7155 réponses à ce sujet

[Hanako Ikezawa]

How did she get into the tourney without being a Chevalier?

The tournament wasn't for Chevaliers only. Anyone who could fight could enter. 

Rainier participated in Grand Tourneys, and he was never a Chevalier. He wasn't even a soldier. 

[Grieving Natashina]

He is pretending to be somebody he is not and uses it to trick people into doing things, like using the Warden treaties when he isn't a Warden.

Regardless of intentions, that is shady. 

I know you don't like him, but I still consider him a KISA type more than most of the non-hetero characters we've gotten up to this point.   Also, I don't consider that shady because he wasn't doing it for personal gain or desire, he was doing it to help stop Corypheus.

 

May we just agree to disagree?  There has been enough OT debates today.  

[Hanako Ikezawa]

I know you don't like him, but I still consider him a KISA type more than most of the non-hetero characters we've gotten up to this point.   Also, I don't consider that shady because he wasn't doing it for personal gain or desire, he was doing it to help stop Corypheus.

 

May we just agree to disagree?  There has been enough OT debates today.  

If that doesn't count as shady, than half the people you listed as shady don't count as shady either. 

 

Merrill for example uses blood magic not for personal gain or desire, but to help her people by trying to reclaim part of their past. 

[ThreeF]

I know you don't like him, but I still consider him a KISA type more than most of the non-hetero characters we've gotten up to this point.   Also, I don't consider that shady because he wasn't doing it for personal gain or desire, he was doing it to help stop Corypheus.

 

May we just agree to disagree?  There has been enough OT debates today.  

He can be seen as a deconstruction of KISA, so this makes it a bit debatable.

[eyezonlyii]

I think of it more as Blackwall never lied, as he was a character that Rainier was playing (at first). The character Blackwall, was a Warden and was a good and honorable man and Rainier, just never stopped method acting until the (almost) final curtain. Though to be fair, I've never played his romance, so I don't have to deal with that scene. However, bae is, and I've been doing everything in my power to keep the big reveal from him. 

[Grieving Natashina]

If that doesn't count as shady, than half the people you listed as shady don't count as shady either. 

 

Merrill for example uses blood magic not for personal gain or desire, but to help her people by trying to reclaim part of their past. 

Hana, I didn't mean to offend you.  I find blood magic shady regardless of the reasons, since Merrill admitted to working with demons.   A Pride demon in fact.  I consider bargaining with a demon far more dark and shady than pretending to be a Warden and using the treaties to stop an Elder One.  

 

He can be seen as a deconstruction of KISA, so this makes it a bit debatable.

The topic has been more about the traditional KISAs, closer to characters like Cassandra or Alistair.  A deconstruction of that archetype is worthy of a discussion, but I think it's starting to move a little OT. 

[Hanako Ikezawa]

Hana, I didn't mean to offend you.  I find blood magic shady regardless of the reasons, since Merrill admitted to working with demons.   A Pride demon in fact.  I consider bargaining with a demon far more dark and shady than pretending to be a Warden and using the treaties to stop an Elder One.  

No offense, but it doesn't matter what you think. The definition of shady is: of doubtful honesty or legality. What Rainier does is literally the definition of being shady.

 

Merrill is at least honest about being a blood mage and working with a demon. 

[ThreeF]

The topic has been more about the traditional KISAs, closer to characters like Cassandra or Alistair.  A deconstruction of that archetype is worthy of a discussion, but I think it's starting to move a little OT. 

I haven't read the whole discussion I'm just commenting on why Blackwall is what he is.

 

I think of it more as Blackwall never lied, as he was a character that Rainier was playing (at first). The character Blackwall, was a Warden and was a good and honorable man and Rainier, just never stopped method acting until the (almost) final curtain.

Yeah, very much this, he is playing a role, not necessary with a dishonest motive,  but it's still a role.

[HuldraDancer]

F**k a Blackwall debate going on??? Really? Rolling out then everyone, will come back later when this is over with.

 

*steals a unicorn and rides away into the rain*

[Hanako Ikezawa]

F**k a Blackwall debate going on??? Really? Rolling out then everyone, will come back later when this is over with.

 

*steals a unicorn and rides away into the rain*

No, it's a "Which characters are shady" discussion. Rainier is just the current one on the chopping block.

[Lady Artifice]

Because if writers think that's all it takes to have players gush over how awesome a character is, that's all they're going to give you. And me.

 

You know, violence is not a tea party. It's not a picnic where we giggle with our friends and punch meanies and bullies in the face. it ought to carry a little more weight in a dramatic story then characters being full of 'badassery.'

 

This is the wall you want to keep banging your head against? My use of the made up word "badassery"? 

 

So...IMO, this just became possibly the silliest debate I've ever engaged in on this forum, and at this point I'm a little embarrassed to have participated at all.  We're just going to have to agree to disagree about this, BabyPuncher. This is base semantics, a fake adjective that I use on occasion when I refer to martial prowess. It has nothing at all do with a the quality of a character or their writing. 

 

I'm not going to rescind my statement that Alistair is presented within the story as highly competent in battle, so we reach an impasse. I'm going to have to drop this from here. I respect too many people who populate this thread to clutter it with a endless back and forth over a subjective word choice. 

[Grieving Natashina]

No offense, but it doesn't matter what you think. The definition of shady is: of doubtful honesty or legality. What Rainier does is literally the definition of being shady.

 

Merrill is at least honest about being a blood mage and working with a demon. 

That's one of the definitions of shady.  It's also been defined as someone with questionable or dubious morality.  Working with demons should count as questionable morality.   I don't care how honest she is, working with demons and using blood magic is far worse than any sort of lying that Blackwall does.  Blackwall isn't risking possession and the lives of everyone around him just by wielding his sword like Merrill does with her magic. .

 

Honesty doesn't make it any better or less amoral.  She worked with demons and used blood magic, against clan law.  Her Keeper begged and told her that blood magic was not the right way, and that it was either her blood magic or the clan.  Merrill left, because she broke clan law.  There is nothing on this earth can convince me that working with demons against her Keeper's wishes is better than pretending to be a Warden and using the treaties to prevent the end of the world.

 

I think Blackwall is more honorable in his actions than Merrill was in hers.  I like both of the characters as well.  Again, we're going to have to agree to disagree.

[Hellion Rex]

I'm curious. If we go North, I keep postulating the types of people we might meet. If it's not Tevinter that we go to, I honestly for some reason have difficulty picturing a game set in Antiva or Rivain.

 

If we go to Rivain...maybe we meet a captain of the Felicisima Armada, perhaps? Or maybe we meet the "noble" son of an Antivan merchant prince?

[Grieving Natashina]

No need to yell.  I saw your post before you edited it.  I'll drop it.  

[Hanako Ikezawa]

That's one of the definitions of shady.  It's also been defined as someone with questionable or dubious morality.  Working with demons should count as questionable morality.   I don't care how honest she is, working with demons and using blood magic is far worse than any sort of lying that Blackwall does.  Blackwall isn't risking possession and the lives of everyone around him just by wielding his sword like Merrill does with her magic. .

 

Honesty doesn't make it any better or less amoral.  She worked with demons and used blood magic, against clan law.  Her Keeper begged and told her that blood magic was not the right way, and that it was either her blood magic or the clan.  Merrill left, because she broke clan law.  There is nothing on this earth can convince me that working with demons against her Keeper's wishes is better than pretending to be a Warden and using the treaties to prevent the end of the world.

 

I think Blackwall is more honorable in his actions than Merrill was in hers.  I like both of the characters as well.  Again, we're going to have to agree to disagree.

You'll notice I never said she wasn't shady. I said if Rainier isn't considered shady, then she and others shouldn't be either. Otherwise you are stacking evidence unfairly to back your point. 

 

Not continuing this. Just felt that point needed clarifying. 

 

 

I'm curious. If we go North, I keep postulating the types of people we might meet. If it's not Tevinter that we go to, I honestly for some reason have difficulty picturing a game set in Antiva or Rivain.

 

If we go to Rivain...maybe we meet a captain of the Felicisima Armada, perhaps? Or maybe we meet the "noble" son of an Antivan merchant prince?

Well, the captain of a pirate ship wouldn't be a KISA. 

 

As for a noble Antivan Merchant Prince, this guy is available. Maybe he is bisexual. 

[ThreeF]

^ is this Josephine's boyfriend? He needs some sleep.

[Grieving Natashina]

^ is this Josephine's boyfriend? He needs some sleep.

Wow, yeah he does.  

[Hanako Ikezawa]

^ is this Josephine's boyfriend? He needs some sleep.

Boyfriend, no. 

Arranged fiance, yes. 

 

Here's a better picture:

[eyezonlyii]

^ is this Josephine's boyfriend? He needs some sleep.

 

 

Wow, yeah he does.  

That's just the look of a man who's traveled forever to find his bride. Also, there may have been libations on the ship.

[Hellion Rex]

Boyfriend, no. 

Arranged fiance, yes. 

 

Here's a better picture:

Hmmm......I'd give him a 6/10. I'd give him a pity bang.

[Grieving Natashina]

Hmmm......I'd give him a 6/10. I'd give him a pity bang.

Ouch.  

 

Going off of pirates in our world, not all of them were scoundrels and thieves.  In fact, many were knighted by the Crown, and followed the King's/Queen's law.  The one downside would be that I can't see a pirate as a sword and shield type warrior.  I think the personality could work, but the armor and weapon would be pretty impractical.  I don't think anyone would want to spend months out on the sea in heavy armor.  Rust and the possibility of drowning tend to put a hamper on that.

[eyezonlyii]

Hmmm......I'd give him a 6/10. I'd give him a pity bang.

Oh...apparently I have low standards...he's a solid 8 to me. 

[AresKeith]

Hmmm......I'd give him a 6/10. I'd give him a pity bang.

 

[Hellion Rex]

Ouch.  

 

Going off of pirates in our world, not all of them were scoundrels and thieves.  In fact, many were knighted by the Crown, and followed the King's/Queen's law.  The one downside would be that I can't see a pirate as a sword and shield type warrior.  I think the personality could work, but the armor and weapon would be pretty impractical.  I don't think anyone would want to spend months out on the sea in heavy armor.  Rust and the possibility of drowning tend to put a hamper on that.

Hmmmmmm, well, Rivain does have royalty...maybe a KISA that works in the King's Navy? I would imagine that the Rivaini has some kind of agreement with the Felicisima Armada, so maybe this guy would be some kind of general or something.

[Grieving Natashina]

Hmmmmmm, well, Rivain does have royalty...maybe a KISA that works in the King's Navy? I would imagine that the Rivaini has some kind of agreement with the Felicisima Armada, so maybe this guy would be some kind of general or something.

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