I think the description of a KISA lies in the name itself: Knight in Shining Armour. Therefore, my interpretation of a KISA is simply a person with noble attitude clad in heavy armour. That's why i suggested my mage idea earlier, because to me magic is irrelevant when it comes to a KISA - how he is percieved is what really matter.
People in here want something very specific, for better or worse.
I think the description of a KISA lies in the name itself: Knight in Shining Armour. Therefore, my interpretation of a KISA is simply a person with noble attitude clad in heavy armour. That's why i suggested my mage idea earlier, because to me magic is irrelevant when it comes to a KISA - how he is percieved is what really matter.
Except a knight isn't just someone with a noble attitude. Generally speaking he is part of an Order of some sort because it is a title. I mean, I would be totally cool if both your character and the gay KISA were the two gay characters (and straight guys were relegated to mages and rogues for a game. How funny would that be? Talk about trope subversion). And honestly, I was talking to my boyfriend (ugh I hate that word) today and I realized something else. I want a non magical knight because (and I know this is a huuuuuge stretch and a terrible thought to have, but I'm thinking and saying it anyway) of the insinuation that a gay man can't be as rough and tough as a straight man. I mean in a perfect world your warrior mage would be awesome, but there are so few straight up warrior types who are gay.
I see what you mean, and you're probably right. The way I see it is that even with magic, he can be all warrior-like. It's like a Templar in some way.
I guess said my piece on the matter. It's up to Bioware now *shudders*
I see what you mean, and you're probably right. The way I see it is that even with magic, he can be all warrior-like. It's like a Templar in some way.
I guess said my piece on the matter. It's up to Bioware now *shudders*
Andraste guide them.
Stating that Alistair counts, but Cullen doesn't due to the latter's "addiction" is completely unfair. Because if Cullen doesn't count due to lyrium, then Alistair can't either, and to extend that out, no Templar ever would be a KISA. As for having a dark past and overcoming it, I think that just adds to the KISA flavor. I mean you see much talk about Kaidan in this thread, and his past is about as dark as you can imagine: shady government experimental training camp where he killed an instructor and he tells you after that he dropped out of the scene for a bit and went through some things before coming back. After all that, he is one of, if not the most well adjusted and compassionate person on the ship. Even going so far as to in ME3 see that not all Cerberus people are terrible people, and thus it reaffirms his trust in Shepard.
It has been 10 years since the blight and Cullen has had a lot happen to him in that time. From being imprisoned by a mage rebellion in the tower he was stationed at, to seeing the worst of both his Order and the Circle, and to top it off, to make the decision to rip the leash off his neck, he has matured through that process and sees how he has previously hurt others with his action and inaction.
I wouldn't disqualify Cullen from being a KISA based on his addiction or dark past, personally. Some of his choices seem a little more pragmatic and ruthless than I'd expect from a KISA though (which I associate more with idealism and 'honour').
For example:
Well, there's also the fact that ...
Well, there's also the fact that ...
Spoiler
Your character isn't a KISA then. Not supporting murdering a defenseless person is a pretty big part of the KISA mindset.
It's why Cassandra, Cullen, and even Alistair don't count as KISAs in my opinion. All of them support murdering someone who is defenseless.
I wouldn't disqualify Cullen from being a KISA based on his addiction or dark past, personally. Some of his choices seem a little more pragmatic and ruthless than I'd expect from a KISA though (which I associate more with idealism and 'honour').
For example:
Spoiler
Cassandra suffers from a similar problem, which is actually why I don't consider her a good example of the trope either. But it's a YMMV.
Your character isn't a KISA then. Not supporting murdering a defenseless person is a pretty big part of the KISA mindset.
from what i remember, it's Leliana who brings it up, but even if it was, then sometimes you have to make the hard decisions.
from what i remember, it's Leliana who brings it up, but even if it was, then sometimes you have to make the hard decisions.
Leliana brings it up(ironic since concept art showed her crying when Celene is killed) but Cullen still supports her, thus is supporting the murder of not just royalty but also a defenseless woman. That is not something a Knight in Shining Armor would do.
Leliana brings it up(ironic since concept art showed her crying when Celene is killed) but Cullen still supports her, thus is supporting the murder of not just royalty but also a defenseless woman. That is not something a Knight in Shining Armor would do.
Again, hard choices. remember he was a Templar, and they have to deal with the Right of Annulment, unless we are again, going to exclude them based on their chosen profession, I think that advocating for one "bad" decision shouldn't disqualify him from the running.
I think a KISA should have ideals, but they don't have to be idealistic.
Again, hard choices. remember he was a Templar, and they have to deal with the Right of Annulment, unless we are again, going to exclude them based on their chosen profession, I think that advocating for one "bad" decision shouldn't disqualify him from the running.
I think a KISA should have ideals, but they don't have to be idealistic.
The Templars aren't KISAs either. They may have been once, and a few still may be, but the order as a whole has become corrupted.
But to answer your scenario, the Right of Annulment is done to defend the civilian populace from abominations and malificarum. The Templars gain nothing from it. Meanwhile letting Florianne assassinate Celene so Gaspard can take the throne and be in your debt is done primarily so you gain something from it.
They are a Knight in Shining Armor. They should have ideals and live, or at least try, up to those ideals, thus being idealistic.
Except a knight isn't just someone with a noble attitude. Generally speaking he is part of an Order of some sort because it is a title. I mean, I would be totally cool if both your character and the gay KISA were the two gay characters (and straight guys were relegated to mages and rogues for a game. How funny would that be? Talk about trope subversion). And honestly, I was talking to my boyfriend (ugh I hate that word) today and I realized something else. I want a non magical knight because (and I know this is a huuuuuge stretch and a terrible thought to have, but I'm thinking and saying it anyway) of the insinuation that a gay man can't be as rough and tough as a straight man. I mean in a perfect world your warrior mage would be awesome, but there are so few straight up warrior types who are gay.
I don't think that's a terrible thought to have at all...I've been under the impression that's a big part of the outcry for this character archetype to begin with. Most of the M/M options so far have been Rogues and Mages. There is Fenris as an exception, I suppose, but in general there's been a tendency to make Warriors straight.
It's time for a change. I'm actually hoping for exactly the scenario you brought up (all the straight male LI's are Rogues/Mages), because I also wouldn't mind if next time we had two female warriors and one male one (if they follow the 3/3/3 pattern--which I hope they do).
I honestly find this thread to be incredibly tiresome now. It's just the same debates over and over about what qualifies as a KISA and what doesn't. And, frankly, the passive-aggressive sniping is tedious. It's a latent construct. There's not only one way for a KISA to exist. We've all stated what it is that we use as criteria. Some of it overlaps, some doesn't. That's fine. Let's move on. The thread is best when it's less about which characters in the past were KISAs and more about wanting one for a s/s romance in the future.
I'd much rather see the thread move away from sniping back and forth about what counts and what doesn't count and more towards discussing actual character types that we'd like to see. I loved the conversations about Legion of the Dead and lady qunari blacksmith KISA characters. Does anyone have any other ideas? I know we've talked about a Nevarran Dragon Hunter as a possibility as well. Any other ideas?
The Templars aren't KISAs either. They may have been once, and a few still may be, but the order as a whole has become corrupted.
But to answer your scenario, the Right of Annulment is done to defend the civilian populace from abominations and malificarum. The Templars gain nothing from it. Meanwhile letting Florianne assassinate Celene so Gaspard can take the throne and be in your debt is done primarily so you gain something from it.
They are a Knight in Shining Armor. They should have ideals and live, or at least try, up to those ideals, thus being idealistic.
It would however, be unrealistic for the ideals to be viable in every situation. And really, if what Exile said is correct, then it could still fall within the realm of idealism, if the KISA was one for law and order. If that is the case, getting rid of the Game would be within the realm of their ideals, and as such Celine's death would be a small sacrifice.
I don't think that's a terrible thought to have at all...I've been under the impression that's a big part of the outcry for this character archetype to begin with. Most of the M/M options so far have been Rogues and Mages. There is Fenris as an exception, I suppose, but in general there's been a tendency to make Warriors straight.
It's time for a change. I'm actually hoping for exactly the scenario you brought up (all the straight male LI's are Rogues/Mages), because I also wouldn't mind if next time we had two female warriors and one male one (if they follow the 3/3/3 pattern--which I hope they do).
Yeah, the warriors tend to be straight for both sexes. Frankly, (not counting DLC), we've had 10 warriors in the series (excluding Shale and Dog). Of them, 8 have been males and only 2 have been females. And 2 of the males have been bisexual and 0 of the warriors have been bisexual females, lesbians, or gay males. I think that's why people are interested in both male and female KISAs as one way to show a gay/bisexual warrior. It would just be nice to see.
Yeah, the warriors tend to be straight for both sexes. Frankly, (not counting DLC), we've had 10 warriors in the series (excluding Shale and Dog). Of them, 8 have been males and only 2 have been females. And 2 of the males have been bisexual and 0 of the warriors have been bisexual females, lesbians, or gay males. I think that's why people are interested in both male and female KISAs as one way to show a gay/bisexual warrior. It would just be nice to see.
inb4 Bull is pansexual...
I honestly find this thread to be incredibly tiresome now. It's just the same debates over and over about what qualifies as a KISA and what doesn't. And, frankly, the passive-aggressive sniping is tedious. It's a latent construct. There's not only one way for a KISA to exist. We've all stated what it is that we use as criteria. Some of it overlaps, some doesn't. That's fine. Let's move on. The thread is best when it's less about which characters in the past were KISAs and more about wanting one for a s/s romance in the future.
I'd much rather see the thread move away from sniping back and forth about what counts and what doesn't count and more towards discussing actual character types that we'd like to see. I loved the conversations about Legion of the Dead and lady qunari blacksmith KISA characters. Does anyone have any other ideas? I know we've talked about a Nevarran Dragon Hunter as a possibility as well. Any other ideas?
I'd like to see a true KISA, not one that is close but does some things that go against it.
Maybe a Fog Warrior? From how Fenris and The Iron Bull describe them, they could possibly fall under the KISA trope.
It would however, be unrealistic for the ideals to be viable in every situation. And really, if what Exile said is correct, then it could still fall within the realm of idealism, if the KISA was one for law and order. If that is the case, getting rid of the Game would be within the realm of their ideals, and as such Celine's death would be a small sacrifice.
No, it wouldn't. Murder is murder no matter how you slice it. The only way it would still fall under the realm of idealism is if the person was a threat. In this case, if Celene was working with/for Corypheus. They especially wouldn't be for law and order since no crime in that era was greater than regicide.
inb4 Bull is pansexual...
Well, he is. Wasn't that the point of going back to set orientations?
Maybe a Fog Warrior? From how Fenris and The Iron Bull describe them, they could possibly fall under the KISA trope.
I'm actually fascinated by the Fog Warriors and the Fog Dancers. I'd love to learn more about them. It sounds like they use guerrilla style combat. And the Fog Dancers just seem like a cool group.
I'd like to see a true KISA, not one that is close but does some things that go against it.
Maybe a Fog Warrior? From how Fenris and The Iron Bull describe them, they could possibly fall under the KISA trope.
No, it wouldn't. Murder is murder no matter how you slice it. The only way it would still fall under the realm of idealism is if the person was a threat. In this case, if Celene was working with/for Corypheus. They especially wouldn't be for law and order since no crime in that era was greater than regicide.
Well, he is. Wasn't that the point of going back to set orientations?
People aren't perfect, which is why there are so many examples of KISA's given. If we go by the criteria of fitting every rule to a T, then the only possible KISA has been Justice from Awakening or Valor from the mage origin. And neither one of them are human.
Oh and my little post was just a snaky way of correcting dave 
Yes to whoever this handsome devil is! 
Yes to whoever this handsome devil is!
Agreed 
Here's a thought: have you noticed how both Alistair and Cullen, two characters that if not are, orbit the concept of a KISA, are both blond? It's likely just a coincidence, but the fact that I couldn't romance them as a male character kinda makes me want to have a blond KISA.
Not that there's anything wrong with Mr Smouldering Gaze 
Agreed
Here's a thought: have you noticed how both Alistair and Cullen, two characters that if not are, orbit the concept of a KISA, are both blond? It's likely just a coincidence, but the fact that I couldn't romance them as a male character kinda makes me want to have a blond KISA.
Not that there's anything wrong with Mr Smouldering Gaze
I know! I'm a total sucker for blondes, which makes it doubly annoying. 1.) Alistair and Cullen are exactly my ideal type, yet I can't romance them; and 2.) Now everyone is sick of blonde KISAs and want to move onto other hair colors and ethnicities, but I still haven't gotten my gay blonde KISA yet! I guess I'll have to hope that the pendulum will swing back in a few games and I can romance some blonde KISA guy who will seem novel by then!
That being said, I really just want a gay KISA guy. I"ll take any size, shape, race, ethnicity, or color at this point!
I loved the conversations about Legion of the Dead and lady qunari blacksmith KISA characters. Does anyone have any other ideas? I know we've talked about a Nevarran Dragon Hunter as a possibility as well. Any other ideas?
A Spartacus type. Former Tevinter slave, turned rebel against the Imperium, or some other country that uses slaves. That could be a city elf KISA.
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