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[Grieving Natashina]

 

I like your post, but your new avatar is a little...odd.  

[Lady Artifice]

To me it comes down to the fact that happening to be respectful of my views while disagreeing with them is not particularly tied with being a friend. To me, that's a matter of respect. And this is complicated with two things. The first is that I'm Cassandra's superior in the Inquisition. The second is her religious conviction that my actions and my plans are a reflection of divine providence.

To me that speech about admiration just isn't at all reflective of what I see friendship as IRL. While I think that in her romance arc she shows a lot of heartfelt caring (and attraction), her friendship arc just doesn't connotate any of the things I see as essential to being friends, the most important of which is cammaradie.

While Dorian, the IB, and even Sera have that element of it, I don't think Cassandra does. In fact I'd say that lack of camaraderie is why Varric doesn't feel like much of a friend in DAI.

 

You have a point. I agree with you about Varric at the very least. He was my main Hawke's favorite companion, the one I took everywhere. Before Inquisition came out I had art commissioned of my Inquisitor and he together, and then once I played the game, there was the glaring problem that without the dynamic he and Hawke potentially shared, he wasn't even one of my top three companions because his relationship with the Inquisitor was too impersonal for me. 

 

I partially blame my "rapport" with the Inquisitor though. I feel very little attachment to them as a protagonist. I'm one of those that preferred the three flavors of Hawke. 

[Hellion Rex]

I like the idea of rivalry in DA2, but I did not really like how it was implemented there. If they are going to do rivalry in the next game, I hope it would be more nuanced and reasonable. I would like to see a KISA character to have integrity when it comes to their morality. I do not wish to see a rivalry where if I treat the KISA shitty enough, they will miraculously change who they are or what they do strongly believe.

 

Actually I want to see more than one scale when it comes to relationship with characters. Maybe in addition to rivalry/friendship, another scale regarding, say, respect might be added.

Yes. I don't want to have a character compromising their own beliefs by my simple presence at all. I want them to stay true to the core of their identity. However, if it's within the character's purview to have a realistic change in ideology, then that is ok with me.

[Hellion Rex]

You have a point. I agree with you about Varric at the very least. He was my main Hawke's favorite companion, the one I took everywhere. Before Inquisition came out I had art commissioned of my Inquisitor and he together, and then once I played the game, there was the glaring problem that without the dynamic he and Hawke potentially shared, he wasn't even one of my top three companions because his relationship with the Inquisitor was too impersonal for me. 

 

I partially blame my "rapport" with the Inquisitor though. I feel very little attachment to them as a protagonist. I'm one of those that preferred the three flavors of Hawke. 

Interesting. I agree with you about Varric, hands down. He felt way too much like Hawke's bro for me to fully enjoy him. Granted, I had some good fun with him, but there wasn't as nearly as much of a bond with him as I had been expecting. And in all honesty, my best friends were Cass and Iron Bull.

 

Now, that said, I thought that, as a character, my Inquisitor is my favorite of the three protagonists hands down. Never have I had so much fun roleplaying/self-inserting the character of Gale Trevelyan. Hawke was a step above the Warden, but he didn't really do it for me.

[AresKeith]

Interesting. I agree with you about Varric, hands down. He felt way too much like Hawke's bro for me to fully enjoy him. Granted, I had some good fun with him, but there wasn't as nearly as much of a bond with him as I had been expecting. And in all honesty, my best friends were Cass and Iron Bull.

 

Now, that said, I thought that, as a character, my Inquisitor is my favorite of the three protagonists hands down. Never have I had so much fun roleplaying/self-inserting the character of Gale Trevelyan. Hawke was a step above the Warden, but he didn't really do it for me.

 

Hawke felt too much like a character than a protagonist to me

[Hellion Rex]

Hawke felt too much like a character than a protagonist to me

Quite. I agree with that statement. He felt much more like a character already developed and I could only really add a little personal flair here or there.

[Lady Artifice]

Interesting. I agree with you about Varric, hands down. He felt way too much like Hawke's bro for me to fully enjoy him. Granted, I had some good fun with him, but there wasn't as nearly as much of a bond with him as I had been expecting. And in all honesty, my best friends were Cass and Iron Bull.

 

Now, that said, I thought that, as a character, my Inquisitor is my favorite of the three protagonists hands down. Never have I had so much fun roleplaying/self-inserting the character of Gale Trevelyan. Hawke was a step above the Warden, but he didn't really do it for me.

 

Mine were Dorian and Cass, in that order. Dorian was her best friend, absolutely without exception. That scene with Mother Gisele and he...So many feels. Embarrassing, but I got a little misty when he said that her good opinion was the one he cared about. 

 

I would go as far as to say that Dorian is the most important character in this game to me.

 

I was able to build up Angelique that way in my head. I had fun laying out her background and personality quirks, her passions. But then, when it came to actually playing her, I'd built it up in my head too much...and so she seemed too bland to me. It's as much my fault as anything. I've never followed a game through release before, so that was part of my mistake. I put too much pressure on it. 

 

Have you ever taken screen shots of Gale? I've heard a lot about him, but I don't think I've ever seen him. 

[Hellion Rex]

Mine were Dorian and Cass, in that order. Dorian was her best friend, absolutely without exception. That scene with Mother Gisele and he...So many feels. Embarrassing, but I got a little misty when he said that her good opinion was the one he cared about. 

 

I would go as far as to say that Dorian is the most important character in this game to me.

 

I was able to build up Angelique that way in my head. I had fun laying out her background and personality quirks, her passions. But then, when it came to actually playing her, I'd built it up in my head too much...and so she seemed too bland to me. It's as much my fault as anything. I've never followed a game through release before, so that was part of my mistake. I put too much pressure on it. 

 

Have you ever taken screen shots of Gale? I've heard a lot about him, but I don't think I've ever seen him. 

Dorian was good. Extremely good. He was definitely in my top three with Bull second and Cass first. And I will admit that the game didn't give me as room to express my character as much as I would have liked either.

 

And here's my Gale, Knight Enchanter extraordinaire:

 

Spoiler

[Grieving Natashina]

I love that third picture of him.  

[Hellion Rex]

I love that third picture of him.  

I believe that was the same scene where Bull said I love you. I damn near blew out my roommate's eardrums with my screaming.

[Lady Artifice]

Holy gorgeous jawline, Batman. 

[Lady Artifice]

I love that third picture of him.  

 

It's quite a smirk. 

[Grieving Natashina]

It's quite a smirk. 

Indeed it is.  

[Hellion Rex]

A better profile shot in that same scene:

 

Spoiler

[Hellion Rex]

It's quite a smirk. 

He certainly was giving Bull a run for his money!

[Lady Artifice]

And in a moment of pure off topic enthusiasm I will announce that I just wrestled the refined prowler armor schematic away from a Pride demon in the frostback basin and I am now going to make the most indestructible rogue armor ever seen in Thedas!

 

And then tint it with Royale Sea Silk. 

 

::ahem:: And then I will proceed not to interrupt this thread with any more of my silly OT for at least several pages. 

[Hellion Rex]

 

::ahem:: And then I will proceed not to interrupt this thread with any more of my silly OT for at least several pages. 

Bah. I find it endearing, my lady.

[Lady Artifice]

Actually I want to see more than one scale when it comes to relationship with characters. Maybe in addition to rivalry/friendship, another scale regarding, say, respect might be added.

 

I really like this idea, btw. I like the idea of character being explicitly able to bond with each other despite having different values. 

 

I imagine it would come with some implementation issues, but the idea of having two friendship value meters, one that measures warmth and comeradery and one that measures respect, either of which could contribute the forward progression of the relationship, has a lot of appeal.

 

Maybe if both get too low, that's when the character leaves.  

[TheRatPack55]

I like the idea of rivalry in DA2, but I did not really like how it was implemented there. If they are going to do rivalry in the next game, I hope it would be more nuanced and reasonable. I would like to see a KISA character to have integrity when it comes to their morality. I do not wish to see a rivalry where if I treat the KISA shitty enough, they will miraculously change who they are or what they do strongly believe.

 

Actually I want to see more than one scale when it comes to relationship with characters. Maybe in addition to rivalry/friendship, another scale regarding, say, respect might be added.

 

This is why I personally believe the Fallout NV reputation meter is a brilliant invention. Allow me to quote the Fallout wiki on this:

 

Spoiler

Fame and Infamy (denoted 1 and 0 in the console) are earned by doing helpful or harmful deeds, respectively, to the faction. The combined effects of the two scales result in an overall reputation that is either positive, neutral, or negative. In the table below, these are colored green, black, and red respectively.

With a few exceptions, Fame and Infamy will only increase, meaning any positive or negative reputation with a given faction cannot be removed, only offset by a larger Fame or Infamy value. In other words, while it's possible to move from 'Hated' to 'Sneering Punk', then 'Unpredictable', then 'Dark Hero' by doing more and more good deeds while avoiding bad ones, there is no permanent way to move from 'Hated' back to 'Neutral' or from 'Hated' to 'Idolized.' And, if you are 'Idolized' you move down the chart to 'Wild Child'. Also, once a reputation of 'Wild Child' is earned, there's no ability to change it at all.

Only three exceptions exist. The NCR and Caesar's Legion, two of the game's primary factions, will grant a one-time offer of amnesty for past misdeeds, resetting Infamy to zero while leaving Fame at its current level. Once this offer is given, any Infamy gained after that point is permanent. James Garret can be paid to start rumors in Freeside that affect your reputation with the town. There is a limit to how much this can be done.

 

Now imagine that skillfully implemented into the story-driven Bioware DA experience... For me at least, that's what I'm looking for in rpgs. Alas, I have to accept I'll get the choices from Bethesda, characters (and inclusivity!) from Bioware and combat from From software... but I still dream of a game that would merge them all.

 

_{edit to add a legible table in the spoiler}

[Hellion Rex]

^Damn, I really ought to try out Fallout sometime...

[TheRatPack55]

^Damn, I really ought to try out Fallout sometime...

 

You should... for all my fixation on characters and romances in Bioware games, New Vegas is still the game I would name if I were to pick the best rpg I've played in the last decade. And that's despite having to hard-reset my poor console every half hour while playing. _{Goddamn you Bethesda...}

[In Exile]

This is why I personally believe the Fallout NV reputation meter is a brilliant invention. Allow me to quote the Fallout wiki on this:

 

Spoiler

Fame and Infamy (denoted 1 and 0 in the console) are earned by doing helpful or harmful deeds, respectively, to the faction. The combined effects of the two scales result in an overall reputation that is either positive, neutral, or negative. In the table below, these are colored green, black, and red respectively.

With a few exceptions, Fame and Infamy will only increase, meaning any positive or negative reputation with a given faction cannot be removed, only offset by a larger Fame or Infamy value. In other words, while it's possible to move from 'Hated' to 'Sneering Punk', then 'Unpredictable', then 'Dark Hero' by doing more and more good deeds while avoiding bad ones, there is no permanent way to move from 'Hated' back to 'Neutral' or from 'Hated' to 'Idolized.' And, if you are 'Idolized' you move down the chart to 'Wild Child'. Also, once a reputation of 'Wild Child' is earned, there's no ability to change it at all.

Only three exceptions exist. The NCR and Caesar's Legion, two of the game's primary factions, will grant a one-time offer of amnesty for past misdeeds, resetting Infamy to zero while leaving Fame at its current level. Once this offer is given, any Infamy gained after that point is permanent. James Garret can be paid to start rumors in Freeside that affect your reputation with the town. There is a limit to how much this can be done.

 

Now imagine that skillfully implemented into the story-driven Bioware DA experience... For me at least, that's what I'm looking for in rpgs. Alas, I have to accept I'll get the choices from Bethesda, characters (and inclusivity!) from Bioware and combat from From software... but I still dream of a game that would merge them all.

 

_{edit to add a legible table in the spoiler}

 

Bioware seems to be very anti-reputation meters, because they prefer to track choices entirely via your dialogue preferences. Which is a shame, because an open world game would benefit from it a great deal. And party-based reactivity to it would work out very well. 

You don't need a formal rival/friendship mechanic in this context. I can just be (if a high ranking with X hated faction, then confrontation, otherwise, friendliness if approval Y). 

[(Disgusted noise.)]

You should... for all my fixation on characters and romances in Bioware games, New Vegas is still the game I would name if I were to pick the best rpg I've played in the last decade. And that's despite having to hard-reset my poor console every half hour while playing. _{Goddamn you Bethesda...}

Also there's Arcade Gannon. 

[daveliam]

Also there's Arcade Gannon. 

 

Agreed 100%  Arcade is awesome.  All kinds of awesome.