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[Lady Artifice]

You don't even really have to read far into the thread, because in the OP...

 

 

So this is a thread asking for a strong, morally noble (not necessarily of noble status, but that would be good too) gay warrior. (Male and female would be great.)

 

[Grieving Natashina]

I've been requesting a lesbian or bisexual lady KISA myself.  I just have no problem with the gay men having such an option as a LI first.  

[Hanako Ikezawa]

Also, lesbians are gay, genius.

This does lead me to ask something that has kind of had me curious for a while now. Since lesbians are just gay women, why do they get their own letter in LGBT? Wouldn't it make more sense if both gay men and gay women were under G? 

[Grieving Natashina]

This does lead me to ask something that has kind of had me curious for a while now. Since lesbians are just gay women, why do they get their own letter in LGBT? Wouldn't it make more sense if both gay men and gay women were under G? 

The word "lesbian" goes back to the 6th century BC and it references the island of Lesbos, referring to the home of poet Sappho. She used to write poetry about the beauty as well as her love of women.  The word came into modern terms in 1866.  Lesbians have had their own word in one form or another for over 2000 years.  

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lesbian

[Lady Artifice]

Sapho was so cool that Plato was an admirer. 

 

He wrote something talking about how she's the tenth Muse, though I don't remember the wording. 

[Hanako Ikezawa]

The word "lesbian" goes back to the 6th century BC and it references the island of Lesbos, referring to the home of poet Sappho. She used to write poetry about the beauty as well as her love of women.  The word came into modern terms in 1866.  Lesbians have had their own word in one form or another for over 2000 years.  

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lesbian

I know that. I was just curious why it gets its own letter in the acronym when it and gay are the same thing, you know? 

[Grieving Natashina]

I know that. I was just curious why it gets its own letter in the acronym when it and gay are the same thing, you know? 

I would figure it's because the word is already in use, and well, why not?  

 

Getting this back on topic, I'll have some more ideas for the thread once I play the DLC.  For now, I'm kinda running on fumes and bouncing off of other's ideas.

[DirkJake]

Absolutely not!

 

I play mostly as mages in the DA setting. A devout Andrastian love interest is just about a nightmare for a mage to romance. Then again, it's only mundane humans that have to worry about getting fed lyrium or conscripted into an Exalted March. A mage would probably just get a simple brand of Tranquility in their sleep. Thedas is just not a safe place to live. A mage romancing a devout Andrastian has one more worry on their plate, and one that can met out immediate and tangible physical harm faster than a demon should they be romancing one. One word into the ear of the local Revered Mother and it's off to prison with you!  

 

This is why I personally differentiate between being devout to Andrastian and being devout to the Chantry. I mean there are some characters that are Andrastian and are pro-mage. My mage PC would be okay romancing them.

[(Disgusted noise.)]

I'll jump in since it's finally a topic of interest to me.

 

I usually play my characters as devout Andrastians, and I'd absolutely love for my next main guy to be more serious about it than Anders or Dorian were, however, it depends on how they're religious. I'd love for them to be religious in the way Cassandra was (hearing Cassandra talk about her faith was a really emotional moment for me because it reflected how I've felt about faith so often in real life), meaning someone who can think rationally and realistically while still believing. But if they would write his like DAO Leliana or Sebastian, than I'd rather they not bother. I've got no use for hollow, Bible camp platititues, not matter how genuine the character feels they are.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

I'd prefer them to be religious, yes. 

[Grieving Natashina]

I'll jump in since it's finally a topic of interest to me.

 

I usually play my characters as devout Andrastians, and I'd absolutely love for my next main guy to be more serious about it than Anders or Dorian were, however, it depends on how they're religious. I'd love for them to be religious in the way Cassandra was (hearing Cassandra talk about her faith was a really emotional moment for me because it reflected how I've felt about faith so often in real life), meaning someone who can think rationally and realistically while still believing. But if they would write his like DAO Leliana or Sebastian, than I'd rather they not bother. I've got no use for hollow, Bible camp platititues, not matter how genuine the character feels they are.

I gave you a like for Cassandra, but I thought Sebastian was very well done, to be honest.  I'm an agnostic and I didn't feel Sebastian was all that preachy.  In fact, his faith is one of the few things that I actually liked about the character.  Different strokes and all that.  

[sandalisthemaker]

I personally would not mind either way if the KISA is a devout Andrastian or not.

 

As far as other belief systems, if the KISA is non-human, then I think it depends on what race they are.  For a dwarf, I really would like them to believe in the ancestors and the Stone and all of the dwarfy cultural things. We've had way too much of Varric and his dislike of everything dwarven. IMO

 

For a Qunari, on the other hand, I really dislike the Qun and we've had Sten and Bull already. I would like a Tal-Vashoth. Not a Vashoth, but a Tal-Vashoth who used to be part of the Qun. Perhaps they were a lawless bandit at first, but then decided to pledge themself to a cause and became a KISA.

 

For an elf, IDK.  Elves are not preferable to me personally as a LI. But I would prefer a city elf if he/she was an elf which would probably mean Andrastian if anything. Perhaps a city elf who somehow finds him/herself elevated by humans to an honorable position due to their skill in combat. (Perhaps he/she served in the Inquisition and gained respect in that way).  IDK

[Potato Cat]

I personally would not mind either way if the KISA is a devout Andrastian or not.

 

As far as other belief systems, if the KISA is non-human, then I think it depends on what race they are.  For a dwarf, I really would like them to believe in the ancestors and the Stone and all of the dwarfy cultural things. We've had way too much of Varric and his dislike of everything dwarven. IMO

 

For a Qunari, on the other hand, I really dislike the Qun and we've had Sten and Bull already. I would like a Tal-Vashoth. Not a Vashoth, but a Tal-Vashoth who used to be part of the Qun. Perhaps they were a lawless bandit at first, but then decided to pledge themself to a cause and became a KISA.

 

For an elf, IDK.  Elves are not preferable to me personally as a LI. But I would prefer a city elf if he/she was an elf which would probably mean Andrastian if anything. Perhaps a city elf who somehow finds him/herself elevated by humans to an honorable position due to their skill in combat. (Perhaps he/she served in the Inquisition and gained respect in that way).  IDK

Is there really enough in the dwarves to have them be considered 'devout'? I'm not sure, but I would certainly like a more traditional dwarven companion, KISA or no. It's been a long time since we've really even spoken to a dwarfy dwarf for a considerable amount of time. Could also provide an interesting and potentially conflicting viewpoint on the Qunari/Tevinter issue, imo, if the games go that way. 

 

And I really like the idea that we could have a member of the Inquisition as a companion. Could lead to really nice source of reactivity. Maybe if the Inquisitor believed themselves chosen, they would be devout. Or like Varric in DAI if the new protagonists' choices mirror or vary from the Inquisitor's they would approve and disapprove accordingly.

[sandalisthemaker]

Is there really enough in the dwarves to have them be considered 'devout'? I'm not sure, but I would certainly like a more traditional dwarven companion, KISA or no. It's been a long time since we've really even spoken to a dwarfy dwarf for a considerable amount of time. Could also provide an interesting and potentially conflicting viewpoint on the Qunari/Tevinter issue, imo, if the games go that way. 

 

And I really like the idea that we could have a member of the Inquisition as a companion. Could lead to really nice source of reactivity. Maybe if the Inquisitor believed themselves chosen, they would be devout. Or like Varric in DAI if the new protagonists' choices mirror or vary from the Inquisitor's they would approve and disapprove accordingly.

 

Haha, yeah I want a dwarf who will nerd out about the paragons and the Stone.  

 

Yeah, a companion who is or was a member of the Inquisition- even if they were just a humble rank and file soldier- would be a neat way to tie DA:I to DA4.  A nice bonus would be some variable banter about the Inquisition based on choices inputted into the Keep.

[Grieving Natashina]

Haha, yeah I want a dwarf who will nerd out about the paragons and the Stone.  

 

Yeah, a companion who is or was a member of the Inquisition- even if they were just a humble rank and file soldier- would be a neat way to tie DA:I to DA4.  A nice bonus would be some variable banter about the Inquisition based on choices inputted into the Keep.

I think the chance of at least someone from the Inquisition being in the next DA game is pretty good.  I've mentioned this in other threads, but BioWare seems to adore their returning characters.   I also suspect that the next game isn't going to have the stakes set so high.  I think there should be a more humble hero with a more of an intimate story after preventing the destruction of the fabric of reality in DA:I.   It would be nice to have companions that match that too.  I'm good with being called "Your Worship" for quite some time, or otherwise being seen as some sort of religious figure.  Or being the savior for all of Thedas.  I like the idea of someone not famous or that special, for both a companion and the PC.  

[sandalisthemaker]

I think the chance of at least someone from the Inquisition being in the next DA game is pretty good.  I've mentioned this in other threads, but BioWare seems to adore their returning characters.   I also suspect that the next game isn't going to have the stakes set so high.  I think there should be a more humble hero with a more of an intimate story after preventing the destruction of the fabric of reality in DA:I.   It would be nice to have companions that match that too.  I'm good with being called "Your Worship" for quite some time, or otherwise being seen as some sort of religious figure.  Or being the savior for all of Thedas.  I like the idea of someone not famous or that special, for both a companion and the PC.  

 

I would be all for a more intimate story.  I liked that about DA2.  I don't care what anyone says, I love DA2 and will defend that game to the day I die. The only thing I disliked was the reused environments. The story was great, and to have an intimate story again would be fine with me.

[Tayah]

I personally would not mind either way if the KISA is a devout Andrastian or not.

 

As far as other belief systems, if the KISA is non-human, then I think it depends on what race they are.  For a dwarf, I really would like them to believe in the ancestors and the Stone and all of the dwarfy cultural things. We've had way too much of Varric and his dislike of everything dwarven. IMO

 

For a Qunari, on the other hand, I really dislike the Qun and we've had Sten and Bull already. I would like a Tal-Vashoth. Not a Vashoth, but a Tal-Vashoth who used to be part of the Qun. Perhaps they were a lawless bandit at first, but then decided to pledge themself to a cause and became a KISA.

 

For an elf, IDK.  Elves are not preferable to me personally as a LI. But I would prefer a city elf if he/she was an elf which would probably mean Andrastian if anything. Perhaps a city elf who somehow finds him/herself elevated by humans to an honorable position due to their skill in combat. (Perhaps he/she served in the Inquisition and gained respect in that way).  IDK

I would prefer not devoutly religious (I seem to share Daveliam's allergy to organised religion) but then again I'd prefer a non-human KISA anyway so a traditional dwarf would be great in that irreverent way they seem to value stone and ancestors. 

 

For me I think the Lady Qunari blacksmith idea that's floating around would be a case of someone becoming Tal-Vashoth for potentially noble reasons so they would not be part of the Qun because they believe the Qun was limited but still be a KISA in that they became Tal-Vashoth not for profit but because it was the way to improve life somehow... maybe hunting bandits who attacked their village or whatever lead to them picking up their weapons for fighting instead of making and selling them (or whatever they do with them once they've made them normally).

 

In the case of Elves I actually think a Dalish elf knight could be interesting especially if they start learning some of the things about their history and people's beliefs that challenge what they learned growing up and how that affects them or not in their loyalty to their people. It's something that you can't really do with an elven inquisitor unfortunately but being alongside a companion dealing with that and still being ultimately a KISA could be interesting too.

 

Just a few random thoughts... oh and an Avvar KISA might be interesting in how they handle their religion too... are Avvar usually devout? I haven't played the DLC so I'm not sure how that may have played out.

[(Disgusted noise.)]

I'd be down for a devout Avvar so freaking hard, even more so than gay man Cassandra. I'd also be fine with Stone believing Dwarf.

 

A Qun Qunari or a Dalish elf would be an automatic dealbreaker for me, though, so I'm hoping we don't get either of those. (For both the bi and gay male characters. I'm really hoping I'll finally get two options I like.)

 

I gave you a like for Cassandra, but I thought Sebastian was very well done, to be honest.  I'm an agnostic and I didn't feel Sebastian was all that preachy.  In fact, his faith is one of the few things that I actually liked about the character.  Different strokes and all that.  

 

Different experiences, maybe? I'm not agnostic or athiest and Sebastian reminded me of everything I don't like about religious people. But then again, I loathe everything else about him, so I'm probably not the most objective judge of just his faith related content.

[Hellion Rex]

I'll jump in since it's finally a topic of interest to me.

 

I usually play my characters as devout Andrastians, and I'd absolutely love for my next main guy to be more serious about it than Anders or Dorian were, however, it depends on how they're religious. I'd love for them to be religious in the way Cassandra was (hearing Cassandra talk about her faith was a really emotional moment for me because it reflected how I've felt about faith so often in real life), meaning someone who can think rationally and realistically while still believing. But if they would write his like DAO Leliana or Sebastian, than I'd rather they not bother. I've got no use for hollow, Bible camp platititues, not matter how genuine the character feels they are.

*Bangs on the table*

 

YES. More of this! Cassandra is perfection.

[Vanth]

You don't even really have to read far into the thread, because in the OP...

 

That's all very well, but what does "morally noble" mean exactly? Haven't we decided that all morality is relative, so if the villains of the piece truly believe in what they are doing, aren't they also "moral"? Surely the only people who are not are those who violate their own moral beliefs?

[daveliam]

That's all very well, but what does "morally noble" mean exactly? Haven't we decided that all morality is relative, so if the villains of the piece truly believe in what they are doing, aren't they also "moral"? Surely the only people who are not are those who violate their own moral beliefs?

 

What's the point of this line of reasoning, I wonder?  Is it to refute that KISAs exist at all?  Or is it just to point out that not everyone will be happy with the KISA should we get him/her because KISAs come in various 'flavors'?

[Hellion Rex]

I gave you a like for Cassandra, but I thought Sebastian was very well done, to be honest.  I'm an agnostic and I didn't feel Sebastian was all that preachy.  In fact, his faith is one of the few things that I actually liked about the character.  Different strokes and all that.  

Hmmmmm, in regards to Sebastian, I think my problem was that I just didn't really like the guy to be honest. It wasn't his religious beliefs that bugged me, cause I love Cassandra to death, forever and ever, the end.

[daveliam]

Hmmmmm, in regards to Sebastian, I think my problem was that I just didn't really like the guy to be honest. It wasn't his religious beliefs that bugged me, cause I love Cassandra to death, forever and ever, the end.

 

I have not given up on the idea of a Nevarran Dragon Hunter for our KISA.  Imagine a distant cousin of Cassandra's, who has a few familial similarities to her, but is a fearless dragon hunter (and gay)?  Swoon.  I'd even settle for him having her dark coloring because, in my mind, I see Pedro Pascal for this character.

[Lady Artifice]

That's all very well, but what does "morally noble" mean exactly? Haven't we decided that all morality is relative, so if the villains of the piece truly believe in what they are doing, aren't they also "moral"? Surely the only people who are not are those who violate their own moral beliefs?

 

I'm not quite certain why you're quoting me on this, since my point seems to have little to do with yours. I suspect it's just the easiest window you could find to voice your disagreement with the general topic of the thread.

 

But here goes. 

 

I acknowledge that morality is a relative concept.

 

However, the suggestion that moral relativity renders the existence of an archetype with moral aspects indefinable to the point of invalid, seems to lack a recognition what an archetype is. An archetype is typically both iconic and vague, subject to many different interpretations and representations. The vagueness of this concept does not render its application useless, just very general. It's like the shadowy outline of a character sketch, with none of the specifics filled in. 

 

A femme fatale is an archetype as well, something that Bioware has played with (and usually subverted) with characters like Morrigan and Miranda. One person might argue that Morrigan's blunt qualities make her less of a femme fatale, another person might consider her to fit the archetype quintessentially. Both perspectives are valid, neither of them are a cause to forego considering that archetype when we consider Morrigan. 

 

When people talk about morality and nobility in regards to the KISA, they are usually referring to altruism as opposed to say, social darwinism. 

 

A person who is altruistic might not be deemed a truly moral person by everyone. Cassandra is altruistic, in that she sacrifices her time, effort, safety, and even her passions for other people. Even so, there are people who consider her priorities to be ones that they deem immoral, and it's possible to take that view even while acknowledge that she fits the archetype of a KISA. 

 

So, while this concept is subjective, it is still very possible to explore it and apply it in fiction. 

[Steelcan]

I have not given up on the idea of a Nevarran Dragon Hunter for our KISA.  Imagine a distant cousin of Cassandra's, who has a few familial similarities to her, but is a fearless dragon hunter (and gay)?  Swoon.  I'd even settle for him having her dark coloring because, in my mind, I see Pedro Pascal for this character.

Not the best word choice