436 réponses à ce sujet

[SlottsMachine]

Eh? This thread is still kicking.

[Isichar]

Did someone say Welcome to the NHK?

[Gothfather]

Just like many issues in gaming, Anita takes something that has some merit, and then attacks every possible angle she can to further her beliefs, and the rationale bit of conversation gets drowned out by the few idiot trolls who end up getting more publicity with the issue then any rationale conversation.

 

Anytime I read about her in my local newspaper it's always "Gamers are threatening women for trying to say women should be treated equally in games" to which I say **** off

 

To be fair this is more an issue with the media then Anita though. I just think it detracts from any real conversation and I think a lot of her valid issues, as well as the people who don't agree with her and actually explain why get drowned out by the idiocy.

 

The fact that gamers so often threaten her is proof that gamer culture needs to talk about games and how they depict and treat women. And those threats do need to be brought to light by the media. The fact that she can be threaten and so many gamers think it is acceptable is an issue that should be reported on even if it eclipses the topic/issue Anita is discussing.

[Zeroth Angel]

It is rather sad that people think Feminism is silly.

When we are talking about video games? Yes, then I think it is silly.

[General TSAR]

The fact that gamers so often threaten her is proof that gamer culture needs to talk about games and how they depict and treat women. 

Yeah I bet most gamers in the gamer culture don't care about the actions of a few trolls getting their stupidity on. I would also bet they don't care about any of this nonsense and just want to play their games without having some external PC message shoved down their throats. 

[fdgvdddvdfdfbdfb]

My opinion too.

 

 

I fully support #GamerGate and Anita has lost what little respect I had for her with some of her last tweets. It's like she's trying to rile up as many people as possible and trying to twist everything into an attack on women in gaming (or women in general).

 

And I couldn't care less what David thinks of me because of that.

EDIT:

 

I mena, look at this garbage from her twitter:

 

"Yet another corollary of Lewis's Law: comments on any discussion about toxic masculinity illustrate toxic masculinity."

 

"Not a coincidence it’s always men and boys committing mass shootings. The pattern is connected to ideas of toxic masculinity in our culture." - If I said something similar about women, I would be crucified

 

"This is a war on women in gaming waged by a group of sexist monsters. If you are not a horrible human being, get out of #gamergate now."

 

 

And her list of tactics for harrassing women is to die laughing.

Apparently, politely asking question is also harrasing. Even funnies she describes the very tactics her followers, radical feminsits and SJW are using.
 

So you support death and rape threats on women in the games industry? Because that's all that gamergate is about anymore. The "favourable reviews" have been proven to be bogus.

 

 

What... that's the dumbest fcking meme I've seen and has nothing to do the topic at all
 

[General TSAR]

His reviews are still legit though. I would hope that he doesn't let whatever he's doing in regards to this bullshit controversy taint his integrity when it comes to his reviews at least. You have a source for the white knighting?

I think it was his end of the year 2013 top ten controversies.

 

Haven't really been following him anymore.

[Gothfather]

When we are talking about video games? Yes, then I think it is silly.

 

What makes video games ecempt? Why can't there be a discussion about how video games depict women?

 

Extra credits did an episode that referenced a game which was a racists wet dream, the whole point of the game was to go around killing black people. Should video games be exempt from discussions of racism? Should games be allowed to further racist belief?

 

Why is sexism perfectly acceptable in a video game but not in the real world?

[SlottsMachine]

The fact that gamers so often threaten her is proof that gamer culture needs to talk about games and how they depict and treat women. And those threats do need to be brought to light by the media. The fact that she can be threaten and so many gamers think it is acceptable is an issue that should be reported on even if it eclipses the topic/issue Anita is discussing.

 

I think that's a stretch considering most of us don't give a flying **** about Anita and her opinions. Obviously the ones terrorizing her are hella fucked up, but if someone wants to paint the rest of us with that some brush that's there call. Now I'm always interested in a good discussion, but there is too much agenda and bias for that to happen any time soon in my opinion. 

[Obadiah]

Huh, topic stuck around for once without being locked, even with all the trolling on the first page. Nice.

 

I suppose I agree with Gaider. Even if the criticism is wrong (and I agree that it seemed misplaced after a while, especially with DAO City Elf inclusion), we should be able to deal with it, as in not physically threaten people. But anyone with a presence on the internet knows what the behavior is like, this shouldn't have been a surpirse.

 

TBH, when I saw the videos criticising the video game industry, I thought they were correct, but undermining themselves (ex, as mentioned before, with the DAO example). The response I've seen from people that disagree with it is typical of happens in news and politics, and it is lately how we argue/discuss/fight over everything. Someone makes a general argument that is controversial, and if we disagree, rather than address the whole argument in an intellectually honest way, (ie. look at the conclusion and evaluate all evidence to support it whether it was included in the original argument made or not), we fixate on and attack the mistakes in the orginal argument, or demagogue the critic in one of those "How can you trust this person who has done X" statements, to make the argument simply unpopular.

 

In this case, the extreme response has become the story.

[JAZZ_LEG3ND]

By explaining the trope and that there are many games which use that trope and explaining how horrible this is while showing at the same time footage from the game and displaying the title underneath.
In a critisizism video, what is said should match to what is shown, because the audience draws automatically an association.

Yet that wasn’t the association I drew.
I thought her use of Dragon Age in the video was in line with what she was saying.

Typically I see she says things, there’s beat, then you see it. In the case of Dragon Age, there was the dead bodies’ thing, which we saw, and she was right, and there was the one-note character development, which we saw, and she was right.

At which point does she reference Dragon Age in a manner not fitting what she is pointing out in that specific point in her video?
 

She claims to "examine the plot devices and patterns most often associated with female characters in gaming from a systemic, big picture perspective."
Except she doesn't. She only picks up the negative parts.

She examines the plot devices and patterns most often associated with female characters. She never says the examination of plot devices and patterns most often not associated with female characters is a goal or priority.

She believes the status quo is up to crap and shows us why. And frankly I’m inclined to believe her for the most part. Confirmation bias is a cop-out. She not denying the existence of strong women in games, or well produced representations, what she is doing is exclusively detailing the negative. That is her goal. Tropes Versus Women, analyse those words, specifically the middle one. Just because she doesn’t praise the good it does not mean she is ignorant of it. A bit of research and you’ll discover the opposite is true. She often references Mirror’s Edge and Portal in a positive light.
 

Make a video about anything on any claim you want to prove: Americans, blacks, whites, men, movies, songs, books, Europeans, women, Comics, paintings, whatever. With enough material, you can find enough anecdotical evidence for that claim.
Doesn't prove anything and holds no significance.

She’s making an argument. A critical argument. Here’s a little story; I was talking to a guy once who had his assignment failed because it wasn’t a valid argument. He went on a bit about how great his piece was, and yeah, it sounded pretty great, but the fact was he wasn’t making an argument. He was making a statement. I didn’t have the heart to tell him. Knowing what an argument is, and how to make one, is important, and she does pretty good.

I’ve already pointed out how her critical view has caught attention in the industry, and positive things are happening because of it. When developers take her side, agree with and support her; intelligent articulated people see value and reason in the things she says, perhaps it would be a better idea to re-evaluate your stance. Be less critical of how she presents her arguments, and more critical of the lens with which you’re viewing them.

But alas, I think I'm nearing the end of my participation in this discussion. It's feeling like that time.

[Isichar]

The fact that gamers so often threaten her is proof that gamer culture needs to talk about games and how they depict and treat women. And those threats do need to be brought to light by the media. The fact that she can be threaten and so many gamers think it is acceptable is an issue that should be reported on even if it eclipses the topic/issue Anita is discussing.

 

Right. Wasn't that long ago I was listening to how gamers were threatening the people at Bioware for the ME3 ending too.

 

What exactly is she bringing to light? That there's some pieces of **** out there that are willing to threaten someone over their opinion? WELL GUESS WHAT? That's not new and that happens to various groups expressing various beliefs all the time.

 

And instead of focusing on what she's saying and going "Well I agree that when she says X that it has some merit, and when she says Y I disagree because of Z" we all get sorted into this "gamers" label that makes us all look like **** and that becomes the focus of the conversation.

 

It reminds me of a debate I saw a while back in which an atheist was debating a religious person and the religious person claimed atheists were trying to destroy the religious way of life... It's basically saying "I can't support my arguments using logic, so I'm just going to cry about how much I get attacked"

[Gothfather]

Yeah I bet most gamers in the gamer culture don't care about the actions of a few trolls getting their stupidity on. I would also bet they don't care about any of this nonsense and just want to play their games without having some external PC message shoved down their throats. 

 

The fact the most people don't care is yet another point for Anita's position. Gamers should care when ANY Gamer make a threat of rape of violence. That goes out sidethe realm of a "troll." Threats of violence, rape amd murder should make the community angry. The community should care, it doesn't matter if you agree with her or not you should care when she is threaten.

 

Or do you think it is perfectly acceptable for people to be threaten with rape, violence and murder?

[Isichar]

Or do you think it is perfectly acceptable for people to be threaten with rape, violence and murder?

 

This is basically what Anita's argument turns into:

 

"Agree with me or you support rape, violence and murder"

[Lady Nuggins]

Yeah I bet most gamers in the gamer culture don't care about the actions of a few trolls getting their stupidity on. I would also bet they don't care about any of this nonsense and just want to play their games without having some external PC message shoved down their throats. 

 

What makes you think it's external?  Gamers can't also be feminists?

[General TSAR]

Gamers should care when ANY Gamer make a threat of rape of violence. 

Why? Are we somehow responsible for the actions of all degenerates within said community?

 

 

What makes you think it's external?  Gamers can't also be feminists?

External as in outside the game.

[Gothfather]

I think that's a stretch considering most of us don't give a flying **** about Anita and her opinions. Obviously the ones terrorizing her are hella fucked up, but if someone wants to paint the rest of us with that some brush that's there call. Now I'm always interested in a good discussion, there is too much agenda and bias for that to happen any time soon in my opinion. 

Did you notice I said its proof that a discussion is need not proof that Anita is correct?

 

How is it a stretch that this type of disregard for threats to a person are deemed perfectly acceptable to many gamers? Its not one or two issolated cases.

 

Its one thing to say you are intrested in a discussion but it you ignore the venom gamers spew on teh topic then you really show that you are not intrested in teh discussion because that venom is a key point that shows there is something about gamer culture and its view of women that needs a serious look at. Why do gamers let such toxic attitudes flourish? Why is there so much hostility towards the very concept of feminism and games?

[Lady Nuggins]

Why? Are we somehow responsible for the actions of all degenerates within said community?

 

 

 

External as in outside the game.

 

Then don't read articles or watch videos that are critical of those games?  If you don't care, then why does it matter that it exists?

[General TSAR]

Once you call it a community, then yeah. Even if it's a very loose one. 

 

I'm not even sure I want to use that word myself, but whatever. As I stated in another thread, once you're loosely associated with someone like that, it's a bit like having an idiotic uncle. You don't want them to make you look stupid (unless you happen to be just as stupid yourself).

No gamer in the gamer culture has any obligation or responsibility for trolls or degenerates.

 

If that sentence makes me look stupid in the eyes of a few PC nimrods, so be it.  

 

Anyway, I'm gonna go body some demons with a stiletto wearing witch.

 

 

[SlottsMachine]

In my opinion if we all came together and began asking for better writing in games I think all lot of problems would take care of themselves. Most of the legitimate stuff Anita comments on is generally caused by hack writing not any malicious intent.