enjoy but it was drilled into me at a young age around 13 or so and if I didn't walk like that I'd get a lot of bullying so I really hate the way I walk, so I guess I don't like it for similar reasons as you do bad memories. If you don't mind my asking how did you train yourself out of that walk?

[Ryzaki]

Oh, one thing I forgot: One of the reasons this sort of female catwalk animation is so yucky to me is that i had to train myself very early out of any kind of hip swinging while walking because of catcalling/street harassment. like, 11/12 years old early. the fact that it's so exagerated and so obviously meant to be gazed on just... brings out all kinds of unpleasant memories.

 

sorry you had to go through that.

 

But the catcalling was what was wrong not your walk =/ (many of them do it regardless cause assholes are assholes).

[Kaza]

I would really prefer both male and female inquisitors to have the same walking animations, really--maybe more like how it worked in origins?  I think male and female wardens walked the same, or at least similarly. 

 

Being able to pick between walking animations would also be a nice touch.  I dunno, I just want my inquisitor to not have that hip-swaying movement when she walks?  It always looks kind of distracting and strange to me.  It's not how I walk so it just seems weird--and my characters all lean towards very masculine (and a bit ugly), so the strut is just...strange on them. 

[General TSAR]

If only Bioware decided to recycle movement animations from Dragon Age Origins.

[witchknights]

Sorry to bump in here but I"m on the opposite of you on that. Well on the reason why I'm not fond of that kind of walk anyway. I have a bit of a strut to my walks not something I enjoy but it was drilled into me at a young age around 13 or so and if I didn't walk like that I'd get a lot of bullying so I really hate the way I walk, so I guess I don't like it for similar reasons as you do bad memories. If you don't mind my asking how did you train yourself out of that walk?

hm, it's kind of hard to explain? I kind of tried copying the way my friends walked - i was one of the boys at the time - and walking very stiff with my hands on my pockets, short steps, elbows in, trying to not cross my feet. I don't really remember details on the process, but it took a while because I had ballet training, then sort of became natural.

[HuldraDancer]

hm, it's kind of hard to explain? I kind of tried copying the way my friends walked - i was one of the boys at the time - and walking very stiff with my hands on my pockets, short steps, elbows in, trying to not cross my feet. I don't really remember details on the process, but it took a while because I had ballet training, then sort of became natural.

 

Well thank you for trying to explain anyway I'll have to try to practice something like that when the families asleep. I hate walking the way I do but I do get harassed by my family a lot if I don't so this may have to wait until I get a new place. Anyway thanks again.

[Aravasia]

I really hate the attitude on these forums that if a female does anything that could be considered 'attractive' to a male then she's obviously doing it for 'attention' or 'sex appeal' and isn't a 'sensible real woman'. Yet no one ever points out the over-masculine male movements as being an appeal for women. That's not equality.

 

People do walk as such in real life. A walk often has far more to do with body proportions, rather than personality. For women with wider hips, that walk is perfectly natural.

 

That being said, I've mentioned on other threads that I am in favor of there being some type of choice between female and male animations within the character creator. For myself, I like the current animations (apart from the stand perhaps), although I could imagine them not fitting every character I planned out. But I'm not about to berate someone for preferring something else.

[witchknights]

I really hate the attitude on these forums that if a female does anything that could be considered 'attractive' to a male then she's obviously doing it for 'attention' or 'sex appeal' and isn't a 'sensible real woman'. Yet no one ever points out the over-masculine male movements as being an appeal for women. That's not equality.

The female inquisitor isn't choosing to walk that way, or isn't naturally inclined to walk that way (and no amount of hip width makes an ass swing that hard unless you're trying). She has been modelled to walk that way. Characters do not have agency, or physical bodies.

 

and not that it matters, but most women i know (myself included) arent that hot about hypermasculinity. it's intimidating and scary rather than sensual or attractive.

[KBomb]

Well thank you for trying to explain anyway I'll have to try to practice something like that when the families asleep. I hate walking the way I do but I do get harassed by my family a lot if I don't so this may have to wait until I get a new place. Anyway thanks again.

By your family? How dreadful. Don't train yourself to be different, unless it's what you want. Don't let others mold who you are.

I have a pretty feminine walk, but I like it. Sometimes I get a lot of catty remarks. Once, someone told a friend that because guys don't want to date deaf girls (I am deaf), I have to overcompensate to get attention. I honestly thought that notion was ridiculous and it didn't offend me, nor did it make me want to be someone else.

Life is full of ugly and unfortunately, a lot of women tear down other women for being "too girlie" or "too masculine". I know guys do it, too, but it really annoys me when I see women do it to each other. I don't think changing media is going to be the key-- changing how we view others will. Every time a woman calls another woman a "hooker" or "butch", they are adding to the stereotype that only a certain type of woman can be beautiful or sexy, smart and competant, independent and no nonsense. We share the hypocrisy every time we say, "I can't take a woman like that seriously." Or, "She does that to get attention."

Anyway, if you're happy with who you are, don't change it. Embrace it. I understand it must be hard when your family doesn't offer their support, but don't let others dictate your comfort and self-worth. Chin up.

[Aravasia]

The female inquisitor isn't choosing to walk that way, or isn't naturally inclined to walk that way (and no amount of hip width makes an ass swing that hard unless you're trying). She has been modelled to walk that way. Characters do not have agency, or physical bodies.

 

and not that it matters, but most women i know (myself included) arent that hot about hypermasculinity. it's intimidating and scary rather than sensual or attractive.

The comment was more directed towards posters who were saying that no real person walks like that in real life or that those who do are doing it for sexual attraction or attention. I apologize if I came off as harsh. Other kids used used to comment and laugh on the way I walked when I was little. I was eight at the time, so I obviously wasn't trying to appear 'sexy'. It was just the way I walked, and I ended up spending this really uncomfortable amount of time trying to walk more straightforward until finally just ignoring them.  I have completely no problem against the choice for other animations, I tend to prefer my characters to be more like me, so that is why I prefer the current walk. But I do think it would be nice to have a choice. I know of many other players who would like to choose either male or female animations for either gender.