How many times are you going to bring this up? It's bordering on thread derailment at this point.
I'll bring it up whenever someone brings the suggestion up. Just like people can like the idea of the KISA being a Chevalier, people can not like it.
How is it thread derailment when the discussions are "Where could the KISA be from?". You saying it is derailing is more derailing than it.
I'll bring it up whenever someone brings the suggestion up. Just like people can like the idea of the KISA being a Chevalier, people can not like it.
How is it thread derailment when the discussions are "Where could the KISA be from?".
Because you say the same thing over and over and over again. Everyone knows your opinion on Chevaliers. It's just spam at this point.
Because you say the same thing over and over and over again. Everyone knows your opinion on Chevaliers. It's just spam at this point.
And the same people keep suggesting Chevalier over and over again. Are they spamming too?
And the same people keep suggesting Chevalier over and over again. Are they spamming too?
It's not the same person doing it. Whereas this is always you.
One reference? Try essentially every reference. The initiation isn't the only thing that makes them a terrible order. The right to steal, rape, murder whoever or whatever they want also comes to mind. Even if not every Chevalier does it, the fact it is acceptable behavior makes it a terrible order.
At least the Templar Order and Seekers of Truth, for the most part at least, frowned on Templars and Seekers going too far with mages and civilians, punishing the offenders.
The Chevaliers are granted a right that ALL nobility technically have. We witnessed it in the Elf origin in the first game. So yes, Chevalier are granted carte blanche, but only so much as the other nobles in the story.
I wouldn't mind a gay lady Chevalier. Lots of drama and good story to tell.
I wouldn't mind a gay lady Chevalier. Lots of drama and good story to tell.
Romance as an Elf 
Romance as an Elf
city elf rogue whose father/brother/mother was murdered by a Chevalier as part of the "initiation"
Romance as an Elf
city elf rogue whose father/brother/mother was murdered by a Chevalier as part of the "initiation"
Ohohohoh, the plot thickens. Ngl, i'd be really curious about this "rare" kind of romance.
I wouldn't mind a gay lady Chevalier. Lots of drama and good story to tell.
I'd love a gay guy! Though I prefer my PCs to be above their LI in station and I can't play elves *gag* *shudder*, so hopefully we'll get another human noble option, hated as it seems to be on the forum...
In fact, I've been thinking it would have made for good roleplay for me if we had one in Inquisition - the 'Herald of Andraste' angle would have made for some nice relationship drama with a devout and subordinate Chevalier companion. Oh well, maybe next time.
One reference? Try essentially every reference. The initiation isn't the only thing that makes them a terrible order. The right to steal, rape, murder whoever or whatever they want also comes to mind. Even if not every Chevalier does it, the fact it is acceptable behavior makes it a terrible order.
At least the Templar Order and Seekers of Truth, for the most part at least, frowned on Templars and Seekers going too far with mages and civilians, punishing the offenders.
It would be very Bioware to give us an exception to that generalization as a companion. They've done it time and again. Wrex was an unusual Krogan, Legion was a very unusual Geth, and Merrill was an extremely unusual Blood Mage. It's to be expected at this point that if we have a Chevalier, they would defy the traits commonly associated with the order.
It would be very Bioware to give us an exception to that generalization as a companion. They've done it time and again. Wrex was an unusual Krogan, Legion was a very unusual Geth, and Merrill was an extremely unusual Blood Mage. It's to be expected at this point that if we have a Chevalier, they would defy the traits commonly associated with the order.
Add Dorian, the unusual Tevinter mage to that list as well!
Yeah, I don't see any issue with a Chevalier KISA as long as they are working towards the greater good in a Lawful Good approach. I don't even mind if their story starts with them being more Lawful Neutral (like Samara) and eventually working towards a good alignment as they begin to question their order and work to reform from within. Could make an interesting story, in my opinion.
I was very pleasantly surprised when Agron and Nasir not only both survived (I thought for sure that Agron was going to die with the rest of the major characters), but that they were the only rebel couple to make it out unscathed (well, alive really, not necessarily unscathed). Agron was super swoon-worthy. I was totally hooked on this show (for obvious reasons) and really found myself getting into the characters despite fairly awful writing and acting and cheese-tastic fight scenes. I don't really see either of them as KISAs (any of the rebels, really), but it's a great example of two male warriors in a romantic, loving relationship with each other.
Spoilers for pic spamming of this adorable gay warrior couple. These boys were not shy with their affection for each other.
Spoiler
I mean only that the two have some KISA qualities: honesty, sincerity, loyalty, etc. But they are obviously more chaotic good types. D&D Barbarian class, most likely, but still I admired the KISA-like qualities these two had. 
Well of course some boys are different, I said being masculine was the norm not what all boys are.
Don't think there are no girly boys that end up straight either, but you'll see far less feminine straight adults because of the gay stereotype. Being gay still has really negative connotations and they'll do anything not to be seen as one of "them".
Being straight is the norm, but that's not what all people are. Given the latest studies in neurology, a hard science, there are similarities between the gay male brain, MTF brains, and that of women. There is absolutely NOTHING wrong with that, or with people who have feminine mannerisms, or with people who have masculine ones.
The world would be boring if we were all the same.
People should be allowed to be themselves without other people telling them why they're that way. Who cares why? Are they happy?
Back to KISAs I see my gay Chevalier Tourney player got shot down, so I got nothing.
Being straight is the norm, but that's not what all people are. Given the latest studies in neurology, a hard science, there are similarities between the gay male brain, MTF brains, and that of women. There is absolutely NOTHING wrong with that, or with people who have feminine mannerisms, or with people who have masculine ones.
The world would be boring if we were all the same.
People should be allowed to be themselves without other people telling them why they're that way. Who cares why? Are they happy?
Back to KISAs I see my gay Chevalier Tourney player got shot down, so I got nothing.
What do you think those similarities most likely are ? Maybe who you want to bone I wonder ?
I don't understand what you're going on about, do you actually believe that gay men and women are all trans ? Do you even realize there is nothing concrete yet about those studies and the researchers themselves don't want people to draw conclusions too early ?
"Corvino was also concerned by the study’s implication of gender inversion. “Early theories of sexual orientation suggested that gay men were kind of like women in men’s bodies or that lesbians were men in women’s bodies. And it seems to me that that also imports a lot of assumptions and prejudices into the analysis of the data.”"
By the way, I thought saying stuff like this went against SJW mentality ? Wouldn't that mean that "non-binary" people and all that crap are a big joke ? That gay trans people live in complete delusion ?
Are you actually looking for facts or is hypocrisy good enough ?
I don't remember voting down a gay Chevalier Tourney runner up. I think it would be pretty cool. Especially if he had a bromantic, but serious vibe to him.Being straight is the norm, but that's not what all people are. Given the latest studies in neurology, a hard science, there are similarities between the gay male brain, MTF brains, and that of women. There is absolutely NOTHING wrong with that, or with people who have feminine mannerisms, or with people who have masculine ones.
The world would be boring if we were all the same.
People should be allowed to be themselves without other people telling them why they're that way. Who cares why? Are they happy?
Back to KISAs I see my gay Chevalier Tourney player got shot down, so I got nothing.
It would be very Bioware to give us an exception to that generalization as a companion. They've done it time and again. Wrex was an unusual Krogan, Legion was a very unusual Geth, and Merrill was an extremely unusual Blood Mage. It's to be expected at this point that if we have a Chevalier, they would defy the traits commonly associated with the order.
I never said they wouldn't. I wouldn't be surprised if they have them be the exception. I was referring to the Order itself in my post.
Though Legion wasn't an unusual Geth. He represented about 95% of them. The Heretics were the unusual Geth.
I never said they wouldn't. I wouldn't be surprised if they have them be the exception. I was referring to the Order itself in my post.
Though Legion wasn't an unusual Geth. He represented about 95% of them. The Heretics were the unusual Geth.
But we didn't know that until Legion was introduced. The same could be true of Chevaliers.
But we didn't know that until Legion was introduced. The same could be true of Chevaliers.
Yep yep. As was pointed out earlier, if there's anything BioWare's writers are good at, is taking the conception/existing lore of a group or race and giving us the exception to that rule.
I never turned down the Chevalier idea myself, since I think it could be a good one. A lot of Thedas' organizations seem to be going through an internal split/change of the guard. Considering how hard Orlais was hit with civil war, the Mage/Templar conflict and the events of Inquisition, who's to say that the Chevaliers aren't going through something similar? I could see someone filling a role akin to what Cass could do for the Seekers: Going back to the beginning, back to the roots and purging the order of corruption and lies. Everything I'd read about the Chevaliers suggested that there was a noble Code that got lost in all of the politicking and posturing that is the beating heart of Orlais. Somewhere, a noble order lost their way and became about playing political games rather than being the top defenders of the kingdom.
Post-Inquisition, I could see someone like Michel coming along and wanting to restore his Order (he was honorable to a fault, and did not agree with the alienage purge. He was also horrified by the slaughter of the Dalish that our favorite "choice spirit" helped cause.) The only downside to this idea is that, I suspect, we won't be going back to southern Thedas for the next game. Truthfully, once all the DLCs are done, we've got pretty much all of known southern Thedas explored between Origins and this game. Minus the Deep Roads of course, since we have only really explored a fraction of that area even in southern Thedas. However, that doesn't rule out a Chevalier from Orlais joining us for some reason. Maybe he wants to reclaim the honor of the Chevailers? Maybe he wants to leave due to the level of chaos? There is still possibilities.
I don't remember voting down a gay Chevalier Tourney runner up. I think it would be pretty cool. Especially if he had a bromantic, but serious vibe to him.
Yessssssss. I love the bromantic ones.
Guest_Puddi III_*
What do you think those similarities most likely are ? Maybe who you want to bone I wonder ?
I don't understand what you're going on about, do you actually believe that gay men and women are all trans ? Do you even realize there is nothing concrete yet about those studies and the researchers themselves don't want people to draw conclusions too early ?
"Corvino was also concerned by the study’s implication of gender inversion. “Early theories of sexual orientation suggested that gay men were kind of like women in men’s bodies or that lesbians were men in women’s bodies. And it seems to me that that also imports a lot of assumptions and prejudices into the analysis of the data.”"
By the way, I thought saying stuff like this went against SJW mentality ? Wouldn't that mean that "non-binary" people and all that crap are a big joke ? That gay trans people live in complete delusion ?
Are you actually looking for facts or is hypocrisy good enough ?
Before I answer any of the above, wait--I'm not going to answer any of the above. I said exactly what I mean to say and that is that neurological studies have shown similiarities (not that they are identical fully). That means only that there are naturally occurring similarities in the brain chemistry and use of tissue. We're not speaking of soft science like psychology but a hard science with repetitive evidence.
Now, if this fucks with your perception of masculinity that is not my problem. My point is that some people are born differently with you and you can't shrug it off that they were socialized that way because then you are telling people how they feel inside, how they act is wrong....and that is wrong.
I'm not that interested in Corvinos take on this as a philosophy major but rather the opinion of neurologists.
http://www.pnas.org/...ent/105/27/9403
http://cercor.oxford...0/2322.abstract
No offense, but the outrage that it could be possible also shows a bit of misogyny because it's saying for men to share characteristics with women is somehow offensive enough that people have to stamp their feet and scream, no no no.
No science is concrete but there is enough evidence to have it published in very GLBT friendly nations like Sweden who are advanced in gender neurology and in their national social conscience to the point where they are even adding a new gender word so that people are not alienated.
Anyway, a hyper masculine, grunting farting, ball scratching gay KISA would be fine with me. He doesn't have to pick flowers in nature with the childrens.
I don't remember voting down a gay Chevalier Tourney runner up. I think it would be pretty cool. Especially if he had a bromantic, but serious vibe to him.
Well that's what I was thinking--that or our character is the one man to beat him in the tourney...that kind of thing, where we beat him so now he must follow us.
I dunno...just thinking out loud about the type of stuff KISAs have historically done and jousting, tourneys, fighting is what they do.
Sorry, I'm a little sensitive because the kid I babysat found me online in high school and I had to talk him down from a suicidal state because he TRIED to be the manly man his father wanted and it wasn't working. It wasn't just the gay thing, his father didn't want a feminine son. He wanted a football playing BOY.
The fact that he had to find me, someone who hadn't seen him since he was 6, that he remembered me showed how utterly hopeless he felt.
Maybe the gay men in this thread are all manly beer drinking, burping, farting, ball throwing He-Men, but not all gay men are and to treat them like they are some misled, uneducated and wrong person just seems harmful and hurtful.
Maybe the gay men in this thread are all manly beer drinking, burping, farting, ball throwing He-Men, but not all gay men are and to treat them like they are some misled, uneducated and wrong person just seems harmful and hurtful.
Just to keep on topic with the whole Knight in Shining Armour thing, I want to tie what you said about not all men not living up to this conventional ideal of socially constructed masculinity.
I would personally like to see a gay male companion who doesn't actually ooze machismo nor isn't the cultured man of class like Dorian was. I don't see anything wrong with having men in stories who are rather soft-spoken, slight of stature, unable to grow beards or bulk up on muscle (and aren't elves). I get the impression from other gay men in real life that they need to have something to prove their masculinity and be able to keep in line with their heterosexual counterparts. All this because of this imposed mentality of "liking other men sexually = feminine" then viewing it as a bad thing, which in turn is some kind of subconscious misogyny there. I get that- "oh well, I'm sexually attracted to men, I've just used up all my 'I'm just like a woman' points, gotta cancel them out by butching it up, am I right?". When that shouldn't be the case.
So yeah, maybe for me, I'd like to see a rather unseasoned knight in training who "has his heart in the right place", but there are other traits about him that aren't so... gallant, like your classic knight in shining armour. Like, well, he never really learnt how to swing a sword, but only managed because he had to. He was never the type to defend himself because everyone else did that for him, but take them away, he's like "oh ****, whut?". He's rather under-developed because genetics cursed him to be rather slight. Oh well.
But what I'm getting at is that I'd like to see this kind of character who so happens to be gay, but written in a way humanises those characteristics rather than making them into a joke. I mean, you see it all the time in the quintessential "hero's journey" storylines where you have a youth who's near completely hopeless go through the wringer and come out stronger for it- why couldn't it be the same for this kind of character, who only just so happens to be homosexual.
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