7149 réponses à ce sujet

[Gairnulf]

1. If they prefer it that way, it's up to them. I don't want to force anybody into anything, otherwise what does that make me?

2. They are not obliged to open to the PC. It's up to the player to roleplay, which requires imagination, even in the days of Frostbite 3, and soon, DX12.

3. What the tendency is, is again up to the player, because the game revolves on their computer and in their mind. If somebody wants to play out their fantasies of the real world using a computer game as a model for that, they are free to do so, but why insist on altering every other player's experience. Alter only your own.

4. I don't think the audience would benefit from being educated, in an overt manner, about sexuality and sexual tolerance through a computer game. I rather think the effect of such an attempt would be the opposite of what's desired.

5. What anyone assumes is anyone's own business, as long as their assumptions don't provoke actions injurious to others around them. My thoughts are mine, and can't injure anyone without my action.

 

On a sidenote, I've always thought Alistair was gay, or at the very least, he needed some guidance to accept this. I don't know if I'm not saying something that's very obvious and established fact, if so, excuse me. First, the way he mourned Duncan, whom he had known for only a year. Second, his virginity. Third he never once mentioned his affections towards a girl or a woman, though I may be wrong about that, at least I haven't heared him. Fourth, his sentimental nature which he would only demonstrate to his friend the Warden. I don't know, I've always suspected him, and I guess it has been designed deliberately so that it's up to the player to decide.

[daveliam]

The sexaul tension between Kaiden and Shepard in ME1 was ridiculous. Remember that pulsing light and Kaiden wipping away the sweat from his brow?

It looked like a scene out of a cheezy porno. While in terms of dialogue licking the lampost was more overt and misleading, in terms of actually setting a scene nothing will top the ME1 Shep/Kaiden moments as filled to the brim with sexual tension.

 

No kidding.  The fact that they kept this animation for the male Shepard makes me incredibly happy.  You could feel the tension between these guys.  I like to head canon it as Shep being a 'married to his job' type and Kaidan being unsure how to proceed with Shep since he gives off mixed signals.  Then, in ME 2, Kaidan can't control it any longer and gives his "losing you was like losing a limb" speech, which makes Shep realize that he feels the same way.  Then, in ME 3, Shep acts on it when Kaidan is in the hospital and our two strong, handsome, queer guys finally get their happy ending.   Well, maybe not that last part. 

 

Did I ever mention how much I love that romance, even if it were a pale version of the femShep one?  It's definitely the best m/m romance from Bioware.

 

Possibly.  But that doesn't help anyone.  I needs one who is out and proud.  Or, alternatively, if he/she isn't comfortable being out (due to Thedas' somewhat variable stance on homosexuality) then at least they could open up to the PC in private.   How else would the audience know otherwise? The tendency is to assume everyone is straight unless proven otherwise.

 

Exactly.  Saying that they probably exist but don't identify as such in any source material isn't much of a consolation.

 

C'mon devs!  Notice this thread and comment just once so we know that you heard us!

[Gairnulf]

I fail to understand what difference does it make to any sane person if they see it black on white. Homosexuality was, and is widespread in closed male groups, especially those restricted in their contact with the other sex: the army in various societies and periods of history, monastic orders, knightly orders, samurai circles, etc. Most DA templars have probably experimented with homosexuality, it's only logical to assume so. But of course you'll never see it explicitly stated. I think that would be underestimating the audience on Bioware's part.

[daveliam]

I fail to understand what difference does it make to any sane person if they see it black on white. Homosexuality was, and is widespread in closed male groups, especially those restricted in their contact with the other sex: the army in various societies and periods of history, monastic orders, knightly orders, samurai circles, etc. Most DA templars have probably experimented with homosexuality, it's only logical to assume so. But of course you'll never see it explicitly stated. I think that would be underestimating the audience on Bioware's part.

 

Because we want to see it explicitly stated for one character in the future.  We want them to explore the story of a gay/lesbian/bisexual knight in shining armor character because:  (1) This team has shown that they can write very compelling characters; (2) they obviously enjoy writing this archetype as there have been numerous examples in the series to date; and (3) this angle for the story hasn't been told yet.  It's a "fresh spin" on an old archetype and one that, clearly, many fans would enjoy.  I don't care if 80% of the population of Thedas has 'experimented with homosexuality'.  That's not relevant to this thread.  In this thread, we are asking for the story of gay KISA to be explicitly written and explored in a future game. 

[daveliam]

1. If they prefer it that way, it's up to them. I don't want to force anybody into anything, otherwise what does that make me?

2. They are not obliged to open to the PC. It's up to the player to roleplay, which requires imagination, even in the days of Frostbite 3, and soon, DX12.

3. What the tendency is, is again up to the player, because the game revolves on their computer and in their mind. If somebody wants to play out their fantasies of the real world using a computer game as a model for that, they are free to do so, but why insist on altering every other player's experience. Alter only your own.

4. I don't think the audience would benefit from being educated, in an overt manner, about sexuality and sexual tolerance through a computer game. I rather think the effect of such an attempt would be the opposite of what's desired.

5. What anyone assumes is anyone's own business, as long as their assumptions don't provoke actions injurious to others around them. My thoughts are mine, and can't injure anyone without my action.

 

On a sidenote, I've always thought Alistair was gay, or at the very least, he needed some guidance to accept this. I don't know if I'm not saying something that's very obvious and established fact, if so, excuse me. First, the way he mourned Duncan, whom he had known for only a year. Second, his virginity. Third he never once mentioned his affections towards a girl or a woman, though I may be wrong about that, at least I haven't heared him. Fourth, his sentimental nature which he would only demonstrate to his friend the Warden. I don't know, I've always suspected him, and I guess it has been designed deliberately so that it's up to the player to decide.

 

Also, I'm not asking for this to "educate" the public about sexuality.  I'm asking for it because I would enjoy it.  Was Morrigan's story designed to educate the public about sexuality?  Of course not.  It's absurd to think that and it would be equally absurd to assume that a gay KISA character exists just to educate the public as well.

 

And, about Alistair, "lamppost licking" aside, he's straight.  None of the things that you listed point to homosexuality to me.  And, of course, the biggest piece of evidence is the fact that he's not open for m/m romance.  There's nothing left for me 'to decide' about it.  He's straight.

[Gairnulf]

So, the devs are supposed to put something in the game because "you want to see it explicitly stated"? It seems to me you want a different game.

[Lady Nuggins]

On a sidenote, I've always thought Alistair was gay, or at the very least, he needed some guidance to accept this. I don't know if I'm not saying something that's very obvious and established fact, if so, excuse me. First, the way he mourned Duncan, whom he had known for only a year. Second, his virginity. Third he never once mentioned his affections towards a girl or a woman, though I may be wrong about that, at least I haven't heared him. Fourth, his sentimental nature which he would only demonstrate to his friend the Warden. I don't know, I've always suspected him, and I guess it has been designed deliberately so that it's up to the player to decide.

 

Duncan was a father figure.  Much of Alistair's character arc revolves around his need for family and angst over his other father figure.  It's pretty clear that he latched onto Duncan as a replacement.

 

Are sentimentality and virginity not things that a straight man can experience? 

 

I'm guessing you've never played a female character, because Alistair is very clear about his affections for the female Warden.  

 

I fail to understand what difference does it make to any sane person if they see it black on white. Homosexuality was, and is widespread in closed male groups, especially those restricted in their contact with the other sex: the army in various societies and periods of history, monastic orders, knightly orders, samurai circles, etc. Most DA templars have probably experimented with homosexuality, it's only logical to assume so. But of course you'll never see it explicitly stated. I think that would be underestimating the audience on Bioware's part.

 

If this is assumed, why would they shy away from it?  Anders certainly loves to hint at all the dirty escapades that go on "under the skirts" in the Circle.  Why no banter about all the gay sex the Templars are apparently having?

 

Keeping gay content entirely as subtext does nothing other than make it easy for uncomfortable straight audiences to pretend it's not there. 

[daveliam]

So, the devs are supposed to put something in the game because "you want to see it explicitly stated"? It seems to me you want a different game.

 

Yes.  Devs put things in the game because they think their fans would want to see it.  In this thread, we are suggesting one particular plot that we'd like to see explored in a future game.  That's the entire point of the "Feedback and Suggestions" section of the board, right?

 

We are not asking them to change DA: I.  We are asking for future content.  So, yeah, we are talking about a different game.

[Who Knows]

How dare we suggest things in the suggestion forum section

[sandalisthemaker]

1. If they prefer it that way, it's up to them. I don't want to force anybody into anything, otherwise what does that make me?

2. They are not obliged to open to the PC. It's up to the player to roleplay, which requires imagination, even in the days of Frostbite 3, and soon, DX12.

3. What the tendency is, is again up to the player, because the game revolves on their computer and in their mind. If somebody wants to play out their fantasies of the real world using a computer game as a model for that, they are free to do so, but why insist on altering every other player's experience. Alter only your own.

4. I don't think the audience would benefit from being educated, in an overt manner, about sexuality and sexual tolerance through a computer game. I rather think the effect of such an attempt would be the opposite of what's desired.

5. What anyone assumes is anyone's own business, as long as their assumptions don't provoke actions injurious to others around them. My thoughts are mine, and can't injure anyone without my action.

 

On a sidenote, I've always thought Alistair was gay, or at the very least, he needed some guidance to accept this. I don't know if I'm not saying something that's very obvious and established fact, if so, excuse me. First, the way he mourned Duncan, whom he had known for only a year. Second, his virginity. Third he never once mentioned his affections towards a girl or a woman, though I may be wrong about that, at least I haven't heared him. Fourth, his sentimental nature which he would only demonstrate to his friend the Warden. I don't know, I've always suspected him, and I guess it has been designed deliberately so that it's up to the player to decide.

 

Thing is, BioWare is going to make gay companions, so I don't *have* to play pretend.  I'm just making known the kind of gay character I would like to see. And what are you even trying to say here? That having gay characters will somehow be detrimental to the sensibilities of the audience?

 

As far as the rest:  Alistair is a sensitive guy.  Guys can be sensitive without automatically making their sexuality suspect. As if sensitive and emotional somehow automatically equals gay.  It most certainly does not.

[Gairnulf]

Ok, I will avoid going into detailed analysis of Alistair, but for me he did feel significantly different than the other male characters. I haven't played through all of DAI with a female character. My girlfriend did though, and Alistair did fall in love with her female character. I don't think this proves or disproves anything about him though. And honestly I don't care if he is gay or not. Let whoever does care figure him out.

 

To my mind, a good RPG is first and foremost about having branching possibilities for how the player will go through the game. Multiple paths towards the same goal and mutually exclusive consequences following from the path chosen by the player.

 

I think the presence or the lack of gay characters is immaterial to this quality of a game. Having gay characters for the sake of having gay characters wouldn't contribute much to the quality of the game imo. Having meaningful characters on the other hand, would. That's what I had in mind when I said you seem to want a different game than what is offered.

[sandalisthemaker]

Ok, I will avoid going into detailed analysis of Alistair, but for me he did feel significantly different than the other male characters. I haven't played through all of DAI with a female character. My girlfriend did though, and Alistair did fall in love with her female character. I don't think this proves or disproves anything about him though. And honestly I don't care if he is gay or not. Let whoever does care figure him out.

 

To my mind, a good RPG is first and foremost about having branching possibilities for how the player will go through the game. Multiple paths towards the same goal and mutually exclusive consequences following from the path chosen by the player.

 

I think the presence or the lack of gay characters is immaterial to this quality of a game. Having gay characters for the sake of having gay characters wouldn't contribute much to the quality of the game imo. Having meaningful characters on the other hand, would. That's what I had in mind when I said you seem to want a different game than what is offered.

 

The devs have stated repeatedly that they create their characters to be companions first, and romances second.  So any future gay characters, just like the current ones- Dorian and Sera- will be fully fleshed out and interesting individuals. Their sexuality is just one part of them, whether or not the audience chooses to focus and fixate on the fact that they are gay and think that they are gay only for the sake of being gay, while ignoring the rest, is on them.

 

Funny how no one ever says of straight characters:  'Oh, he's/she's just straight for the sake of being straight.  His/her heterosexuality doesn't contribute at all to the plot or the game at large, so why include it?'

[Gairnulf]

Maybe nobody says that because nobody thinks it's important.

[Hellion Rex]

Thing is, BioWare is going to make gay companions, so I don't *have* to play pretend.  I'm just making known the kind of gay character I would like to see. And what are you even trying to say here? That having gay characters will somehow be detrimental to the sensibilities of the audience?

 

As far as the rest:  Alistair is a sensitive guy.  Guys can be sensitive without automatically making their sexuality suspect. As if sensitive and emotional somehow automatically equals gay.  It most certainly does not.

Preach.

 

[sandalisthemaker]

Maybe nobody says that because nobody thinks it's important.

 

And yet it shows up so frequently.  I think it is just taken for granted.  Look at any fantasy game, fantasy novel, action movie, etc.  They all tend to have romantic subplots for the main characters.  99% of the time those romantic subplots are heterosexual.  If their heterosexuality wasn't important, then it wouldn't be tied to the plot so often.

[daveliam]

I think the presence or the lack of gay characters is immaterial to this quality of a game.

 

For you. 

 

For me, and others in this thread, the presence of gay characters increases the quality of the game in our opinion.  And, thankfully, Bioware agrees and continues to include them in games.  We are given feedback on the type of character we would like to see in future games.

[Gairnulf]

For me, and others in this thread, the presence of gay characters increases the quality of the game in our opinion. 

 

How does it do that? In what way does it increase it?

[Gairnulf]

And yet it shows up so frequently.  I think it is just taken for granted.  Look at any fantasy game, fantasy novel, action movie, etc.  They all tend to have romantic subplots for the main characters.  99% of the time those romantic subplots are heterosexual.  If their heterosexuality wasn't important, then it wouldn't be tied to the plot so often.

 

Yes, heterosexual romances are more often described in fiction (I guess, although I don't have exact statistics) than homosexual ones. And is this a surprise to you?

[daveliam]

How does it do that? In what way does it increase it?

 

It allows me to see characters that are like me.  It gives me access to stories that resemble my perspective.  I have played games that feature only straight characters for over thirty years.  I continue to play and enjoy some of those games.  But now there are games that tell stories that I want to see and those games are often more enjoyable for me.

[Andir]

How does it do that? In what way does it increase it?

i can't speak for others, but for one having diversity in games is great even for the simple fact that it makes more diverse and fully fleshed out characters. 

 

another reason is that it adds familiarity and it's awesome to see that reflected in the games you play, the show you watch, the books you read. having characters that you can relate to in little ways just make them that much more connecting.

 

and thirdly, it makes it feel like your sexuality is just as important and meaningful as the others, and that it isn't just an after thought or added last moment. 

 

why does it bother you so much that others enjoy it? or that it is incorporated? : )

 

edit for wordz

[sandalisthemaker]

Yes, heterosexual romances are more often described in fiction (I guess, although I don't have exact statistics) than homosexual ones. And is this a surprise to you?

 

Nope. Just pointing out that a character's heterosexuality can be used to drive a romantic plot, so why not a character's homosexuality?  Why should a gay character be kept hidden or relegated to subtext?

[Gairnulf]

It allows me to see characters that are like me.  It gives me access to stories that resemble my perspective.  I have played games that feature only straight characters for over thirty years.  I continue to play and enjoy some of those games.  But now there are games that tell stories that I want to see and those games are often more enjoyable for me.

 

Are there games where you can play a gay character from start to finish, and unlike DAO for example, the game is intended to be played as a gay character from its perception?

[Gairnulf]

Nope. Just pointing out that a character's heterosexuality can be used to drive a plot, so why not a character's homosexuality?  Why should a gay character be kept hidden or relegated to subtext?

 

To try to answer your question, I guess because a story with a homosexual main character is more difficult to tell. I guess what makes it more difficult to tell is the risk of it being misinterpreted by a large part of the audience as being a story about homosexuality. In that regard, I really liked the film "The Talanted Mr. Ripley", (haven't read the book), and I think it was an example of a well-told story where the main character was gay.

[daveliam]

Are there games where you can play a gay character from start to finish, and unlike DAO for example, the game is intended to be played as a gay character from its perception?

 

I'm not sure what you are asking here.  Are you asking if there are any games with a predetermined protagonist that is gay?  If so, then no, I don't think so.  There were hints that Lara Croft might be lesbian in the reboot, but that's been debated.  I haven't played it, so I can't say either way.

This is why having gay representation in these games is so important.

 

But.....we're not talking about gay protagonists.  That's something that Bioware always include in their games.  We're talking about a gay supporting character that falls within a particular archetype.

[sandalisthemaker]

Actually, a character's heterosexuality often drives the entire plot, not just a romantic plot.

 

How many games, books, and movies feature a male protag trying to save their wife/girlfriend/ or a princess figure?