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The gay knight in shining armor


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#2951
Lady Artifice

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That would be wonderful, for either gender!  That was one of the things I loved the most about Bull's romance: The amount of jokes the Inquisitor and Bull can crack together.  He's got a great sense of humor and one that I think is overall needed for a good gay KISA at this point.  I've mentioned this in this thread before, but too many folks associate Lawful Good with "stick-in-the-mud" when it comes to the knight archetype.  They can have duty and honor and all of those qualities we've talked about before, but in games and in life, I want someone that can make me laugh.

 

Absolutely, and I see that stipulation included with the request for this archetype pretty often. 

 

It seems like the model for the concept is most often Alistair, whose just brimming with compassion and badassery and an irrepressible sense of humor. Still, he's not a fully white knight. As I recall he doesn't offer disapproval points for agreeing to work with a guild of assassins, for example. 

 

I wonder if maybe the most common alignment being associated here isn't actually Lawful good, but rather Neutral or Chaotic good? 

 

But regardless, a selfless and noble character can still be fun loving, and that would be delightful to have in a future companion in general. I have a few character concepts I'm working on for my ideal next set, for the fun of it. It includes two KISA types, one of each gender. Exclusive availability to male PCs would work for the male KISA, and availability to both male and female PCs would really work for the female.



#2952
Grieving Natashina

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I mainly use the old-school D&D alignments for simplicity sake, since it's easy to go LG Paladin = KISA.  The D&D alignments don't 100% work for Dragon Age, since even the "shiniest" LI has some shades of grey.  Those might technically count as an alignment break according to some DMs.  However, as far as personal alignment goes, I would prefer someone that's closer to the side of the law.  I think of a less stoic version of Aveline when it comes to Law and Order.  


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#2953
eyezonlyii

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So we've added in a 'noble reformer Chevalier' to the list of gay/lesbian KISA's that we've conceptualized:

* LoD (or Rock-Knocker) dwarf KISA

* Nevarran Dragon Hunter KISA

* Lady Qunari Blacksmith KISA

* Grand Tourney Marcher KISA

* Noble Reformer Chevalier KISA

 

I've seen people talking about a templar KISA, an ancient elf KISA, a Tevinter gladiator KISA, and a city elf squire KISA, but no one has tried to flesh them out at all.  Anyone want to try to take a stab at them?  Who are they?  What is their motivation?  Let's keep building our gay KISA ranks!

Anaxartes Darium had just started serving with the Templar Order in the months prior to the Breach. As everyone knows, Templars are really only enforcers of the rule of the Magistarium, so when there was a scuffle at the estate of one Magister Tilani's they were called in as "protection". What he witnessed there, however was nothing short of miraculous. Warriors, who could not only fight off the attacking magisters, but were able to disrupt their spellcasting completely!  Unheard of! When he approached the leader of the resistance, Anaxartes was shocked to learn that this woman, Ser Belinda Darrow, was a Templar. Like him. He has since vowed to bring THIS Templar Order to Tevinter so that one day the chant of light shall ring true: "Magic must serve man and never rule over him."


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#2954
Hanako Ikezawa

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Absolutely, and I see that stipulation included with the request for this archetype pretty often. 

 

It seems like the model for the concept is most often Alistair, whose just brimming with compassion and badassery and an irrepressible sense of humor. Still, he's not a fully white knight. As I recall he doesn't offer disapproval points for agreeing to work with a guild of assassins, for example. 

 

I wonder if maybe the most common alignment being associated here isn't actually Lawful good, but rather Neutral or Chaotic good? 

 

But regardless, a selfless and noble character can still be fun loving, and that would be delightful to have in a future companion in general. I have a few character concepts I'm working on for my ideal next set, for the fun of it. It includes two KISA types, one of each gender. Exclusive availability to male PCs would work for the male KISA, and availability to both male and female PCs would really work for the female.

I'd say that most KISAs listed here have been Lawful Neutral. They either operate by their own code or go by other codes but let some things slide. 



#2955
BraveVesperia

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If I were to romance a female KISA, I'd really like her to be a more extroverted and charismatic type of character. Both of the more knightly female companions we've had in the past have been fairly stoic and stern. A fierce Valkyrie type with a keen sense of humor, that would be my ideal. 

That would be wonderful, for either gender!  That was one of the things I loved the most about Bull's romance: The amount of jokes the Inquisitor and Bull can crack together.  He's got a great sense of humor and one that I think is overall needed for a good gay KISA at this point.  I've mentioned this in this thread before, but too many folks associate Lawful Good with "stick-in-the-mud" when it comes to the knight archetype.  They can have duty and honor and all of those qualities we've talked about before, but in games and in life, I want someone that can make me laugh.

I'd love that! I mean, I'd love an Aveline/Cass type too, but it would be really great to have one that's more fun/jokey. Kind of reminds me of Sigrun. She was dedicated to the Legion's purpose and honour, kind and moral, but great fun too. She'd fool around with companions in banter, was really friendly and easy-going for the Warden to talk to.


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#2956
Iadro

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Another sketch of the Tevinter Centurion. I'm thinking of "Marcus Julius Sicarius" as a tentative name - Marc for short.

 

Spoiler


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#2957
XMissWooX

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I'm sure you've already discussed this (in 119 pages!), but a Chevalier ought to work quite well:
Noble: They come from noble families, so they have noble blood and had noble upbringings.
Chivalrous: They are taught a code of chivalry and honour which they must adhere to (or die).
Righteous: They are (supposed to be) morally good, pledged to help protect the weak and innocent.
Loyal: They are loyal to the Empire, it's people and whomever's cause they follow.
Knights: They are probably the closest equivalent to real-life Knights. They also wear shiny armour. ;)

Plus, we don't know all that much about Chevaliers and we haven't had many Orlesian companions, so they would certainly be interesting and unique.
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#2958
Zobert

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I'm sure you've already discussed this (in 119 pages!), but a Chevalier ought to work quite well:
Noble: They come from noble families, so they have noble blood and had noble upbringings.
Chivalrous: They are taught a code of chivalry and honour which they must adhere to (or die).
Righteous: They are (supposed to be) morally good, pledged to help protect the weak and innocent.
Loyal: They are loyal to the Empire, it's people and whomever's cause they follow.
Knights: They are probably the closest equivalent to real-life Knights. They also wear shiny armour. ;)

Plus, we don't know all that much about Chevaliers and we haven't had many Orlesian companions, so they would certainly be interesting and unique.

 

He could be the chevalier who doesn't rape the elven alienages and tries to stop his other recruits and maybe is injured and that's how we get him?



#2959
XMissWooX

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He could be the chevalier who doesn't rape the elven alienages and tries to stop his other recruits and maybe is injured and that's how we get him?

That would be quite heartwarming to see.

It could also play out as part of their story arc - perhaps they are assigned to help the Player Character in their task, but start out as somewhat uncaring and superior, happy to take advantage of those weaker than themelves.
As the game progresses and they spend time with the PC, the PC can either:
1) Reinforce their beliefs, adding to the idea that they are better than everyone else and leading to a more callous personality.
2) Challenge their beliefs, setting an example by helping others and leading to a more compassionate personality.

Their character development could also occur entirely independent of the PC - they simply begin to care more as they spend more time interacting with the poor, growing into a true KISA model.

#2960
Zobert

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Anyone see Platoon?  I haven't seen it in ages, but the Elias (sp?) character who rebelled against the massacre and raping and got left behind because he was too soft.

 

I think a Chevalier who is a true KISA would rebel against what they were doing and thus set him up for being hurt by his own "people" and so that would bring him "low" enough pride wise to not care if he ended up with a "rag tag group of adventurers".

 

(This could be a "she" too, but you don't really hear a lot about women raping people in groups)



#2961
Hanako Ikezawa

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A Chevalier immediately doesn't count as a KISA because they have to commit murder to become a Chevalier. Committing murder goes against being a KISA. 

 

 

Anyone see Platoon?  I haven't seen it in ages, but the Elias (sp?) character who rebelled against the massacre and raping and got left behind because he was too soft.

I have. Terrible movie. Had a good soundtrack though. 



#2962
daveliam

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A Chevalier immediately doesn't count as a KISA because they have to commit murder to become a Chevalier. Committing murder goes against being a KISA. 

 

There are ways to work around this.  You can play with the KISA trope in several ways.  I could see a situation where a chevalier goes along with the initiation but, as s/he sees the corruption in the ranks, has a change of heart and then vows to reform the order to it's past glory.  I could also see a situation where a chevalier doesn't go through with the initiation, but people think that they have and they can work from within to reform the order.  I don't think that being associated with the chevaliers is an immediate deal breaker because there are ways to work around it with creative writing. 


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#2963
Hellion Rex

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Well, all info seems to point to us heading North for the next game, so I'm realistically kinda moving on from the Chevalier possibility. After Jaws of Hakkon, I am kinda digging the hot barbarian type lol. They can be KISA's too, right?

;)


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#2964
daveliam

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Moving north works for me.  After all, Kal-Shirok is to the north, which means we can just switch LoD for Rock-Knocker and I can get a gay dwarf AND KISA all in one!  Or, hell, Nevarra is to the north too, so that leaves a minor noble Pentaghast Dragon Hunter as a possibility as well!


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#2965
sandalisthemaker

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Well, all info seems to point to us heading North for the next game, so I'm realistically kinda moving on from the Chevalier possibility. After Jaws of Hakkon, I am kinda digging the hot barbarian type lol. They can be KISA's too, right?

;)

 

I think BioWare could find a way to make a barbarian with KISA qualities.  Everyone expects a barbarian to be fearsome and lawless, but what if he/she had a code of honor?  What if he/she was actually a big gentle softy on the inside?  Would it be a perfect match? Probably not, but I'll take a gay warrior if they give one to us.  Definitely. 


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#2966
sandalisthemaker

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Well, here is are my tentative thoughts for my Tevinter Centurion KISA:

 

The way I imagined it to be so...

 

The Qunari War has broken out some thirty-odd years after Inquisition. The Arishok, aiming for a quick and decisive victory, launches a surprise assault on the eastern-most Tevinter city of Qarinus with a fleet of fifty dreadnaughts and almost one hundred converted merchantmen. Long hidden islands in the Par Vollen Archipelago are revealed to be well-stocked armouries and shipyards, which begin pumping out dreadnaught after dreadnaught, cannon after cannon. The overwhelming naval superiority of the Qunari leads to an early, yet bloody victory against Tevinter (which subsequently fractures into its component city-states after the assassination of the Archon) as well as near complete naval supremacy in the North Amaranthine Sea, and emboldened the Qunari press on in a nearly unstoppable tide south.

 

Rivain's government and armed forces, weakened by the Circle Purge and dearth of traditional seers and wise women, capitulates quickly, and the Qunari seize all of the country and manage footholds in two-thirds of Antiva. In the mean time, Qunari agents in the rest of Southern Thedas (guess we should have paid more attention in actively monitoring them, huh?) stage coups and uprisings, slowing down a mounted armed counter-attack against the Qunari. But a new Exalted March under Divine Victoria is nonetheless declared, and the united Andrastian forces of Thedas move sluggishly to meet the Qunari in battle.

 

The Qunari did not have it all their way. They did not receive an quick, decisive victory, yet their territorial gains, coupled with their swollen army from the mass conversion of bas via qamek, has made them able to entrench their position.

 

It is now the seventh year of the Qunari War. There are children today who do not remember a time when we were not at war with the grey-skinned giants. And that is where our Centurion comes in.

 

A man who cut his teeth in the early Qunari incursions, a man who has known the loss of nearly everything familiar. A man who has spent his fighting life immersed in the seemingly endless days of war, where what honor men held in the last Age is slowly whittled down by Qunari gaatlok and the selfish power plays of the remaining Magisters. You find him in Vyrantium, where the bored nobles of that fortified Tevinter stronghold spend their days creating mock battles in their famed Arena, sating the bloodlust of a crowd jaded beyond belief at the war outside the walls. He has a soldier's honor and pragmatism. He's not out for some grand heroic stand or to make a statement. In fact, he's a little dismissive of the showboating PC. Who does he/she think they are, strolling into Vyrantium like they have all the answers?

 

But he's also a loyal one, provided you earn his trust. There's a series of disappearances going on under the Arena. Not many know that underneath the sanded floors lies a mazelike catacomb of secret passages, cells, and disused chambers that hold beasts, prisoners, and shades of the lost. A friend of the Centurion has been kidnapped, and should you offer your assistance, and solve this most sanguine of mysteries, he will join you in your endeavours.    

 

This is a very well thought out and awesome scenario BTW. 


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#2967
Hellion Rex

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Moving north works for me.  After all, Kal-Shirok is to the north, which means we can just switch LoD for Rock-Knocker and I can get a gay dwarf AND KISA all in one!  Or, hell, Nevarra is to the north too, so that leaves a minor noble Pentaghast Dragon Hunter as a possibility as well!

It's brilliant, brilliant, brilliant, I tell you! Genius, I say!


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#2968
Hanako Ikezawa

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There are ways to work around this.  You can play with the KISA trope in several ways.  I could see a situation where a chevalier goes along with the initiation but, as s/he sees the corruption in the ranks, has a change of heart and then vows to reform the order to it's past glory.  I could also see a situation where a chevalier doesn't go through with the initiation, but people think that they have and they can work from within to reform the order.  I don't think that being associated with the chevaliers is an immediate deal breaker because there are ways to work around it with creative writing. 

I don't think they'll do the whole "People think this person is part of this order when really they aren't" thing again, at least not for a while since they just did it with Rainier. 

 

It may not be for you, but it would be for me. They could be the nicest person on the planet and I end up loving them despite being a Chevalier, but I wouldn't call them a KISA. 



#2969
eyezonlyii

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I don't think they'll do the whole "People think this person is part of this order when really they aren't" thing again, at least not for a while since they just did it with Rainier. 

 

It may not be for you, but it would be for me. They could be the nicest person on the planet and I end up loving them despite being a Chevalier, but I wouldn't call them a KISA. 

Is it mandated that all Chevaliers do this? I mean Orlais is a large country, you could always say that there is an arm of the Order that doesn't do this and has no knowledge of that "ritual". If it's anything like a fraternity, then there are sets of rules that are nationally mandated, yet each chapter and region adds their own little flair to it.


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#2970
Hanako Ikezawa

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Is it mandated that all Chevaliers do this? I mean Orlais is a large country, you could always say that there is an arm of the Order that doesn't do this and has no knowledge of that "ritual". If it's anything like a fraternity, then there are sets of rules that are nationally mandated, yet each chapter and region adds their own little flair to it.

With the current information we have, it is a part of their initiation. Similar to how part of the Spartan's initiation was pretty much exactly the same thing, the only difference is the Spartan initiate wasn't to be seen or caught whereas the Chevalier initiates can be seen doing it for all their superiors care. 

 

If a game presents new data that says it isn't mandatory, my opinion is open to change. 



#2971
eyezonlyii

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With the current information we have, it is a part of their initiation. Similar to how part of the Spartan's initiation was pretty much exactly the same thing, the only difference is the Spartan initiate wasn't to be seen or caught whereas the Chevalier initiates can be seen doing it for all their superiors care. 

 

If a game presents new data that says it isn't mandatory, my opinion is open to change. 

I read the wiki, and all it says is that some abuse their power (and that they're above the law, but then again, so are the Wardens). Is it in a book that says they must do this?



#2972
daveliam

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I don't think they'll do the whole "People think this person is part of this order when really they aren't" thing again, at least not for a while since they just did it with Rainier.

 

I didn't mean that s/he would be pretending to be a chevalier.  More like, the order thinks that they completed the initiation, but the chevalier actually let the elf go or helped them to go into hiding or something like that. 

 

Plus, as eyez said, we don't know for sure that it's a requirement for every single chevalier at this point.  It might be the case, but I don't think it's set that it's a requirement for everyone.  Doesn't that seem unrealistic? How many chevaliers are there?  Did all of them commit a murder on an alienage elf to get where they are? 



#2973
XMissWooX

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I didn't realise there was a murder-initiation-thing for the Chevaliers.
Still, there are so many spins you could put on that - KISA acted in self-defence, presented an existing corpse, killed a criminal, etc.
Or, as I mentioned earlier, you could have a Chevalier who did bad things in their past, but came to regret them and grew into the KISA role instead.
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#2974
eyezonlyii

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Look what I found!

 

Spoiler

In tags because by Jove it's huge.



#2975
Iadro

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This is a very well thought out and awesome scenario BTW. 

 

Thank you! I have so many ideas for Dragon Age 4 that have spun off from this Centurion - the setting of the game around the islands of the Nocen Sea, the role of the Felicisma Armada as both hindrance and valuable aid relief transport (by now led by a certain legendary Rivainni Pirate Queen), an enterprising "new blood" Magister looking to make an entirely different sort of Imperium, the role of the PC as a very lucky Helmsman, saved by a certain Witch of the Weyrs (come on, did anyone think Alistair killed her for real?) and sent to look for the last route to Arlathan, a mythical land which may contain the power to move this dreadful stalemated Qunari War one way or the other.

 

The themes of the costs of patriotism and proto-nationalism as every nation under both White and Black Divines spur on their peoples to fight, and the Qunari no less fanatical. The drive to move and sacrifice everything... in search of a better world. 

 

The return of Solas, now so much wiser and infinitely grieved at how the world has changed. As all of Thedas rushes forward towards an endless conflict, from the very beginning of the Elvhen Mythos...

 

...Arlathan Beckons. But these are all tentative and in the air, so all I can say is... thank you. :) 


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