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[Andraste_Reborn]

Like the idea of a Ser Cauthrien style character who is bound by honor to serve the antagonist and is a minor antagonist at first.

 

Cauthrien is like the great forgotten KISA of the DA series. Why haven't we talked about her before? (Uh, unless we have. I admit to not having read all 165 pages of the thread in exhaustive detail.) I'd certainly like to see a companion who was in a similar position before joining you - an honourable warrior devoted to a cause or a commander that turns out not to be quite what they thought it was. (Whatever you think of Loghain and/or what happened at Ostagar, hiring assassins and selling people into slavery seems to be firmly beyond the pale for any self-respecting KISA.) We get a bit of that with Cassandra in DAI, but it's not like she's actually working for the Seekers directly when we meet her.

 

That last confrontation where you can talk Cauthrien out of fighting you is one of my favourite DAO moments.

[In Exile]

Cauthrien is like the great forgotten KISA of the DA series. Why haven't we talked about her before? (Uh, unless we have. I admit to not having read all 165 pages of the thread in exhaustive detail.) I'd certainly like to see a companion who was in a similar position before joining you - an honourable warrior devoted to a cause or a commander that turns out not to be quite what they thought it was. (Whatever you think of Loghain and/or what happened at Ostagar, hiring assassins and selling people into slavery seems to be firmly beyond the pale for any self-respecting KISA.) We get a bit of that with Cassandra in DAI, but it's not like she's actually working for the Seekers directly when we meet her.

 

That last confrontation where you can talk Cauthrien out of fighting you is one of my favourite DAO moments.

We don't talk about her, I think, because she's Loghain's Dragon and people see that trope as inconsistent with the KISA trope. 

 

Interestingly I've never managed to talk Cautherin out of fighting. 

[Hanako Ikezawa]

For what it's worth, Alistair, Merrill, and Sebastian all struck me as quintessentially "good", but I'll be damned if they didn't have huge glaring flaws. Like, the size of craters.

You can be someone who strives to do the right thing and still fucks up all the time.

As I said earlier, I thought by flaws people were talking about morality flaws. 

[DirkJake]

For what it's worth, Alistair, Merrill, and Sebastian all struck me as quintessentially "good", but I'll be damned if they didn't have huge glaring flaws. Like, the size of craters.

You can be someone who strives to do the right thing and still fucks up all the time.

 

Except for Sebastian, I agree. He is too far from my "good" end of the spectrum for me. But yes, I agree with your last sentence.

 

Cauthrien is like the great forgotten KISA of the DA series. Why haven't we talked about her before? (Uh, unless we have. I admit to not having read all 165 pages of the thread in exhaustive detail.) I'd certainly like to see a companion who was in a similar position before joining you - an honourable warrior devoted to a cause or a commander that turns out not to be quite what they thought it was. (Whatever you think of Loghain and/or what happened at Ostagar, hiring assassins and selling people into slavery seems to be firmly beyond the pale for any self-respecting KISA.) We get a bit of that with Cassandra in DAI, but it's not like she's actually working for the Seekers directly when we meet her.

 

That last confrontation where you can talk Cauthrien out of fighting you is one of my favourite DAO moments.

 

 

I am much guilty of forgetting her. Most of the time I fight her (it is a challenging fight). A gay KISA like her would be interesting. This would also lead to a personal quest that deals with the KISA's commander (redemption arc).

[Hanako Ikezawa]

Except for Sebastian, I agree. He is too far from my "good" end of the spectrum for me. But yes, I agree with your last sentence.

*looks at your avatar*

I wonder why you would think that. 

[Hellion Rex]

We don't talk about her, I think, because she's Loghain's Dragon and people see that trope as inconsistent with the KISA trope.

Interestingly I've never managed to talk Cautherin out of fighting.

I've only managed it once out of like 50 origins runs.

[Andraste_Reborn]

Huh, I think I only did that fight twice in seven runs. Once because my character didn't have maxed Coercion for a change, and once because my casteless dwarf was on an epic quest to murder everyone he possibly could. (OK, I actually played DAO nine times, but that's because I redid two of my characters.)

 

My headcanon - never likely to be contradicted since she's dead in some world states - is that my 'canon' Hero of Ferelden invited Cauthrien to join the Wardens after she got things sorted out in Amaranthine.

[dgcatanisiri]

It's frustrating for me with Cauthrien, because I want to spare her at the Landsmeet, but I also keep wanting to go through the other dialogues first, that I keep thinking that this is going to be like the fight with Darth Sion, that you need to bring up Loghain's crimes and have her hear how hollow her justifications are, so I don't take that Coercion option first, and it goes away if you don't. I WANT her to live, but it's always hard to remember that the one path is one-time exclusive.

 

I think that a character like Cauthrien could make for a good KISA LI though - they appear with a villain at the start, maybe a brief conversation is available before the villain goes open with their plans, or maybe is operating under a temporary banner of truce, or something to that effect, discussing their loyalty to the villain, and that as like the climax to the first act, they turn on the villain and join the team, and that their big character storyline in the game would be attempting to redeem themselves.

[AresKeith]

Cauthrien is like the great forgotten KISA of the DA series. Why haven't we talked about her before? (Uh, unless we have. I admit to not having read all 165 pages of the thread in exhaustive detail.) I'd certainly like to see a companion who was in a similar position before joining you - an honourable warrior devoted to a cause or a commander that turns out not to be quite what they thought it was. (Whatever you think of Loghain and/or what happened at Ostagar, hiring assassins and selling people into slavery seems to be firmly beyond the pale for any self-respecting KISA.) We get a bit of that with Cassandra in DAI, but it's not like she's actually working for the Seekers directly when we meet her.

 

That last confrontation where you can talk Cauthrien out of fighting you is one of my favourite DAO moments.

 

I wanted Cauthrien to return in DA:I, also wanted King Alistair/Queen Anora to play more of a part also

[sandalisthemaker]

Sigh. I've been busy of late and keep missing all the good stuff.   Glad to see you guys still keeping this thread relevant when I'm not around. 

[Grieving Natashina]

I've only managed it once out of like 50 origins runs.

I've never had to fight her.  I usually dump all the points the game will let me into Persuade before picking most other skills.  By the time I hit the Landsmeet, I'm charming enough to sway her.  That and it helps that I almost always play rogues.  

 

Personally, she's a great example of a cleric-type character we talked about a few weeks back.  This is someone that thought she was doing the right thing, that thought she was working for the hero.  With the help of a very persuasive Warden, she realizes that Loghain finally lost all perspective.  I think this could be a compelling idea for a KISA and one that we haven't had in the party yet.  I'm searching my brain, and maybe Cullen comes close to this idea.  However, as much as I ended up liking Cullen as a character (even tweeted his author a sincere thank you,) he's straight and not a party member.  I think it would be fun and an interesting journey for the writers if they touch on this idea.  It's not new to BioWare games by any stretch, but I think it's worth re-exploring in Dragon Age.  

 

Perhaps a KISA that thinks he's working for a kind and decent lord, only it turns out to be an Envy demon in disguise.  Seriously, I want to see the Envy demons again.  Since I think the next game is going to be more focused on personal stories and intrigue, that would be the time to see more varieties of desire demons (like a male one that is as scantily clad as the original female one, but ones like Imshael too,) as well as the return of envy demons.

 

 

Sigh. I've been busy of late and keep missing all the good stuff.   Glad to see you guys still keeping this thread relevant when I'm not around. 

We try.  Oh boy it isn't easy sometimes, but we try hun.  <hugs>

[Seraphim24]

Ultimately this is your problem. Most people in the thread are able to accept Dorian and others as fine characters, but would like something different next game. Their explanations as to why they are okay with this can't satisfy you, because you're not accepting that it isn't an issue for them.

 

You keep dragging this round and round in circles, but it doesn't change anything. The thread is asking for a character who is gay, and a knight in shining armour.

 

And if you never figure out what it is about these homosexual dark streaky Dorian characters that is so dissatisfying that should be remedies by a KISA this thread is going to keep going round and round in circles.

 

Anyway, whatever.

[AresKeith]

And if you never figure out what it is about these homosexual dark streaky Dorian characters that is so dissatisfying that should be remedies by a KISA this thread is going to keep going round and round in circles.

 

Anyway, whatever.

 

The fact that you assume this is the reason behind this thread is the problem

[Grieving Natashina]

The fact that you assume this is the reason behind this thread is the problem

Yep.  I'd rather talk about more KISA ideas than continuing to indulge someone's circular rant.  It's taking the fun out of the thread and kind of derailing the topic.  If they don't see the point after pages of debate, then let them be.  They are welcome to start a thread that talks about what they want.  They can start one stating that LI requests are pointless for all I care.  However, let's not let them overtake this thread again for a bit.  

 

So, Ares, we've talked about a Rivani captain before.  Any particular personality quirks (that's still within the KISA archetype) that you would like to see?  I know you'd like blondes and Cauthrien has a personality type you like.  I think we're heading to Rivian/Antiva or Nevarra next.  I'm betting there is a good chance we'll be hitting the Anderfels in a DLC for DA:I.  We've gotta find out what happened to Hawke or the surviving Warden after all.  Also, what do you think of the Envy demon idea?

[sandalisthemaker]

And if you never figure out what it is about these homosexual dark streaky Dorian characters that is so dissatisfying that should be remedies by a KISA this thread is going to keep going round and round in circles.

 

Anyway, whatever.

 

Dorian isn't dissatisfying to me as a character. He and Vivienne are my favorite companions in DA:I. He doesn't need to be "remedied" by the inclusion of a gay KISA.

 

I am simply asking for a variety in regards to the same-sex romance options.  Others here have been saying as much already, and I don't know how else to make it more clear.

 

You aren't the first poster here to somehow think this thread is bashing the current gay companions, with Dorian being the one brought up the most.  However, many if not most of the regulars here like Dorian. 

[carlo angelo]

So. We were talking about character concepts dealing with knights, yes?

 

The whole talk about knights from an opposition who eventually come around to ally with you makes me feel all tingly inside.

 

...I feel like sketching up this character now.

[AresKeith]

So, Ares, we've talked about a Rivani captain before.  Any particular personality quirks (that's still within the KISA archetype) that you would like to see?  I know you'd like blondes and Cauthrien has a personality type you like.  I think we're heading to Rivian/Antiva or Nevarra next.  I'm betting there is a good chance we'll be hitting the Anderfels in a DLC for DA:I.  We've gotta find out what happened to Hawke or the surviving Warden after all.  Also, what do you think of the Envy demon idea?

 

Hair color isn't really a issue for me (though I personally would like to see white hair lol ) I only suggested a blonde Chevalier because we rarely see them lol

 

A personality similar to Cauthrien would be good, though I also like a laid-back person on their off time (which is what I'd want for my Rivaini Archer )

 

What was the Envy demon idea?

[Grieving Natashina]

Hair color isn't really a issue for me (though I personally would like to see white hair lol ) I only suggested a blonde Chevalier because we rarely see them lol

 

A personality similar to Cauthrien would be good, though I also like a laid-back person on their off time (which is what I'd want for my Rivaini Archer )

 

What was the Envy demon idea?

Well, awhile back the idea of a cleric-type KISA came up.  I was thinking that this cleric (like a member of the Avvar) or a priest(ess) could be working for someone/something that they think is benign and good.  Instead, it turns out to be a demon in disguise.  I thought this would apply to other kinds of KISAs as well.  The Envy demon showed an intelligence and cunning that I hadn't seen yet in DA.  They are also perfect mimics and would probably be able to quietly lead someone astray.  Say, the KISA's lord did the same thing as the Lord Seeker, by giving themselves over to an Envy demon for mimicry.  Or forcibly possessed.  It could either be someone more on the mundane side, like a Seeker (though they do have magic-like powers,) or someone that's a mage and was hiding it for years.  Like Connor, but stronger and older, only they eventually fall into temptation.  Something like that.

 

I personally think that Envy demons are a very neat introduction to the series, and I think that perhaps one trying to manipulate a KISA would be an interesting story.

[AresKeith]

Well, awhile back the idea of a cleric-type KISA came up.  I was thinking that this cleric (like a member of the Avvar) or a priest(ess) could be working for someone/something that they think is benign and good.  Instead, it turns out to be a demon in disguise.  I thought this would apply to other kinds of KISAs as well.  The Envy demon showed an intelligence and cunning that I hadn't seen yet in DA.  They are also perfect mimics and would probably be able to quietly lead someone astray.  Say, the KISA's lord did the same thing as the Lord Seeker, by giving themselves over to an Envy demon for mimicry.  Or forcibly possessed.  It could either be someone more on the mundane side, like a Seeker (though they do have magic-like powers,) or someone that's a mage and was hiding it for years.  Like Connor, but stronger and older, only they eventually fall into temptation.  Something like that.

 

I personally think that Envy demons are a very neat introduction to the series, and I think that perhaps one trying to manipulate a KISA would be an interesting story.

 

Yea, that's actually one of the reasons why I liked Champions of Just over the Mage quest 

 

Envy was a really well done enemy

[Grieving Natashina]

Yea, that's actually one of the reasons why I liked Champions of Just over the Mage quest 

 

Envy was a really well done enemy

I'm of two minds about it.  Envy was one of the best villains in the game, and in some ways more menacing than Cory.  Ser Barras was a great character (a good example of the KISA being led astray like I mentioned, as well as very cute,) and I wish they could have made it to where he wasn't the boss on the mage side during the Haven sequence.  The Sandal-looking dwarf was a neat but weird easter egg, and I love when a villain has a fascination with taunting the hero.  As an aside, the Nightmare demon in the Fade is probably my favorite in the game.  It was also a fitting way to introduce Cole, more so than him showing up on your doorstep.

 

On the other hand, I felt that the mage side was a great glimpse into the ruined future.  There isn't a lot of cases where the devs will show you what happens if you screw up.  The bad ending to Arrival in ME2 and Chrono Trigger's bad ending (if you die to Lavos) are a couple of examples, but I think they are effective.  Seeing such a familiar area like Redcliffe Castle destroyed, and looking at the sky, takes your goals and drives them home.  It was a fun way to group with Dorian for the first time, and I enjoyed working together with him quite a bit.  He was my best bud and my brother before that sequence was over.  The boss fight was a big letdown though.  _{Not as much as Cory's boss fight.  Barely awake in DA2=gave me a helluva time on Nightmare.  Fully awake in DA:I=I killed him so fast the first time I bugged out the fight.}

[AresKeith]

I'm of two minds about it.  Envy was one of the best villains in the game, and in some ways more menacing than Cory.  Ser Barras was a great character (a good example of the KISA being led astray like I mentioned, as well as very cute,) and I wish they could have made it to where he wasn't the boss on the mage side during the Haven sequence.  The Sandal-looking dwarf was a neat but weird easter egg, and I love when a villain has a fascination with taunting the hero.  As an aside, the Nightmare demon in the Fade is probably my favorite in the game.  It was also a fitting way to introduce Cole, more so than him showing up on your doorstep.

 

Barris wasn't the boss on the mage Side, that was the Knight Captain dude

 

I'm also sad Ishmael didn't play a role in the main plot

 

 

On the other hand, I felt that the mage side was a great glimpse into the ruined future.  There isn't a lot of cases where the devs will show you what happens if you screw up.  The bad ending to Arrival in ME2 and Chrono Trigger's bad ending (if you die to Lavos) are a couple of examples, but I think they are effective.  Seeing such a familiar area like Redcliffe Castle destroyed, and looking at the sky, takes your goals and drives them home.  It was a fun way to group with Dorian for the first time, and I enjoyed working together with him quite a bit.  He was my best bud and my brother before that sequence was over.  The boss fight was a big letdown though.  _{Not as much as Cory's boss fight.  Barely awake in DA2=gave me a helluva time on Nightmare.  Fully awake in DA:I=I killed him so fast the first time I bugged out the fight.}

 

My issue with the "Future Past" plot was that it was too short and we only stayed in the Castle to give the feel of a ruined future

[Hanako Ikezawa]

Envy was a really well done enemy

And in no way whatsoever ripped off the Fullmetal Alchemist character of the same name. 

[Grieving Natashina]

Barris wasn't the boss on the mage Side, that was the Knight Captain dude

 

I'm also sad Ishmael didn't play a role in the main plot

 

 

My issue with the "Future Past" plot was that it was too short and we only stayed in the Castle to give the feel of a ruined future

Oh, I didn't know that about Barris.  Potential future party member?  I guess that would leave his fate as "unknown."  I could get behind that idea and he seems like a great fit for much of what this thread has been talking about.  Learn something new every night.     

 

Imshael and his lack of screen time was one of the few things that left me yelling at my monitor that was related to the plot.  I was hoping to hear more about the entire Dalish clan he helped slaughter, as well as having more of a presence in the area itself.  In fact, I think that's one of the few serious weaknesses in the plot of the game.  

 

It seems like a lot of TME was built up only to be mostly dropped in the game.  Celene and Gaspard barely do anything on screen; Briala is more active, but we still don't have a clue about the orb she supposedly got (Solas' orb maybe?  Retcon?); Michel is a quest giver and not much else; Imshael and his entire story was barely touched on; Mihris (the surviving Dalish elf from the doomed clan) isn't even in the same country (she's the elf you talk to when you find your first elven artifact.)  Asunder had a greater impact, considering the Mage/Templar war becoming a full-scale conflict, Cole's presence, and the Lord Seeker's death all actually heavily playing into the plot of DA:I.

 

Sorry about the rant.  Hmm, I've only done the Templar side once.  Funny how much Barris fit in as a gay KISA.  He never says anything about his sexuality one way or the other (trying not to die when your boss has gone batshit crazy has a way of doing that,) so perhaps he could be given more characterization and could join our party in the next game.  It would be a good way to include a character that was apart of the events of DA:I without them saying, "I was there when Corypheus fell."

[Hanako Ikezawa]

Oh, I didn't know that about Barris.  Potential future party member?  I guess that would leave his fate as "unknown."  I could get behind that idea and he seems like a great fit for much of what this thread has been talking about.  Learn something new every night.      

Barris can die in that quest, so doubt he'll be a party member. 

[Grieving Natashina]

That hasn't stopped BioWare before, and that seems like something they can work with.  The Warden was wrong about Leliana if they defeated her, why not the Inquisitor about Barris?  

 

I like the character, but I'm enjoying the idea of him as a party member due to the number of Barris fans I've seen in the thread.  If nothing else, he's an excellent template for the archetype.