Didnt we just add a C and an A last week? im sorry i dont use twitter so im not up to speed i dont get the news letter.
Anyhooo as long as who they shag is not there defineing trait i dont care.
Good thing, then, that we've never had a DA companion who was defined by who they shag.
I don't expect that in DA:I, and I don't expect that of a hypothetical future gay KISA.
That's true, I do remember this coming up before. Does anything she do in-game disqualify her though? I'm of the opinion that art, once released into the world, stands on it's own and authorial intent is no long important.
Not that I can think of. She fit all the parameters. Of course, if I go around saying she is demi I will be yelled at for bisexual erasure or stuff like that.
Neither do i. honestly i ultimately just want a good game.
Not that I can think of. She fit all the parameters. Of course, if I go around saying she is demi I will be yelled at for bisexual erasure or stuff like that.
I don't think that's the case. Or rather, it shouldn't be, because bisexual erasure isn't about an even less considered sexual orientation claiming a character, but about claiming that the orientation doesn't exist.
Not that I can think of. She fit all the parameters. Of course, if I go around saying she is demi I will be yelled at for bisexual erasure or stuff like that.
Not really, Merrill would be classified as a demi-bisexual because she becomes close to Hawke regardless of gender
Not that I can think of. She fit all the parameters. Of course, if I go around saying she is demi I will be yelled at for bisexual erasure or stuff like that.
Fair enough. I'll go around saying she's demisexual then. I just wanted to make sure that was actually true based on in-game content before I started doing it.
Not that I can think of. She fit all the parameters. Of course, if I go around saying she is demi I will be yelled at for bisexual erasure or stuff like that.
I still don't think that they need to be mutually exclusive, though. Why can't she bisexual and still show the attraction patterns of a demisexual? Or, another way to think of it, why can't she be demisexual and show the attractions of bisexuality?
In fact, after digging around a bit, the AVENwiki from asexuality.org says that 'demi' can ammend other sexualities, such as "demi-heterosexual". Here's the link:
http://www.asexualit...itle=Demisexual
So couldn't Merrill be demi-bisexual?
It is odd the Dragon Age makes all of it's queer characters into roguish, morally grey outcasts, yet you go to Mass Effect and they do the opposite. Kaidan, Liara, Samantha, Steve, and Kelly are all the goody two shoes type.
So, yeah, I definitely agree that I would like to see more personality/alignment variation in future queer characters. We can be just as diverse as straight people.
That felt like a dig, Kallen. That's why Suzaku had to do it to em.
I don't think that's the case. Or rather, it shouldn't be, because bisexual erasure isn't about an even less considered sexual orientation claiming a character, but about claiming that the orientation doesn't exist.
Good point.
Fair enough. I'll go around saying she's demisexual then. I just wanted to make sure that was actually true based on in-game content before I started doing it.
Glad I could help.
Not really, Merrill would be classified as a demi-bisexual because she becomes close to Hawke regardless of gender
I still don't think that they need to be mutually exclusive, though. Why can't she bisexual and still show the attraction patterns of a demisexual? Or, another way to think of it, why can't she be demisexual and show the attractions of bisexuality?
In fact, after digging around a bit, the AVENwiki from asexuality.org says that 'demi' can ammend other sexualities, such as "demi-heterosexual". Here's the link:
http://www.asexualit...itle=Demisexual
So couldn't Merrill be demi-bisexual?
I suppose. People are able to be asexual and yet be drawn to certain or both genders just like sexuals, so it stands to reason that the orientation in the middle can as well.
I really need to make a thread about this, but I don't know how to word it. 
That felt like a dig, Kallen. That's why Suzaku had to do it to em.
What did?
That felt like a dig, Kallen. That's why Suzaku had to do it to em.
Huh?
I mean, my fiance is a demi-bisexual. She can be quite sexual but usually only with people she has a close emotional bond with first. I think to avoid Bierasure, its best to say demi-bisexual, because Bi erasure is definitely a problem in the LGBT community.
What did?
I thought you were being sarcastic with the Bi erasure part. My bad!
if you want to get into even more specifics, Merrill can be a demisexual biromantic.
Getting on this a bit late since I don't really browse the BSN that often and have never actually posted here before, but I felt compelled to chime in since this particular issue is something that has been on my mind for a while now, especially after Blackwall was revealed as a straight LI (I wanted Blackwall so bad you have no idea).
I don't really have anything substantial to add that hasn't been covered already atm, but I just wanted to say that I strongly agree and identify with a lot of what has been said thus far by everybody else, especially regarding the sentiments about always being personally drawn to these types of characters despite the fact that they are never depicted as being gay (or really anything other than strictly heterosexual).
In a weird way just reading through this thread and seeing that there are other people who share my pov has actually made me feel a lot better about the whole thing.
I thought you were being sarcastic with the Bi erasure part. My bad!
I wish I was.
I mean, my fiance is a demi-bisexual. She can be quite sexual but usually only with people she has a close emotional bond with first. I think to avoid Bierasure, its best to say demi-bisexual, because Bi erasure is definitely a problem in the LGBT community.
Okay.
if you want to get into even more specifics, Merrill can be a demisexual biromantic.
Or bisexual demiromantic, since we know her sexuality is bisexual.
I'm all for a gay/bi dude that happens to be a knight in shining armor type. I'll have to see how Dorian and Iron Bull pan out as characters, with their personalities and their backstories, but I would enjoy a change in pace of character type for bi/gay men. The raucous/depraved bisexual angle, or having sex slavery/rape victimization as a background, or being the morally bankrupt assassin/murderer, are themes and characterization I find overused in media in general for bi/gay men. I'm not singling out video games or the DA series. I'd just enjoy seeing other things as well.
I have a curious thought that came to me as a combination of previous things that appeared on the forum:
Do you think that the lack so far of a non-straight KISA (love the acronym!) is largely due to other tropes in writing characters? The three most prominent examples I can think of is the player-character as the only one with agency, the player character as the strongest and most emotionally balanced character in the party, and the fact that flirting from NPCs is more accepted in a straight context.
The first example is easily seen from the fact that in pretty much all games (especially Bioware games) the player-character is the only one who initiates and confirms relationships by flirting first or blatantly flirting back. Obviously this is preferred by most players, but part of the KISA archetype involves assertiveness and romantic gallantry, which kind of imply a bit of pro-activeness in courting (we could have passive KISAs based more on their moral alignment, but I'm focusing on the more romantic knight version here). Perhaps this evens out once a relationship is started, and of course this is the same regardless of straight or queer relationships, but maybe this is why the KISA archetype is rare even in a straight context and practically non-existent in a queer one.
The second is again, kind of standard for any player-controlled character. If KISA are also protective and stalwart friends/lovers, that is a role that most players would prefer to play themselves. Like someone else mentioned in a different thread, we don't usually see the PC as shy or timid, but instead as confident and assertive in all aspects. Maybe writers are worried that most PCs want to be the ones "sweeping their love interests off their feet" instead of being the ones who are swept? Even Cassandra is said to be a secret romantic, and so maybe she'll subvert the KISA relationship anyway in this regard. A male KISA love interest towards a female PC usually wavers between acceptance of being less awesome than the female PC and explicit shows of protectiveness (ex. Alistair in DAO). It's hard to say if the female KISA love interest falls under the same behaviours, but I would assume it would be yes as well. In a gay/lesbian/queer relationship, maybe writers are concerned about who to attribute certain behaviours to without potentially offending their audience--would a male PC be offended if a male KISA talks about wanting to protect him? Would a female PC be offended at being coddled and shielded by a female KISA? The potential controversy might deter writers from attempting these kinds of characters.
And lastly, linking back to the first example, maybe the still-present homophobia/aversion to homosexual content is also making writers wary of creating queer KISA characters who flirt or approach the PC. Most obvious example would be the gay Anders debacle in DA2. When I played a lesbian Hawke I just sighed and rolled my eyes at Anders's flirting, accepting that and never really thinking more about it until I heard about the heated reactions from some fans who played male Hawkes.
Apologies for the meandering argument, it was hard to keep it focused on queer KISA relationships, since the tropes apply to straight relationships too, and even harder to find female examples .
Some really interesting points Jycarin, I hadn't really though about the issue of agency in relation to the KISA before (and congrats Dave - I think that one may stick 
). I think not having an NPC 'take the lead' in terms of romance must be a factor in there somewhere.
The last point you make reminded me of something that I'd been thinking of in relation to different forms of sexuality being presented, the whole concept of of NPC's being 'player-sexual'. Though companions for DA2 have been confirmed as actually being bi by the writers, Isabella is the only one who is actually revealed to be bi when playing a Hawke of the opposite gender to her. Anders in particular bothers me with this - he tells a male Hawke that Karl was his lover, but this is just left out when he talks to a female Hawke. Now, is this Bi erasure (that i completely agree is a problem both generally and within the LGBT community)? Or it is simply that there would be no organic way of broaching the topic without it seeming like forced conversation? With characters like Zevran and Isabella - it makes perfect sense for them talk about their sexual history and who they find attractive. I'm not sure it would have done with say Merril or Fenris. Just to be clear, I'm not advocating one or the other - I'm actually not sure myself.
Staying on that line I'm not sure functionally how you would present someone as say demi-bisexual as opposed to just bisexual. Sure you could word of God it, but in game, other than having a character explicitly explain their sexuality, I'm not sure how you would ever know. And again, there are characters who you could easily have doing just that without it seeming odd - but others who I'm not sure it could work for.
Well this seems to have become a bit unfocused and rambley so I'll stop there. Silly thought provoking thread *mutter mutter*
EDIT: Forgot to say on the 'player sexual' thing, in the upcoming SWTOR expansion certain NPC's have actually been called referred to by the dev's as being 'player sexual'. It kind of bugged me that they weren't just described as having an actual sexuality that would allow for them to flirt with both genders. Yes, they aren't real people, but the description of 'player sexual' just completely breaks immersion for me and makes them seem far more 2D
Modifié par Semyaza82, 27 octobre 2014 - 06:46 .
As everyone here likely already knows I am definitely behind (hur hur) having a gay KISA 
I've been disappointed over and over and over again, and it's been painful and frustrating. I am also tired of my romantic options being playboys and rogues lol I want my character to be swept off his feet in a beautiful romantic story for the ages for once LOL!
Let's keep talking about this and being gently persuasive by the time DA4 rolls around 
JWvonGoethe, on 25 Oct 2014 - 02:39 AM, said:
All human warriors are straight - Cassandra, Cullen, Blackwall, Aveline and Alistair - and they also all occupy influential positions in respectable society. The other heterosexual companions either have respectable backgrounds - Sebastian, Wynne and Oghren (married to a Paragon, remember) - or they don't operate within traditional defined boundaries of society in Thedas - Morrigan and Solas.
Dear JwvonGoethe, while I agree with most what you said, please never use the words Oghren and respectable in the same sentence again, it might break my brain. Branka became a paragon, after she had married him, and as far as I understood it in DA:O, at least one of his parents (his mother) had an alcohol problem too. So to me (at least) Oghren was more the stereotype of a womanizing, good for nothing (but killing things, which is surprisingly useful during a blight) alcohol abuser. but as stated it is only my opinion and for the rest I agree, I just wouldn't have added Oghren to that list. 
A totally different question and to anyone who might be able to awnser it, since in Thedas there are really several romancable races arround, how is that called? I mean is it really covered by home/hetero/bi/a/demi/pansexuality or should, considering that some romances (and yes they are both hetero *sigh*) are racegated, it be called something different? Like xenosexual in Mass Effect? I don't wish to offend anyone, I just sometimes get the feeling, that the writers feel (or at least it sounded in some interviews like that to me), that they added even more diversity, by making all this different races (but dwarfs) avaiable and to have different start conditions for the romance (no matter if gender or race gated). I personally don't think so, and as far I am concerned, one of the few things I liked about DA2 (without the DLC) was that any sentinent PC could romance any potential LI, and I had really hoped they would continue this trend in DA:I.
Or to make it short, my femShepard never got over the fact, that Jack wasn't interested and Aveline, if you had been avaiable (and only hetero), I probably would have played half a dozen male Hawkes for you. So please Bioware, next time make the LIs to anyone avaible, and let the romance be open to different interpretations.
The first example is easily seen from the fact that in pretty much all games (especially Bioware games) the player-character is the only one who initiates and confirms relationships by flirting first or blatantly flirting back.
I don't think that is true. All the DA and ME games had NPCs flirting with the PC without any advances from the PC. Admittedly they shut up and don't do it again when you tell them to **** off, but they do take the initial lead. And that it as it should be - we don't want NPCs who relentlessly pursue even when they are not wanted.
I don't think that is true. All the DA and ME games had NPCs flirting with the PC without any advances from the PC. Admittedly they shut up and don't do it again when you tell them to **** off, but they do take the initial lead. And that it as it should be - we don't want NPCs who relentlessly pursue even when they are not wanted.
Totally agree that no one wants some kind of creepy sex pest as a companion Possible they could take a bit more agency once you have already set things in motion though i guess
Getting on this a bit late since I don't really browse the BSN that often and have never actually posted here before, but I felt compelled to chime in since this particular issue is something that has been on my mind for a while now, especially after Blackwall was revealed as a straight LI (I wanted Blackwall so bad you have no idea).
I don't really have anything substantial to add that hasn't been covered already atm, but I just wanted to say that I strongly agree and identify with a lot of what has been said thus far by everybody else, especially regarding the sentiments about always being personally drawn to these types of characters despite the fact that they are never depicted as being gay (or really anything other than strictly heterosexual).
In a weird way just reading through this thread and seeing that there are other people who share my pov has actually made me feel a lot better about the whole thing.
I agree, same boat here. Although I'm fine with Iron Bull, even if he isn't a white knight at least he's(maybe I should use more tact) masculine, so it seems Bioware's moving in the right direction. That's all I ask for, Fenris almost made it except for the emo anime twink part. I always just romanced female characters in previous bioware games because I found the male same sex romance options unappealing, but iron bull is someone I can at least work with
I am beyond pleased that KISA has stuck. I'm a trendsetter!
Retour en haut