7154 réponses à ce sujet

[Grieving Natashina]

Huh?

 

Let's try that again:

 

Anders is listed as bisexual according to David Gaider.  There is no playersexuality and unless Patrick Weekes overrides DG's words, that still stands.  In fact, most of us in here know a very unhappy poster because DG said that all of the companions are bisexual.  I'll repeat, there is no playersexuality.  Anders is bi no matter what, he just doesn't tell a female Hawke.   His authors decided that, for whatever stupid as hell reason, Anders wouldn't be comfortable telling a female Hawke that he likes men as well as women.

 

Zevran--Promiscuous assassin, tries to kill you upon meeting

Leliana--Former bard with a very dark past

Anders--Blows up the Chantry

Merrill--Blood mage

Fenris--Former slave with anger issues

Isabela--Promiscuous pirate

Bull--Promiscuous merc 

Dorian--Rebel Tevinter mage

Sera--Red Jenny

 

Josie is one of the only LGBT characters I can think of in DA that's not shady in some fashion.  

 

Here's what I'd like to know...where is all the characters like Aveline, Cullen, Blackwall that are LGBT?  Right, they don't exist.

 

That's why this thread exists.  The class means a lot to some of the posters, including me, but having someone with the qualities of Aveline, Cullen, ect that isn't straight would be brand new for Dragon Age.

[eyezonlyii]

Do you mean in games/movies in general?  Because I think Bioware has avoided making the gay characters shady.  The straight people are more apt to be evil, with Marjolaine being an exception.

 

I say that because Anders is playersexual, so...

 

Solas is

Spoiler

shady shade shade

Morrigan is

Spoiler

I love her but shady

Flemeth is _____

Anora is a huge ******

Loghain is ambiguous but I remember Ostagar differently so...shady!

Sister Patrice (beats Corphy for villain)

Corphy doesn't have a boyfriend so I'll assume he's asexual or straight

I counter with:

Zevran,an assassin for hire, who alluded to only sleeping with men because the job brought him to it

Lelianna, a former Bard who may or may not have traded sexual favors for mission completions, currently serving as the Spymaster of an extra national organization, and previously Left Hand of the Divine (the fact that she was the left hand should be a tip off, because in most RL cultures, especially that of Christian heritage, the Left side is the side of the Devil, it's why Jesus sits at the right hand of the Father)

Anders, (who is not playersexual as per WoG)

Fenris (again bisexual)

Isabella, a pirate queen who stole a Holy Relic from the most dangerous antagonistic force that Thedas is facing.

Merrill, a blood mage (whatever your personal feelings on the matter, it's very frowned upon in lore) who is willing to defy her clan for a piece of the past

and now

Sera and Bull, maybe Dorian if you can't get past the fact that he doesn't see slavery as wrong.

[Zobert]

Huh?

 

Let's try that again:

 

Anders is listed as bisexual according to David Gaider.  There is no playersexuality and unless Patrick Weekes overrides DG's words, that still stands.  In fact, most of us in here know a very unhappy poster because DG said that all of the companions are bisexual.  I'll repeat, there is no playersexuality.  Anders is bi no matter what, he just doesn't tell a female Hawke.

 

Zevran--Promiscuous assassun, tries to kill you upon meeting

Leliana--Former bard with a very dark past

Anders--Is bisexual and blows up the Chantry

Merrill--Blood mage

Fenris--Former slave with anger issues

Isabela--Promiscuous pirate

Bull--Promiscuous merc 

Dorian--Rebel Tevinter mage

Sera--Red Jenny

 

Every single person I just mentioned is LGBT, and has a shady past.

 

Anders was or at least pretended to be straight in Awakenings so ...

 

DA2 felt playersexual and you're also listing companions which are sorta supposed to be heroes, I can't see where Isabella is bad or Doria or Bull or....if you mean promiscuity then I still don't see because in the DA universe isn't seen from a negative POV.

 

I don't see being a HSOTD as ranking with trying to steal souls, enslaving elves, or trying to destroy the world.

[BabyPuncher]

Within the context of the setting, Grey Wardens are considered to default as extremely competent combatants. It's a prerequisite for being one. Admittedly, the term I used is subject to opinion, but considering that Alistair is one of the people capable of killing an Archdemon, I'd suggest that it's a pretty reasonable opinion for me to have.

As for your other nitpick, why is this a matter of contention? The common perception of a Knight is a warrior, not a magic user.

 

First of all, that pretty much applies to every BioWare companion in some form of fashion. If they don't start out with (supposed) super-duper skills or membership to the elite club of People Who Kick Butt, they have it by the end of the story. Turns 'badassery' into a meaningless word rather quickly, don't you think? When it applies to every companion in every BioWare game?

 

Secondly, it's not my nitpick. It's yours. I'm not the one claiming a character needs to be wearing armor to fulfill a certain archetype. You are.

[Zobert]

I counter with:

Zevran,an assassin for hire, who alluded to only sleeping with men because the job brought him to it

Lelianna, a former Bard who may or may not have traded sexual favors for mission completions, currently serving as the Spymaster of an extra national organization, and previously Left Hand of the Divine (the fact that she was the left hand should be a tip off, because in most RL cultures, especially that of Christian heritage, the Left side is the side of the Devil, it's why Jesus sits at the right hand of the Father)

Anders, (who is not playersexual as per WoG)

Fenris (again bisexual)

Isabella, a pirate queen who stole a Holy Relic from the most dangerous antagonistic force that Thedas is facing.

Merrill, a blood mage (whatever your personal feelings on the matter, it's very frowned upon in lore) who is willing to defy her clan for a piece of the past

and now

Sera and Bull, maybe Dorian if you can't get past the fact that he doesn't see slavery as wrong.

 

Again, are we missing they're all heroes?  They're with me slaying archdemons, saving Kirkwall, etc.

[Hellion Rex]

Anders was or at least pretended to be straight in Awakenings so ...

Ummmm, not really. Just because he doesn't advertise that he likes men doesn't invalidate his bisexuality. He never "pretended".

[Lady Artifice]

Zevran - assassin
 
The only LGBT LI's who aren't on the shady side are:
 
Merrill, Dorian, and Josephine

And even then one is a blood mage and another a necromancer from a place with a rather naughty reputation, so in terms of perception...

[daveliam]

Anders was or at least pretended to be straight in Awakenings so ...

 

Aren't you bisexual?  You should understand that a person doesn't need to shout their bisexuality to the heavens in order to 'count' as bisexual.  Anders never claims to be straight, so he's not pretending about anything.  He mentions a handful of times how he appreciates women.  And, in DA2, he still appreciates women.  Gaider himself, who wrote Anders in DA: A, has confirmed that he was bisexual from conceptualization. 

[Grieving Natashina]

Anders never pretended to be straight.  He only commented on women in Awakening, but that didn't make him straight.  According to David Gaider, who wrote the character, he was intended to be bisexual from conception.  Yes, he was bisexual back in Awakening.  This was confirmed over two years ago.  

 

All of the companions in DA2 were confirmed as bisexual and yes, folks declared it to be "unrealistic."  Playersexual means that their sexuality changed depending upon the gender of the player.  That's not true; again, according to WoG, they were always bisexual.

 

As far as the rest of your point, others have gone into further detail than I did.  Also, you were able to name 3 straight companions that were "shady" in some way.   I just listed nine, 2 of who started the Qunari attack on Kirkwall (Isabela) and one that blew up the Chantry (Anders.)  

 

Morrigan--Agreed

Solas--You're wrong and if you do his romance

 

Spoiler

That goes counter to him removing the blood writing from the LI, because it's slave marks.  He wants to free the elves.  That's why he sealed away the elven "gods" in the first place.  To free the elves from slavery.

[eyezonlyii]

Again, are we missing they're all heroes?  They're with me slaying archdemons, saving Kirkwall, etc.

That doesn't mean the negative isn't there. It just means they're saving the world now. But more to the point, It's Isabella's fault that the Qunari are even in Kirwall. It's Ander's fault that the mage/templar war kicked off, it's Merrill's (albeit indirect) fault that her clan lost at the very least their Keeper, let alone if Hawke slaughtered them all. Fenris doesn't have a huge problem here, as he's running from a Magister, and as pointed out, Zevran tries to kill you upon meeting and Lelianna has one of the darkest pasts available. 

[daveliam]

Again, are we missing they're all heroes?  They're with me slaying archdemons, saving Kirkwall, etc.

 

No one is saying that they aren't 'heroes' or that they are 'bad'.  We are saying that they have some shadiness in their past or current stories.  The only LGBT character who is pretty much universally accepted as not being shady is Josephine (even though she was a Bard and killed a guy; it was in self-defense, by accident; and frankly, she was more of a spoiled rich girl playing pretend). 

 

And even then one is a blood mage and another a necromancer from a place with a rather naughty reputation, so in terms of perception...

 

Yeah, I forgot about the blood magic.  Dorian's pretty damned 'good', although there are definitely some who would argue he's not because of his views on slavery.

[eyezonlyii]

Also part and parcel to the KISA being the moral center of the group, is the fact that he or she is usually the center of plot as well. Alistair, was a Warden who could be put on the Throne, Anders was carrying Justice around in his head and Aveline was a guard dealing with the cesspool that was Kirkwall. You could even through Cullen in there for DA:2 as his presence was felt throughout the acts. In Inquisition you have Cassandra who is the party face and again Cullen in for the advisers and Red Templar plot.

[Grieving Natashina]

If we say a character isn't a KISA, we aren't saying that they are bad characters.  Most of think that many of the LGBT characters in Dragon Age are heroes.  We're not insulting them either.  I'm not sure where this is coming from.  Most of us don't hate the previous LGBT characters and some of us are huge fans of a number of them.  

 

 We're asking for a knight that isn't straight.  Every Templar/guard/Seeker, ect ect that has been in our party/one of our advisers has been straight.  It would be nice to have one that wasn't, and available as a LI.  That's all.  

[BabyPuncher]

We're asking for a knight that isn't straight.  Every Templar/guard/Seeker, ect ect that has been in our party/one of our advisers has been straight.  It would be nice to have one that wasn't, and available as a LI.  That's all.  

 

Maybe you should consider that there's more to a character than what armor they wear.

 

I really doubt that is 'all.' It's certainly possible to have characters in armor that are vapid and useless.

 

[Zobert]

Wait a sec, totally OT, but if everyone in DA2 (sans expansion) that's romanceable is bi then maybe straight dudes and chicks and straight gays and lesbians were right to complain about no representation because bisexuality is its own orientation.

 

So back to KISAs...how did the original Aveline become a Chevalier if she was required to murder and rape some elves?

 

I think once upon a time maybe this was not the case.

[(Disgusted noise.)]

Yeah, the guy who's wanting to reform his evil homeland is sooooo shady.

[Lady Artifice]

First of all, that pretty much applies to every BioWare companion in some form of fashion. If they don't start out with (supposed) super-duper skills or membership to the elite club of People Who Kick Butt, they have it by the end of the story. Turns 'badassery' into a meaningless word rather quickly, don't you think? When it applies to every companion in every BioWare game?
 
Secondly, it's not my nitpick. It's yours. I'm not the one claiming a character needs to be wearing armor to fulfill a certain archetype. You are.

No, I don't think so.

Any of our companions could be called Badass by my standards it's true, distinguishing them from most NPCs. There are degrees of matial competence as well.

Leandra Hawke = not badass

Bann Teagan = a little badass

Alistair Theirin = very badass

The term I used was a matter of opinion, as subjective as calling someone beautiful. Subjective terms aren't rendered obsolete just because they're debatable. I feel okay about my choice of words...I barely understand why we're arguing about it.

As for the other thing, yes I am. The word Knight brings to mind a melee fighter for me. I think I can safely venture that I'm not alone in that. Besides, a part of the spirit of this request, at least as far as a male KISA goes, has a lot to do with the perceived "masculinity" of the character. We can argue Semantics all day, but until we try to move past phrasing and focus on intent, we're not going to get anywhere.

[Lady Artifice]

Yeah, the guy who's wanting to reform is evil homeland is sooooo shady.

I don't think that.

I was talking about public perception. I know Dorian is about as Paragon as they come.

[daveliam]

Wait a sec, totally OT, but if everyone in DA2 (sans expansion) that's romanceable is bi then maybe straight dudes and chicks and straight gays and lesbians were right to complain about no representation because bisexuality is its own orientation.

 

The party in DA 2 had 9 characters:

Straight males - Carver, Varric, Sebastian

Straight females - Bethany, Aveline

Bisexual males - Anders, Fenris

Bisexual females - Isabela, Merrill

 

Outside of the lack of gay and lesbian characters in the main party, there was a variety of representation.

 

So back to KISAs...how did the original Aveline become a Chevalier if she was required to murder and rape some elves?

 

I think once upon a time maybe this was not the case.

 

Hence why I think that a KISA chevalier could work if s/he is working to restore the order back to it's former (non-elf murdering) glory.

[Zobert]

Maybe you should consider that there's more to a character than what armor they wear.

 

I really doubt that is 'all.' It's certainly possible to have characters in armor that are vapid and useless.

 

Yes, Oghren for example.  I think they mean a sword wielder.  Everyone has a preference.  I like people with long hair, male or female.  It doesn't need to make sense.  People want what they want.

 

It's never wrong to ask for what you want.

[Grieving Natashina]

Yeah, the guy who's wanting to reform is evil homeland is sooooo shady.

I'll admit, that's a case of YMMV.  Some very well could see him as shady by working with Alexius on time magic.  I've also read folks say that he's shady because his family owns slaves.  A few tried to state that Dorian himself owns slaves, but he said he didn't.   When it comes to Dorian being any sort of shady, that is very subjective.  I don't feel that way myself.

 

 

I don't think that. 

I was talking about public perception. I know Dorian is about as Paragon as they come.

Same here.

[daveliam]

Yeah, the guy who's wanting to reform is evil homeland is sooooo shady.

 

I don't think that Dorian is shady.  But he doesn't really have that much of an issue with slavery.  You can argue that it's part of his culture, but he kind of hand-waves it away when you first talk to him about it.  I'll say this:  If the next game takes place in Tevinter and he's returned to 'reform' Tevinter, I would not be surprised to see that he owns slaves.  He might not; but he might.  I haven't seen anything from him to indicate that he's totally 100% against it. 

[AresKeith]

Maybe you should consider that there's more to a character than what armor they wear.

 

I really doubt that is 'all.' It's certainly possible to have characters in armor that are vapid and useless.

 

Obviously they know that

[Zobert]

Ummmm, not really. Just because he doesn't advertise that he likes men doesn't invalidate his bisexuality. He never "pretended".

 

 

Would you try to date a guy that only spoke about women to you?  I dunno.  I look for signs in people.  If they're not giving off hints I tend to assume to be on the safe side.  Kinda like feeling people out about being married or in a relationship.

[eyezonlyii]

Doesn't have to be sword and board. I could be alright with a twohanded weapon or polearm. Though dual wielding is pushing it.