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[Hellion Rex]

I like you and I would like to subscribe to your newsletter.  

If you buy the deluxe edition, it comes with a free calendar hot, spicy KISA's! Only $10 more!

[Grieving Natashina]

If you buy the deluxe edition, it comes with a free calendar hot, spicy KISA's! Only $10 more!

Knights Gone Wild, Thedas Edition?  Hmmm, I might consider that.  $10 is a reasonable price for a good cause.

 

In all seriousness, I really like your idea.  While we've joked around about a non-hetero pirate before, your idea is feasible.  I also think we're heading up north in the next game, since we've exploded explored as much of the surface part of Southern Thedas as possible.  I think we'll be going to Antiva and Rivain next, so that would be a good time to include such a character.  I don't think we're going to Tevinter just yet.  The Tevinter/Par Vollen story needs more of it's own game imho.

[Hellion Rex]

Knights Gone Wild, Thedas Edition?  Hmmm, I might consider that.  $10 is a reasonable price for a good cause.

 

In all seriousness, I really like your idea.  While we've joked around about a non-hetero pirate before, your idea is feasible.  I also think we're heading up north in the next game, since we've exploded explored as much of the surface part of Southern Thedas as possible.  I think we'll be going to Antiva and Rivain next, so that would be a good time to include such a character.  I don't think we're going to Tevinter just yet.  The Tevinter/Par Vollen story needs more of it's own game imho.

Antiva and Rivain are all ripe with character possibilities. Either way, I hope get a romance who is acquainted with the sea. Maybe take you out on a midnight voyage for a romance scene, perhaps?

[Grieving Natashina]

Antiva and Rivain are all ripe with character possibilities. Either way, I hope get a romance who is acquainted with the sea. Maybe take you out on a midnight voyage for a romance scene, perhaps?

Dang it Elu.  I'm a jaded cynic, but you're making me all mushy over here.  I love your ideas and may I say, it's good to see you around again.  

 

_{I noticed your signature.  Bull is my favorite DA:I romance.  Both my dwarf archer and my human warrior fell head over heels for him.}

[Hellion Rex]

Dang it Elu.  I'm a jaded cynic, but you're making me all mushy over here.  I love your ideas and may I say, it's good to see you around again.  

 

_{I noticed your signature.  Bull is my favorite DA:I romance.  Both my dwarf archer and my human warrior fell head over heels for him.}

A small boat, just the two of you. The waves quietly lap at the boat's edges, while you hold his/her hand. You both simply watch the gleaming stars dance across the sky.

 

Now, I'm all good for a hot ass sex scene, but this is also the type of romance scene that I would love to have.

[Grieving Natashina]

A small boat, just the two of you. The waves quietly lap at the boat's edges, while you hold his/her hand. You both simply watch the gleaming stars dance across the sky.

Okay, it started cute but now I've got "Kiss the Girl" from the Little Mermaid stuck in my head.   Thanks for that.  Time to fire up some Coal Chamber for a mental cleanser.  

[Hellion Rex]

Okay, it started cute but now I've got "Kiss the Girl" from the Little Mermaid stuck in my head.   Thanks for that.  Time to fire up some Coal Chamber for a mental cleanser.  

Dammit, that's not what I was going for.

 

And yes, my signature is a proud claim to the world that I got Iron Bull to say "I love you."

[Grieving Natashina]

Dammit, that's not what I was going for.

 

And yes, my signature is a proud claim to the world that I got Iron Bull to say "I love you."

 It's not your fault I'm a cynical smarta**.  I blame my parents for the latter part.  

[Zobert]

I know you don't like him, but I still consider him a KISA type more than most of the non-hetero characters we've gotten up to this point.   Also, I don't consider that shady because he wasn't doing it for personal gain or desire, he was doing it to help stop Corypheus.

 

May we just agree to disagree?  There has been enough OT debates today.  

 

It's not OT if you're asking for a Blackwall "type".  I don't think he's a KISA.  He's got a most excellent beard though.

 

I don't even think Cullen is as much of one as Alastair.  Cullen still was more ...worldly?   

 

KISAs have always been chaste and virtuous.  Alastair was religious, lived for honor, glory, and was very monogamous and until you seduce him.

 

Blackwall wasn't new to the rodeo and I don't think Cullen is/was either.

[eyezonlyii]

It's not OT if you're asking for a Blackwall "type".  I don't think he's a KISA.  He's got a most excellent beard though.

 

I don't even think Cullen is as much of one as Alastair.  Cullen still was more ...worldly?   

 

KISAs have always been chaste and virtuous.  Alastair was religious, lived for honor, glory, and was very monogamous and until you seduce him.

 

Blackwall wasn't new to the rodeo and I don't think Cullen is/was either.

Cullen is also older in Inquisition than Alistair was in Origins, and had been through so much more, so his lack of naivete is believable. And the only indication of his sex life before Inq was him running away from a female mage in Origins. Also, he does tell the Inquisitor that he hadn't ever found anyone special between what happened in Ferelden and Kirkwall, and his own mental recovery, he just never had the opportunity. And this was to my male Qunari mage. 

[Grieving Natashina]

Cullen is also older in Inquisition than Alistair was in Origins, and had been through so much more, so his lack of naivete is believable. And the only indication of his sex life before Inq was him running away from a female mage in Origins. Also, he does tell the Inquisitor that he hadn't ever found anyone special between what happened in Ferelden and Kirkwall, and his own mental recovery, he just never had the opportunity. And this was to my male Qunari mage. 

Besides, I don't know where in the archetype that states that you have to be a virgin to be a KISA.  Aveline has been considered by a lot of the folks in this thread as one, and she was married (possibly) twice.   Sebastian has been listed as another example, and he admits to having a lot of partners prior to him joining the Chantry.  To me, a KISA doesn't have to be a virgin, but they're also not the type to sleep around on a whim.   

[eyezonlyii]

Besides, I don't know where in the archetype that states that you have to be a virgin to be a KISA.  Aveline has been considered by a lot of the folks in this thread as one, and she was married twice.   Sebastian has been listed as another example, and he admits to having a lot of partners prior to him joining the Chantry.  To me, a KISA doesn't have to be a virgin, but they're also not the type to sleep around on a whim.   

To be fair, on the tvtropes page, it does say something like "charms women without seducing them"

[Lady Artifice]

Besides, I don't know where in the archetype that states that you have to be a virgin to be a KISA.  Aveline has been considered by a lot of the folks in this thread as one, and she was married twice.   Sebastian has been listed as another example, and he admits to having a lot of partners prior to him joining the Chantry.  To me, a KISA doesn't have to be a virgin, but they're also not the type to sleep around on a whim.   

 

Also, if we're looking at the big picture of what a classical KISA is, the chastity thing is erratic. The idea of the chaste white knight is mostly based on Galahad as an icon, but he isn't the only example of the archetype in legend and antiquity. You've got Lancelot, and the rest of the Arthurian court. Outside of that, the code of chivalry was complicated, as I understand it. Some of it wouldn't quite qualify as what most modern audiences would actually deem very chivalrous. 

 

I might be digressing. My point is that even if there are some implications of chastity in this archetype, modern interpretations have moved away from that. 

[Grieving Natashina]

To be fair, on the tvtropes page, it does say something like "charms women without seducing them"

True, but nowhere does it say, "Must be a virgin."  Otherwise, any divorced/widowed character is very unlikely not going to count.  Most folks sleep with their spouses at least once, even in an arranged marriage (heirs and all that.)  Personally, I feel like restricting this to "virgin" is very limiting of the archetype.

 

Edit: Before anyone brings this up, I know there no official Chantry-sanctioned same-sex marriages.  To me, that makes no difference.  A marriage is a long term deep commitment of love, trust and friendship (or at least one of trust for the arranged marriages) between two people, usually monogamous.  A piece of paper or a church official doesn't change that.  So even in Thedas, I think a gay character could be widowed or divorced.  Or even recently left an arranged heterosexual marriage. 

[ThreeF]

Lancelot is not KISA.

 

Strictly speaking KISA is not so much about virginity as about chirvarly romance (this is where the whole King Arthur and Lancelot mess started), where this particular trope first appeared, and courtly love. Courtly love is an idolized form of love:

 

 

an idolization and ennobling discipline. The lover (idolizer) accepts the independence of his mistress and tries to make himself worthy of her by acting bravely and honorably (nobly) and by doing whatever deeds she might desire, subjecting himself to a series of tests (ordeals) to prove to her his ardor and commitment. Sexual satisfaction, Paris said, may not have been a goal or even end result, but the love was not entirely Platonic either, as it was based on sexual attraction.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

Lancelot is not KISA.

Yeah. The only knight in King Arthur's court that is undoubtedly a KISA is Galahad. There are others like Percival and Gawain who can have a strong argument made for them being a KISA(they were seen as worthy enough to accompany Galahad on the quest for the Holy Grail). Other than that the only KISA in Arthurian legend is actually one of the main villains Mordred, once you look at it from his side. But Lancelot is not a KISA, and in fact is one of the furthest of Arthur's knights from being one. 

[ThreeF]

Yeah. The only knight in King Arthur's court that is undoubtedly a KISA is Galahad. There are others like Percival and Gawain who can have a strong argument made for them being a KISA(they were seen as worthy enough to accompany Galahad on the quest for the Holy Grail). Other than that the only KISA in Arthurian legend is actually one of the main villains Mordred, once you look at it from his side. But Lancelot is not a KISA, and in fact is one of the furthest of Arthur's knights from being one. 

Yep, btw we are having a deja vu here

 

on the side note, by the definition of courtly love, almost no DA LI are KISA since it's typically the PC who does the courting.

[Zobert]

Cullen is also older in Inquisition than Alistair was in Origins, and had been through so much more, so his lack of naivete is believable. And the only indication of his sex life before Inq was him running away from a female mage in Origins. Also, he does tell the Inquisitor that he hadn't ever found anyone special between what happened in Ferelden and Kirkwall, and his own mental recovery, he just never had the opportunity. And this was to my male Qunari mage. 

 

I don't mean only as an older adult. 

 

He looks like a KISA but is more of a Batman than a Superman.  Superman was always lawful good even though it would slow things down.  In DA2 Cullen took the suspicious mage out to beat the crap out of him and get answers.  In DAO Cullen wanted to kill everyone even if there were good people in the tower.

 

That's practical warrior stuff.  It's Batman territory.  Superman would not have done that.

[Zobert]

Lancelot is not KISA.

 

Strictly speaking KISA is not so much about virginity as about chirvarly romance (this is where the whole King Arthur and Lancelot mess started), where this particular trope first appeared, and courtly love. Courtly love is an idolized form of love:

He is not a KISA because he fell to lust, but before that he was a) highly religious warrior, his superior skills were tied to his chastity and purity, etc

 

He fucked up so, no, he wasn't a KISA.

 

And KISA's (historically) were about those things because the world used to be Catholic.  Even tho these tales probably predate Catholicism, they were told and codified in the Catholic world where chastity and virginity before marriage were virtues.

 

I'm not saying that it has to remain that way in Thedas, but it was part of our KISA lore.

 

I do think it has a little bearing because we know Alastair was a virgin and our Inquisitor even asked Cullen about monk like vows and he got really embarrassed, I'm not sure if I ever got the answer.

 

I had the feeling they were sort of like the Men of the Knights Watch in that they weren't supposed to but many did.

 

((shrugs))

 

And yes, Galahad the Chaste, Galahad the Pure...was a standing KISA who remained such.

[eyezonlyii]

I don't mean only as an older adult. 

 

He looks like a KISA but is more of a Batman than a Superman.  Superman was always lawful good even though it would slow things down.  In DA2 Cullen took the suspicious mage out to beat the crap out of him and get answers.  In DAO Cullen wanted to kill everyone even if there were good people in the tower.

 

That's practical warrior stuff.  It's Batman territory.  Superman would not have done that.

And Alistair wants to execute Loghain instead of making him a Warden (and in some instances actually does, if you haven't gotten his approval high enough I think). Thereby disqualifying him if we're going that route. As I said before the only "pure" KISA's in the game are then Justice and Valor, because they're not human and don't have the same weaknesses and failings we do.

[daveliam]

I don't think that a gay KISA has to be Galahad pure. I don't mind a bit of subversion of the archetype, provided that they don't stray too far from it in too many ways. It's subjective .

[Zobert]

And Alistair wants to execute Loghain instead of making him a Warden (and in some instances actually does, if you haven't gotten his approval high enough I think). Thereby disqualifying him if we're going that route. As I said before the only "pure" KISA's in the game are then Justice and Valor, because they're not human and don't have the same weaknesses and failings we do.

 

Yes, but that's the law.  Loghain betrayed and killed the king, created a civil war, and delaying how the Blight was reacted to.  Execution for treason would still be lawful good.  Loghain commited treason and broke the law.

[9TailsFox]

And Alistair wants to execute Loghain instead of making him a Warden (and in some instances actually does, if you haven't gotten his approval high enough I think). Thereby disqualifying him if we're going that route. As I said before the only "pure" KISA's in the game are then Justice and Valor, because they're not human and don't have the same weaknesses and failings we do.

So according to you such think doesn't exist in DA at all. Everyone have flaws. And what Alistair do Loghain deserve, he responsible for Alistair "father figure' death. It's hard to forgive someone who kill your "father".

[Zobert]

I don't think that a gay KISA has to be Galahad pure. I don't mind a bit of subversion of the archetype, provided that they don't stray too far from it in too many ways. It's subjective .

 

It would make it more interesting, however, especially if it were a male considering how often gay males are portrayed as sexually philistine.  The media does it to black women as well.  There's this meme that they are ravenously sexual.

 

It would totally break a stereotype if the gay male was monk with a sweet romance like that of Sebastian (if that's what you're into).

[stop_him]

I don't mean only as an older adult. 

 

He looks like a KISA but is more of a Batman than a Superman.  Superman was always lawful good even though it would slow things down.  In DA2 Cullen took the suspicious mage out to beat the crap out of him and get answers.  In DAO Cullen wanted to kill everyone even if there were good people in the tower.

 

That's practical warrior stuff.  It's Batman territory.  Superman would not have done that.

Yeah, well just as a comic hero, Batman > Superman, any day of the week. Besides, Superman killed Zod in the last movie. People made a big deal about it because Superman never kills people (supposedly). But he seemed to get over it quickly enough despite his post-murder wails.