7155 réponses à ce sujet

[HuldraDancer]

Hi lovely posters! Hope ya'll don't mind my lurking looking for more inspiration for my sucky writing this place is such a lovely place for inspiration and lovely in general

 

 

Okay that was kind of lame I'll go now before I embarrass myself further

[Hanako Ikezawa]

I have a question. 

 

If the next game had an Arcane Warrior as a companion, as in wore armor and used a sword as well as magic, would they be considered a KISA?

[Hanako Ikezawa]

I think it's more about attitude and morals than anything. Arcane Warrior would still fit if that was covered.

I was just asking since the character gameplay-wise would be classified as a mage but if everything else about them rang true with the KISA trope would it count or still no since gameplay-wise they aren't classified as a warrior. 

[FadelessRipley]

I was just asking since the character gameplay-wise would be classified as a mage but if everything else about them rang true with the KISA trope would it count or still no since gameplay-wise they aren't classified as a warrior.

Hmm... You'll get split opinions there I'd say. The KISA trope is as much about 'character' as in personality and morality IMO, so I think yes, it would count. It would be a grey area, sure, bit I think it would work. We've already stated that some warriors are not KISA because of their background/personality, so...I've never played Arcane Warrior or Knight Enchanter so I'm not sure, but does the class use weapons? If it were a warrior who used magic with the KISA mentality, then I see no issue.

BTW, slightly OT: I really like your thread on demisexuality. I mention it here as I feel I need to do it the service of reading the whole thread before posting, but it's 4:20am here and my head is starting to hurt, especially with side of the less, er, constructive comments. :s Thanks though - I learned something new. I confess, despite being gay I can sometimes be all "argh, why all these labels?!" I'm ashamed to say getting my head around pan took a while. But I'm open to learning, and you expressed yourself very well in your OP over there. Food for thought.

Now, as we were, dreaming of dashing KISAs...

[Zobert]

I think it's more about attitude and morals than anything. Arcane Warrior would still fit if that was covered.

 

 

 

 

Oh where oh where is Sandal is the Makah!?!

 

 

[Zobert]

Dorian = KISA

[FadelessRipley]

It depends on what parts of the archetype we're strictly enforcing. I didn't read all 100 pages - was there a list...?

Basically being a warrior is pretty important. BUT IB and even sexy Cassandra are ruled out for lack of "nobility" in their organisations/some actions. So... Would a mage with the exact noble KISA personality count...? I think it could.

Actually, what about a strictly devoted Circle Mage...? Imagine a male Vivienne, but with a nice personality. Chivalrous, I meant chivalrous! No but seriously... Pro law and order, always ready to help, noble, chivalrous, brave, never any self serving... The rules could be bent?

EDIT: or female, obviously. As a gay female, I've no words for what I did there!

[Handsome Jack]

A "gay knight" made gay for the sake of being gay's not that good of a character, in my opinion.

 

Just my two cents.

[FadelessRipley]

I think Sandal's point in his OP is that none of the same sex romance options fit this character archetype, and it would be nice for there to be some in future. We have morally ambiguous or complicated characters, mostly rogues and mages. All excellent characters (well, mostly... I'm looking at you, Anders). A nice and noble, old fashioned, slightly stuffy type like Aveline, Alistair or Cullen would be nice too.

Any character "made gay for the sake of being gay" is pretty crap, really.

[Zobert]

A "gay knight" made gay for the sake of being gay's not that good of a character, in my opinion.

 

Just my two cents.

 

Well to fit to type they'd end up with aasexual gay KISA or a gay KISA who can't have sex with them if we're keeping with the traditional KISA. 

 

Not even a little bit of peril...

 

[Nefla]

The fact that no one can agree on what a KISA actually is makes me think we wont even get an attempt at one

[FadelessRipley]

 
Regarding the archetypes of the LI's we've had up to this point, the gay knight in shining armor is one that has yet to be explored. The idea of a strong, virtuous, noble human warrior with strong morals has only been made available for opposite sex romance. (Alistair, Cullen, Blackwall, and Cassandra).  They tend to have a 'cute' and somewhat awkward quality about them concerning romance and the PC is implied to be one of (if not their only) romantic partners. It tends to make them seem more "innocent."  

....

Although Aveline isn't a LI, she is also an example of a straight character who fits the knight in shining armor archetype.
 
 ...

So this is a thread asking for a strong, morally noble (not necessarily of noble status, but that would be good too) gay warrior. (Male and female would be great.)

Pretty good definition to me. Main area of debate is can mages be considered. Technically, probably no, but I have a history of mage sympathy, so...

[Zobert]

The fact that no one can agree on what a KISA actually is makes me think we wont even get an attempt at one

 

Alastair the former templar, virgin, honorable, gullible, and soft--BUT fierce in battle, would die for a cause Alastair is the traditional KISA/Paladin/Lawful Good type.

 

I liked him, too. 

 

Scott Summers, Superman, and Captain America fit that description which is why Superman fanboys lost their mind that he had a son in that movie that he left behind for awhile.

[eyezonlyii]

No, I do not think an Arcane warrior would count, and yes it's specifically because they would be a mage. 

 

No Dorian doesn't count because as has been said before, his character description in the game files themselves says "Dashing rogue" while Cassandra's says "Crusader"

 

What is up with everyone trying to not have the KISA be a straight up warrior or at least not a mage? Am I missing something here?

[AresKeith]

A "gay knight" made gay for the sake of being gay's not that good of a character, in my opinion.

 

Just my two cents.

 

Or he'd be a KISA who happens to be gay

[Zobert]

No, I do not think an Arcane warrior would count, and yes it's specifically because they would be a mage. 

 

No Dorian doesn't count because as has been said before, his character description in the game files themselves says "Dashing rogue" while Cassandra's says "Crusader"

 

What is up with everyone trying to not have the KISA be a straight up warrior or at least not a mage? Am I missing something here?

 

There is serious mage prejudice up in this thread. 

[Zobert]

Mages (something I play every time without fail) are still "warriors".  You guys mean "sword wielders".

[FadelessRipley]

I'm not a Superman fan, but that made me giggle. I can just picture the collective meltdown! :-D

I just had a thought that will probably send the thread into meltdown, but...I think what I'd like more than a gay KISA is a gay DiD (Damsel in Distress). Just quoting Sandal's OP made me think of it. My PC is always a KISA in these games.

Basically, I seem to want a gay Princess Peach!

Much as I adore my sometimes-bad girls Leliana and Isabela, it would be nice to play dashing hero to a fair lady. Although, I kinda did that with Josephine, didn't I...

Never mind. This is what staying up till 5am on RPG forums does to you, kids.

[Zobert]

This is a wizard warrior!

 

 

 

 

 

So like if you want a sword wielder like Alastair, cool.  Everyone has a wish list.  I just get my panties bunched with this backhand shade at mages as if they're not warriors (even though many times we carry the party during battle) or its a less noble profession.

 

But people want what they want.  They want "swords" okay...I can get that.

 

I like beards.

 

We all want something.

[FadelessRipley]

No, I do not think an Arcane warrior would count, and yes it's specifically because they would be a mage. 
 
No Dorian doesn't count because as has been said before, his character description in the game files themselves says "Dashing rogue" while Cassandra's says "Crusader"
 
What is up with everyone trying to not have the KISA be a straight up warrior or at least not a mage? Am I missing something here?

In all fairness, the more I think about it, eyezonlyii IS more or less right, really. If we're talking archetype as embodied by Cullen, Alistair and Aveline, mages are out.

"The idea of a strong, virtuous, noble human warrior with strong morals..."

The warrior bit does seem important to OP. I guess also given the history and societal structure of Thedas, it's simply not possible for mages (can't be in military or knighthood positions, excluding wardens of course). Remember, were talking about strictly fitting an archetype here, NOT saying mages can't be strong, brave or morally virtuous!!

[eyezonlyii]

I have nothing against mages, some of my best PC's are mages. But in all honesty, I want a warrior specifically because you NEVER see a gay warrior dude. The gay guys have either been a mage (Dorian) or background (Cortez). Everyone else is bi/pansexual. And yes, I know there have only been two gay Bioware guys, but in the media and even society at large, gay men are hardly seen as physical protectors and defenders much less men of upstanding morality, both of which a KISA is. 

 

As much mage prejudice as you see in this thread, I see anti gay warrior sentiments as well. So yes, taking the term at face value, a mage is a warrior as "one who engages in battle", but when used in the understood class system of the games, then no a mage is not a warrior. A mage may use his body in a battle, but he is not trained in the martial arts (the art of war) as a warrior would be.

[Grieving Natashina]

I have nothing against mages, some of my best PC's are mages. But in all honesty, I want a warrior specifically because you NEVER see a gay warrior dude. The gay guys have either been a mage (Dorian) or background (Cortez). Everyone else is bi/pansexual. And yes, I know there have only been two gay Bioware guys, but in the media and even society at large, gay men are hardly seen as physical protectors and defenders much less men of upstanding morality, both of which a KISA is. 

 

As much mage prejudice as you see in this thread, I see anti gay warrior sentiments as well. So yes, taking the term at face value, a mage is a warrior as "one who engages in battle", but when used in the understood class system of the games, then no a mage is not a warrior. A mage may use his body in a battle, but he is not trained in the martial arts (the art of war) as a warrior would be.

And there's the crux of the matter.  This thread is about ideas, but it's about representation as well.  

 

I have a friend of mine that's gay.  You'd never know it.  He doesn't have the stereotypical "gay" mannerisms with his voice or in his causal physical actions.  He's into guns (expensive ones,) he does firearms safety, loves working on cars and watches (American) football every season.  He prefers jeans and t-shirts, and drives a truck.  He stays in shape, but he isn't perfectly cut or toned.  He also isn't attracted to flamboyant gay men either and finds most of them very annoying.

 

Most of the people he works with knows he's gay, but occasionally he surprises the hell out of someone when he makes an off-hand comment about a hot guy, or talks about his boyfriend.  He's also very snarky at times, and likes shocking people on purpose every once in a rare while. 

 

He's one of the reasons why I think a gay protector, "knight in shining armor," would be great for Dragon Age.  Dorian is awesome, and I know several folks in the thread feel the same way.  Still, we've had our gay/bisexual male supporting roles.  I'd love to see a gay warrior front and center.

 

Sorry for the personal note there, but that's a lot of where I'm coming from on this.  The gay men that would identify with a gay KISA are out there, to one degree or another.  It depends upon how much they like/idolize the archetype I suppose.  I also firmly believe that the writers could turn this into a helluva story.   

 

To your second point, I'm not a big fan of warriors or mages.  I'm a rogue, 99% of the time.  I wanted to try something different.  Playing a tank was fun, but I miss ranged DPS.   I also prefer dwarves, so I have no stake in the templar/mage debate aside from what I'm forced to.  

[daveliam]

I have a question. 

 

If the next game had an Arcane Warrior as a companion, as in wore armor and used a sword as well as magic, would they be considered a KISA?

 

For me, it would really depend on how closely he aligns with the other KISA characteristics.  If he fits closely to the archetype in most other ways and was an arcane warrior, I'd be more inclined to see him as a KISA than Dorian, who fits a few of the KISA characteristics, but his personality type is "dashing rogue", the majority of his personality doesn't align with the KISA type, and he's a support spec'd mage.  I'm not saying a mage could never fit the type.  I'm saying that they would have to align really closely in pretty much every other way for me to count them.  And, yes, the shining armor plays a role in that.

 

I consider DA2 Sebastian to be a play off of a KISA type and he's a rogue.  I also consider Kaidan a KISA, yet he's technically not the 'warrior' class of ME.  Frankly, Sebastian would probably have been a warrior class had they been able to use bows like in DA: O especially since his 'shining armor' is actually commented on in banter.  Kaidan is still a soldier and is on the front-lines of combat in full armor.  Plus, because both of them have personalities that fit really closely, it 'makes up for' the fact that they aren't warriors to a degree.  So if there were an Arcane Warrior who was from an order of Arcane Knights and he was a selfless, chivalrous, do-gooder who wore a suit of armor and carried a one-handed melee weapon while casting spells, I'd probably consider him.  But I can see how others wouldn't. 

 

And there's the crux of the matter.  This thread is about ideas, but it's about representation as well.  

 

I have a friend of mine that's gay.  You'd never know it.  He doesn't have the stereotypical "gay" mannerisms with his voice or in his causal physical actions.  He's into guns (expensive ones,) he does firearms safety, loves working on cars and watches (American) football every season.  He prefers jeans and t-shirts, and drives a truck.  He stays in shape, but he isn't perfectly cut or toned.  He also isn't attracted to flamboyant gay men either and finds most of them very annoying.

 

Most of the people he works with knows he's gay, but occasionally he surprises the hell out of someone when he makes an off-hand comment about a hot guy, or talks about his boyfriend.  He's also very snarky at times, and likes shocking people on purpose every once in a rare while. 

 

He's one of the reasons why I think a gay protector, "knight in shining armor," would be great for Dragon Age.  Dorian is awesome, and I know several folks in the thread feel the same way.  Still, we've had our gay/bisexual male supporting roles.  I'd love to see a gay warrior front and center.

 

Sorry for the personal note there, but that's a lot of where I'm coming from on this.  The gay men that would identify with a gay KISA are out there, to one degree or another.  It depends upon how much they like/idolize the archetype I suppose.  I also firmly believe that the writers could turn this into a helluva story.   

 

To your second point, I'm not a big fan of warriors or mages.  I'm a rogue, 99% of the time.  I wanted to try something different.  Playing a tank was fun, but I miss ranged DPS.   I also prefer dwarves, so I have no stake in the templar/mage debate aside from what I'm forced to.  

 

Yeeeeeeeesssssss! To all of this post.  Nata rocks at summarizing things!

[SardaukarElite]

A "gay knight" made gay for the sake of being gay's not that good of a character, in my opinion.

 

Just my two cents.

 

This attitude is as inane as it is prolific.

 

Nobody worries about a knight being made a knight for the sake of being a knight. Yet if a character is a knight chances are it's because the writer thought knights were cool and interesting - they probably built an entire world so that knights could run around being knights for the sake of being knights. People create from what they find interesting, making it good comes as part of the creative process.

 

Some people find gay characters interesting, they want stories about gay characters because they'll find them more interesting. Of course making a character gay won't make them good by default, but neither will making them short, or a musician or curly haired, or fond of insects or any of the other things a character simply is.