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[witchknights]

The comment was more directed towards posters who were saying that no real person walks like that in real life or that those who do are doing it for sexual attraction or attention. I apologize if I came off as harsh. Other kids used used to comment and laugh on the way I walked when I was little. I was eight at the time, so I obviously wasn't trying to appear 'sexy'. It was just the way I walked, and I ended up spending this really uncomfortable amount of time trying to walk more straightforward until finally just ignoring them.  I have completely no problem against the choice for other animations, I tend to prefer my characters to be more like me, so that is why I prefer the current walk. But I do think it would be nice to have a choice. I know of many other players who would like to choose either male or female animations for either gender. 

oh, sorry if i sounded harsh too. i've just finished reading a pretty long discussion on bayonetta's design on tumblr and wow that was a fun read.   but yeah, same situation, only i now usually walk with very little swinging unless i'm wearing heels, because stomping in fancy shoes isn't nice.

 

I wouldn't even mind if the animations were different, but the movement wasn't so pronounced.

[Aravasia]

oh, sorry if i sounded harsh too. i've just finished reading a pretty long discussion on bayonetta's design on tumblr and wow that was a fun read.   but yeah, same situation, only i now usually walk with very little swinging unless i'm wearing heels, because stomping in fancy shoes isn't nice.

 

I wouldn't even mind if the animations were different, but the movement wasn't so pronounced.

I can see what you mean. I dislike the neutral animations that I have seen(ala origins), as I believe they often come off as too stiff on both genders. I think the main difference between a male and female's walk is the the leg distance. Men tend to have them farther apart, whereas woman have them close together. Then there can also be shoulder sway on men and hip sway on women. Bioware tends to exaggerate these last two on both sets of gender animations. The result is that all male animations come across as super macho manly, while all female animations come across as girly and feminine. The problem is that while people like to play masculine men and feminine women, people also like to play feminine men and masculine women, as well as characters that are more neutral towards both.

[Aravasia]

So, in regards to the female stance animation rather than walking/running, I was looking online and had found some pictures of standing poses that I thought I would share with you all and get your opinions on:

 

(spoilered just so the images don't take up the entire thread.)

 

First is the DAI standing pose:

Spoiler

This is probably my least favorite. It reminds me a bit of the way royals were trained to stand, kind of forced. I could maybe see it on elven characters, as it has a rather graceful vibe to it. (I think this actually was the female elven animation in DA2) However, I have a very hard time picturing it on say, a Qunari or Dwarf.

 

Next is the male standing pose, both one that is upright and one that is relaxed:

Spoiler

Spoiler

I think what I don't like about this one is the stiffness of the shoulders, along with the distance between the feet. It is a not my personal preference, but I believe that some of you may like it. It is very similar to the one that I did like, however.

 

Next are my personal favorites (I think some of you might like these ones too):

First is one standing upright:

Spoiler

Next is relaxed: 

Spoiler

I really like both of these. See how there isn't a huge difference between them and the male stance? But yet they still look more female. They seem to also appear the most relaxed to me, which is what I like.

 

So what do you guys think? Which ones do you like/dislike the most?

[Fariday]

I really hate the attitude on these forums that if a female does anything that could be considered 'attractive' to a male then she's obviously doing it for 'attention' or 'sex appeal' and isn't a 'sensible real woman'. Yet no one ever points out the over-masculine male movements as being an appeal for women. That's not equality.

 

People do walk as such in real life. A walk often has far more to do with body proportions, rather than personality. For women with wider hips, that walk is perfectly natural.

 

That being said, I've mentioned on other threads that I am in favor of there being some type of choice between female and male animations within the character creator. For myself, I like the current animations (apart from the stand perhaps), although I could imagine them not fitting every character I planned out. But I'm not about to berate someone for preferring something else.

 

about hyper masculinity i think you'll find that's a false equivalent the macho man isn't there to appeal to women it's just a form of male wish fulfillment.

 

on topic though i fully support a toggle i can\t imagine my qunari warrior running like that.

[KBomb]

about hyper masculinity i think you'll find that's a false equivalent the macho man isn't there to appeal to women it's just a form of male wish fulfillment.

I definitely disagree with that.

[CENIC]

My mother and grandmother tried REALLY hard in my youth to teach me to walk with a sway (which included attempts to shame me about it) because they were concerned life would be "difficult" for me if I couldn't work a strut.

Since this thread came about, I've tried to pay more attention to how I move. I walk fast, with long strides. It's a very purposeful gait.
I'm inclined to agree with the posters who are saying personality affects how you move. I've always been very self-conscious, insecure, and nervous around other people. When you appear to be in a hurry (and are moving quickly) there is less of a window of opportunity for others to try and engage you in conversation. The way I walk is probably like a defense mechanism for me.

[Aravasia]

about hyper masculinity i think you'll find that's a false equivalent the macho man isn't there to appeal to women it's just a form of male wish fulfillment.

 

on topic though i fully support a toggle i can\t imagine my qunari warrior running like that.

And not every man man finds hyper feminine women attractive. I know plenty of men who don't. But my point was that no one accuses the male animations as being an appeal for women, just because they're 'manly', because they're not. In the same way that just because a woman walks a certain way, it doesn't have to be for the attention of males.

[KBomb]

Body language is a strong "tell" when it comes to a person's persona. I work with teens who have neurological disorders and unfortunately, I see a lot of insecure, socially awkward and shy kids. Walking slouched, head down and walking "within themselves" ( a term used for walking as if you're trying to make yourself unseen or small) is a common sign a child is having issues with self-esteem. I never thought about walking fast, but you're right. It most likely is a defense mechanism.

So, yeah. I agree. Personality is expressed with how a person carries themself.

[Fariday]

And not every man man finds hyper feminine women attractive. I know plenty of men who don't. But my point was that no one accuses the male animations as being an appeal for women, just because their 'manly', because they're not. In the same way that just because a woman walks a certain way, it doesn't have to be for the attention of males.

but the female inquisitors walk was made to be appealing to men? they stated as much about F!hawk i imagine it's the same with f!inquisitor, i'm not talking about the way really women walk in real life i'm talking about video games.

[Panda]

My mother and grandmother tried REALLY hard in my youth to teach me to walk with a sway (which included attempts to shame me about it) because they were concerned life would be "difficult" for me if I couldn't work a strut.

Since this thread came about, I've tried to pay more attention to how I move. I walk fast, with long strides. It's a very purposeful gait.
I'm inclined to agree with the posters who are saying personality affects how you move. I've always been very self-conscious, insecure, and nervous around other people. When you appear to be in a hurry (and are moving quickly) there is less of a window of opportunity for others to try and engage you in conversation. The way I walk is probably like a defense mechanism for me.

 

I walk in same style, people always keep saying I should slow down and it's hard to keep up with me ^^

 

I don't think it's because I don't want other to engage with me in the conversation. I live in Finland after all, such things won't happen anyways I'm not sure what my walk tells of my personality though. I hate wasting time though so it can be because of that.

[KBomb]

disagree all you want but in most cases (not all) the super hero soldier type ultra manly man is made by men for men to feel like the ultimate man, not that women can't enjoy but it's not made specifically for them. just like ultra feminization of females in media is made by men for men doesn't mean women can't enjoy it or they should be shamed for it though .

With that logic, one can assume they make "sexy" women for women, so they can feel like a "sexy ultimate woman".

Men have a lot to live up to, as well. Go to the library or book store and look at some romance novels. If you can find one man in the cover who doesn't look muscular and defined, I will be more than shocked. The buff, handsome ladykiller is almost always portrayed in media and if his character is a "nerdy" type, he is almost always some little guy. I can think of a dozen more examples, but for the sale of not derailing the thread with a long post, I will just leave those examples. I mean, you're certainly entitled to your opinion, I am just inclined to disagree with it.

[Aravasia]

but the female inquisitors walk was made to be appealing to men? they stated as much about F!hawk i imagine it's the same with f!inquisitor, i'm not talking about the way really women walk in real life i'm talking about video games.

That comment was moreso directed towards the people posting in the forums saying it was (paraphrased) a harlot walk and unreal or unnatural. As someone who walks similarly (not purposefully I might add) and comes across those comments, it can be cutting. I like the current walk, not because it's appealing to men, but because it's appealing to me. But I also like to consider the opinions of others. Which is why I chimed in on this thread to help support the idea of having a choice in walk, or to see if there was a type of walk that both parties could be happy with. 

[HuldraDancer]

OT feel free to ignore just chiming in a bit on how others are talking about their own walk. Sorry for the kind of OT post.

 

Hip sway and either folding my arms or carrying something in front of my chest is how I usually walk the sway from being 'taught' how 'properly walk like a lady' and things in front of my chest to avoid comments I got a lot as a child about developing breast at a young age. I have never been so conscious of how I and others walk until I started going on threads like these its quite fascinating in a way to examine the body language of others and seeing how some habits effect how you walk greatly. Like a woman I know who was very shy as a kid so she walks with a bit of a hunch to hide herself and stomach sucked in to appear thinner, and a man who walks with his chest puffed out and shoulders back when he's not having back pain a habit he got in school since he was a 'tough kid', things that have been carried over from highschool still affect how some people walk its quite amazing to me. 

[Aravasia]

OT feel free to ignore just chiming in a bit on how others are talking about their own walk. Sorry for the kind of OT post.

 

Hip sway and either folding my arms or carrying something in front of my chest is how I usually walk the sway from being 'taught' how 'properly walk like a lady' and things in front of my chest to avoid comments I got a lot as a child about developing breast at a young age. I have never been so conscious of how I and others walk until I started going on threads like these its quite fascinating in a way to examine the body language of others and seeing how some habits effect how you walk greatly. Like a woman I know who was very shy as a kid so she walks with a bit of a hunch to hide herself and stomach sucked in to appear thinner, and a man who walks with his chest puffed out and shoulders back when he's not having back pain a habit he got in school since he was a 'tough kid', things that have been carried over from highschool still affect how some people walk its quite amazing to me. 

I don't think that people are actually this judgmental about the way others walk in real life. It's just different when it's on your character. Before I had just thought that a person's walk had to do with body proportions, but now I'm noticing that it does tend to reveal personality as well. I tend to use more closed body language when I walk (head down, crossed arms), and then I do have a hip sway, though I believe that one is actually due to my proportions, rather than personality, as I've had it ever since I was a child. Although, I doubt I'll ever see those options in the character creator...(not sure I would choose them anyway.)

 

Wouldn't it be really neat if in the future we had all sorts of different walking animations? Of course they wouldn't be able to utilize them in the cut-scenes, as those have specific animation movements that require more work. But just idle animation/walking choices? I think it is a really neat idea for future games.

[Panda]

With that logic, one can assume they make "sexy" women for women, so they can feel like a "sexy ultimate woman".

Men have a lot to live up to, as well. Go to the library or book store and look at some romance novels. If you can find one man in the cover who doesn't look muscular and defined, I will be more than shocked. The buff, handsome ladykiller is almost always portrayed in media and if his character is a "nerdy" type, he is almost always some little guy. I can think of a dozen more examples, but for the sale of not derailing the thread with a long post, I will just leave those examples. I mean, you're certainly entitled to your opinion, I am just inclined to disagree with it.

 

Men aren't done that way to be sexy though, it's more about power when with female it's all about being sexy. It's quite obvious on comic covers for example. The issue has been on discussion a lot: http://www.huffingto..._n_5698337.html but with little improvement. The problem is portraying men as poweful when women heroes are just sexy.

 

At least for me there is not many woman heroes I'd like to be, they are far from what I'd like to be and what I see as ideal woman. I want to have my power fantasy as well and even BW seems to go into: women should be sexy rather than powerful way. BW is doing better than most video game creators and I like your female companions for example but the animations for female characters are far from powerful.

[LiquidLyrium]

 

 

Wouldn't it be really neat if in the future we had all sorts of different walking animations? Of course they wouldn't be able to utilize them in the cut-scenes, as those have specific animation movements that require more work. But just idle animation/walking choices? I think it is a really neat idea for future games.

 

One of my favorite things in DA2 was that most of the companions had their own unique idle animations. Fenris was always looking over his shoulder, hyper-aware of his surroundings. Aveline also had the "masculine" animations as well. I think Varric had his own animations as well, because of the dwarf thing, but I'm not positive on that.

[Pen-N-Paper]

The female inquisitor isn't choosing to walk that way, or isn't naturally inclined to walk that way (and no amount of hip width makes an ass swing that hard unless you're trying). She has been modelled to walk that way. Characters do not have agency, or physical bodies.

 

 

but the female inquisitors walk was made to be appealing to men?   i'm talking about video games.

 

 

Designed by a man.....?

Reminds me of an old joke,  

[Aravasia]

Men aren't done that way to be sexy though, it's more about power when with female it's all about being sexy. It's quite obvious on comic covers for example. The issue has been on discussion a lot: http://www.huffingto..._n_5698337.html but with little improvement. The problem is portraying men as poweful when women heroes are just sexy.

 

At least for me there is not many woman heroes I'd like to be, they are far from what I'd like to be and what I see as ideal woman. I want to have my power fantasy as well and even BW seems to go into: women should be sexy rather than powerful way. BW is doing better than most video game creators and I like your female companions for example but the animations for female characters are far from powerful.

I Believe this also has to do with the association that: masculine = power, strength   while feminine = weak, passive

 

I think Bioware incorporates a good array of strong female characters. Including more feminine ones (Morrigan, Vivienne) as well as more masculine ones (Aveline, Cassandra). I don't see anything wrong with either, and I definitely don't see one group as weaker, simply because they have more feminine traits. 

 

Edit: That link you posted is honestly hilarious though, that's not what I meant about a strong feminine female character

[Hanako Ikezawa]

So, in regards to the female stance animation rather than walking/running, I was looking online and had found some pictures of standing poses that I thought I would share with you all and get your opinions on:

 

(spoilered just so the images don't take up the entire thread.)

 

First is the DAI standing pose:

Spoiler

This is probably my least favorite. It reminds me a bit of the way royals were trained to stand, kind of forced. I could maybe see it on elven characters, as it has a rather graceful vibe to it. (I think this actually was the female elven animation in DA2) However, I have a very hard time picturing it on say, a Qunari or Dwarf.

 

Next is the male standing pose, both one that is upright and one that is relaxed:

Spoiler

Spoiler

I think what I don't like about this one is the stiffness of the shoulders, along with the distance between the feet. It is a not my personal preference, but I believe that some of you may like it. It is very similar to the one that I did like, however.

 

Next are my personal favorites (I think some of you might like these ones too):

First is one standing upright:

Spoiler

Next is relaxed: 

Spoiler

I really like both of these. See how there isn't a huge difference between them and the male stance? But yet they still look more female. They seem to also appear the most relaxed to me, which is what I like.

 

So what do you guys think? Which ones do you like/dislike the most?

Hmm...

 

Of the female ones: 1,3,2

Of the male ones: 2,1

[Aravasia]

One of my favorite things in DA2 was that most of the companions had their own unique idle animations. Fenris was always looking over his shoulder, hyper-aware of his surroundings. Aveline also had the "masculine" animations as well. I think Varric had his own animations as well, because of the dwarf thing, but I'm not positive on that.

Yes! I believe it was a different set of animations for each race/gender, but they were spread out among your companions so that there was diversity. Now that I'm thinking about it, I would have loved Fenris's animations for my male characters. I think in DAI, they used Merril's standing animation, along with Female Hawke's walk and running animations. Though it does look like they took out some of the hip-swaying. And then from what I've seen, the male animations are the same as Male Hawke's, which I liked, but I definitely would have chosen Fenris's animation, given the choice. 

[KBomb]

Men aren't done that way to be sexy though, it's more about power when with female it's all about being sexy. It's quite obvious on comic covers for example. The issue has been on discussion a lot: http://www.huffingto..._n_5698337.html but with little improvement. The problem is portraying men as poweful when women heroes are just sexy.

At least for me there is not many woman heroes I'd like to be, they are far from what I'd like to be and what I see as ideal woman. I want to have my power fantasy as well and even BW seems to go into: women should be sexy rather than powerful way. BW is doing better than most video game creators and I like your female companions for example but the animations for female characters are far from powerful.

It is still placing them within a stereotype, whether it is a female being sexy and alluring, or a male being powerful and alluring. One isn't better than the other and I am sure a lot of guys would like the chance just to play a mage, for instance that doesn't have large muscular arms. If James Vega is any proof, look how many guys disliked his buffness and "dude bro" look. Or the way femShep looked at Jacob-- a full package eye sweep.

I am not saying men have it worse than women or that it bothers them less or more than it would a woman, etc etc. I was just saying it's unfair to say men are made like that because men want to be powerful, when clearly, and not just video games, that is not always the case.

And I don't think Bioware goes for just the sexy and skips on the powerful. I think they try to do both.

[Panda]

I Believe this also has to do with the association that: masculine = power, strength   while feminine = weak, passive

 

I think Bioware incorporates a good array of strong female characters. Including more feminine ones (Morrigan, Vivienne) as well as more masculine ones (Aveline, Cassandra). I don't see anything wrong with either, and I definitely don't see one group as weaker, simply because they have more feminine traits. 

 

Well I don't think feminine needs to be sexy like I don't find the articles cover I linked feminine. Feminine isn't usually linked with power cause it's linked with soft values, caring, emotions etc. Some might find their power fantasy with being feminine, I don't. I want to also point out that feminine and masculine qualities aren't only linked to certain gender, woman can be masculine and man can be feminine (not aimed to you particular but just that people don't misunderstand).

 

The biggest problem for me is lack of choice for your character. If you play female character it's always feminine (in DA series), you never get to be like Aveline and Cassandra. ME the situation was different, you weren't forced to be feminine nor sexy (except the overly sexy latex dresses) but the animations looked pretty akward instead of powerful.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

I just realized that the animations are really the only feminine things the Female Inquisitor has, since there are no feminine clothing or armor. 

[Aravasia]

Well I don't think feminine needs to be sexy like I don't find the articles cover I linked feminine. Feminine isn't usually linked with power cause it's linked with soft values, caring, emotions etc. Some might find their power fantasy with being feminine, I don't. I want to also point out that feminine and masculine qualities aren't only linked to certain gender, woman can be masculine and man can be feminine (not aimed to you particular but just that people don't misunderstand).

 

The biggest problem for me is lack of choice for your character. If you play female character it's always feminine (in DA series), you never get to be like Aveline and Cassandra. ME the situation was different, you weren't forced to be feminine nor sexy (except the overly sexy latex dresses) but the animations looked pretty akward instead of powerful.

Sorry, I had just clicked on the article and edited my post, that poster is definitely not what I had meant.

 

I tend to think of the word feminine as: traits that a female has, while masculine: traits that a male has, without their implied connotation. Meaning feminine doesn't always equal delicate and soft, while masculine doesn't always equal strong and powerful. I consider Morrigan to be feminine, yet I in no way perceive her to be delicate or soft.  

 

I also agree with your assessment, apart from DAO, where your character could act almost any way you could imagine. In DA2 you played a more feminine character. In the ME series you play a more masculine character. I actually do not mind playing either, my preference is the former, but what I mostly dislike, like you, is not really having a choice. 

[Panda]

It is still placing them within a stereotype, whether it is a female being sexy and alluring, or a male being powerful and alluring. One isn't better than the other and I am sure a lot of guys would like the chance just to play a mage, for instance that doesn't have large muscular arms. If James Vega is any proof, look how many guys disliked his buffness and "dude bro" look. Or the way femShep looked at Jacob-- a full package eye sweep.

I am not saying men have it worse than women or that it bothers them less or more than it would a woman, etc etc. I was just saying it's unfair to say men are made like that because men want to be powerful, when clearly, and not just video games, that is not always the case.

And I don't think Bioware goes for just the sexy and skips on the powerful. I think they try to do both.

 

It is stereotype, but both are stereotypes for male audience. James Vega and Jacob are more that male power fantasy as well (although some guys might not like it), at least I don't find their appearance attractive. In other hand Thane was designed for female audience and well I guess they really got me with that one