"Everyone's lonely" as if everyone experiences the same kind of loneliness.
"Everyone experiences rejection" as if everyone experiences the same kind of rejection.
And everyone should deal with it the same way.
Yep. No excuses.
Edited: Yes in the sense that they are commonly felt, the magnitude and quantity will probably change person to person.
Everyone should deal with it in the same way though, find something that works.
Hence me using the word big in front of flaws. Bioware has been gravitating towards the whole "Hey, flawed/morally grey/edgy characters are cool" setups when it comes to their companions lately, and I'm not a fan. I miss having genuinely good characters. We're lucky to get more than one a game as a companion.
Well you know if people just said I don't like Dorian being X or Y we could of just been like oh yeah neither do I lets have a character minus that.
Instead it was built on a platform of "Everyone's perfect" that makes no sense.
How did you get to that conclusion? 
How did you get to that conclusion?
By reading. It was made explicit somewhere in the middle that like "no one" has a problem with the current homosexual characters. The first post also specifically mentions that it's not necessarily a bad thing (in other words, there's nothing wrong with them)
Note that this is not necessarily a bad thing, as grayness tends to make for interesting characters.
Well you know if people just said I don't like Dorian being X or Y we could of just been like oh yeah neither do I lets have a character minus that.
Instead it was built on a platform of "Everyone's perfect" that makes no sense.
No, it was built on a platform of "I like this, but I've never gotten that, and I would like to try that now please, because I never have before."
Chocolate and lemon, seriously. You can want both.
Considering how much blood these genuinely good companions would have on their hands after travelling with a Bioware protagonist, in what way would they be genuinely good?
More importantly, knowing how many people they will or have had a hand in killing, why would a genuinely good person join or continue a Bioware protagonist?
It's not like it's murder. It's warfare, so in the same branch as defending yourself since if they don't fight they or their friend/ally will be killed.
That said, a lot of companions lately are perfectly accepting of murder, and that's one place where I start to have issues.
Alright, that's all I've got. Goodnight.
Yep. No excuses.
Sorry Kefka, but you're wrong.
Not everyone suffers loneliness or rejection or anything else equally. Some get it better, and some get it far, far worse.
It's not like it's murder. It's warfare, so in the same branch as defending yourself since if they don't fight they or their friend/ally will be killed.
That said, a lot of companions lately are perfectly accepting of murder, and that's one place where I start to have issues.
No, it was built on a platform "I like this, but I've never gotten that, and I would like to try that now please, because I never have before."
Chocolate and lemon, seriously. You can want both.
Another problem is the things you like in lemon might be the same things you like in chocolate. If you eventually try both and prefer one over the other, it might be that you never really liked chocolate itself that much but it was really just the cake batter, and lemon was a better frosting from the beginning. It seems to make more sense to consider what you like in one or the other first and foremost, then you can bake your own cake and eat it too.
Sorry Kefka, but you're wrong.
Not everyone suffers loneliness or rejection or anything else equally. Some get it better, and some get it far, far worse.
That's not what I said, some do get it better, some get it far, far worse, but it doesn't change what you should do to approach or resolve the situation.
There are probably some people where anywhere they are, whatever they are, it's always been completely horrible and misunderstood.... still doesn't change anything.
Warfare means doing f***** up s*** though INCLUDING murder.
Whether you like it or not these genuinely good people are still killers and killing isn't something a genuinely good person would be doing.
No, it doesn't. It can involve murder, but it isn't a required part. In fact, things like murdering people is seen as war crimes and are frowned upon in militaries. Fighting people who are trying to kill you to the death is not murder, but self-defense.
No, it doesn't. It can involve murder, but it isn't a required part. In fact, things like murdering people is seen as war crimes and are frowned upon in militaries. Fighting people who are trying to kill you to the death is not murder, but self-defense.
None of which changes the fact that they kill many, many people. More than many of those you would consider bad.
Killing people has to be entirely context specific to determine right or wrong.
None of which changes the fact that they kill many, many people. More than many of those you would consider bad.
Defense of self/others = good
Murder = bad
That's the difference.
Lately, we've been getting more and more characters who think "murder = good" rather than "murder = bad". I am not a fan of that.
Killing people has to be entirely context specific to determine right or wrong.
Another problem is the things you like in lemon might be the same things you like in chocolate. If you eventually try both and prefer one over the other, it might be that you never really liked chocolate itself that much but it was really just the cake batter, and lemon was a better frosting from the beginning. It seems to make more sense to consider what you like in one or the other first and foremost, then you can bake your own cake and eat it too.
Ultimately this is your problem. Most people in the thread are able to accept Dorian and others as fine characters, but would like something different next game. Their explanations as to why they are okay with this can't satisfy you, because you're not accepting that it isn't an issue for them.
You keep dragging this round and round in circles, but it doesn't change anything. The thread is asking for a character who is gay, and a knight in shining armour.
None of which changes the fact that they kill many, many people. More than many of those you would consider bad.
I think arguing about the morality of killing is a lengthy discussion that you probably won't resolve. As far as BioWare characters go, maybe it's enough to say that they're* as good as they can be?
*Hypothetically. Some are jerks obviously.
Here's another thought for you: in the alternate reality where Alistair, Aveline, Sebastian, Cassandra, Blackwall and Cullen are all gay or bisexual while every LI that's gay or bi in this reality is straight (somehow ...) there's a thread complaining that BioWare always make their morally ambiguous romances straight and calling for a dashing gay or bisexual rogue. It probably wouldn't have all the same posters in it, but I'd bet on its existence.
If you offer people nothing but lemon pie, they will eventually want chocolate just as much as if you keep offering them chocolate they'll ask for lemon.
Defense of self/others = good
Murder = bad
That's the difference.
Lately, we've been getting more and more characters who think "murder = good" rather than "murder = bad". I am not a fan of that.
Like I said, Blackwall is my favourite DAI romance so far. Fenris is my favourite DA romance of all time to this point. They are both just big piles of flaws - and that's what makes the relationships interesting.
*look at my profile pic* Yes. For me it takes a lot of thinking and patience to love characters who are deeply flawed, but when that happens they have become my all time favorite LIs.
So why I want to see a gay KISA? Well, after playing through DA2 for 8 times (romance Anders 7 times) and romancing Dorian for 2 times, I just really want to see another type of LI, namely a gay KISA.
Ultimately this is your problem. Most people in the thread are able to accept Dorian and others as fine characters, but would like something different next game. Their explanations as to why they are okay with this can't satisfy you, because you're not accepting that it isn't an issue for them.
That's an entire point of this thread, summed up nicely into a sentence.
Yes. It was chaotic. There was hissing and the fur flew everywhere.
But I don't really intend to come to this thread to debate, so I'm quite ready for it to go back to the peaceful haven it usually is...
The only thing is, what's the next change in conversation?
It might say as much about how much of a film nerd I am as anything. Lol. I took three semesters of film studies. Horror film. Race and gender in film. Film theory.
There was a lot of Freud. It was horrible. And wonderful.
But seriously, you haven't seen Die Hard?
In your opinion. Personally I prefer genuinely good people than people who have big flaws.
For what it's worth, Alistair, Merrill, and Sebastian all struck me as quintessentially "good", but I'll be damned if they didn't have huge glaring flaws. Like, the size of craters.
You can be someone who strives to do the right thing and still fucks up all the time.
I totally agree. All three of them are 'good' characters and all of them had really giant flaws. So giant that each have dedicated bases of the fandom that dislike the characters.
Keeping on the KISA point, I think a KISA with a flaw is a much more interesting and dynamic character than ones that don't have flaws. Don't get me wrong, I liked Ajantis too. But I find DA KISA's, each of whom is flawed, to be more interesting overall. I'd like to see a gay KISA have some flaws as well. Otherwise, s/he'd come across as a flat stereotype of a character.
To be honest, I don't even mind a character like Blackwall. I know that Thomas Ranier was certainly not a KISA, but "Blackwall" was, even if it was originally as a facade to hide his identity. But the Blackwall that I recruited and fought beside as an ally was very much a KISA in many ways. I thought that his story was a really interesting twist on a KISA archetype.
I also like the idea of a KISA who is dedicated to the other side of the conflict at first and eventually comes around to join the PC. Like the idea of a Ser Cauthrien style character who is bound by honor to serve the antagonist and is a minor antagonist at first.
For what it's worth, Alistair, Merrill, and Sebastian all struck me as quintessentially "good", but I'll be damned if they didn't have huge glaring flaws. Like, the size of craters.
You can be someone who strives to do the right thing and still fucks up all the time.
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