7149 réponses à ce sujet

[sandalisthemaker]

Back to the topic on hand... we're basically talking about Blackwall and Cullen for DAI. I think I would have been more upset if Cullen had been the original straight LI and Blackwall had been added later as an additional straight LI... but seeing as how it went the other way, I am a little more understanding, since with Cullen it is previously established that he definitely likes women, and he likes humans AND elves. So making him gay was not possible, and making him bi would have included two more height differences to attend with + bringing in the VAs.

 

What I'm kind of not okay with is then adding Solas as straight female elf only; he's not a KISA, but I think it would been fairer if he had been male elf only instead of female only. I mean, if time and money are the only issues at hand here. (And I would also be advocating for adding a second lesbian LI but it's been stated that Vivienne isn't available for story reasons.)

 

 

I won't lie. I was initially very disappointed when it was revealed that both Blackwall and Solas would only be available to the female PC.  I think the fact that my perception was thrown off due to the way that the reveals went down contributed to my disappointment.  

Since Cullen was revealed to be straight before Blackwall and Solas, I assumed that he was the "main" straight romance and not Blackwall, so I was pretty much expecting Blackwall to be bisexual once Solas was also revealed to be straight. 

 

At any rate, I am okay with the whole thing now.  This hearkens back to the whole making good interesting stories thing, combined with a lack of time/resources.

 

Solas's romance story will be tied to being female PC-centric, and having him so restricted makes him less of a resource burden so to speak.  So at this point, I am no longer crying foul.  I have accepted the gay options that I have in this game, and welcome them.  

[Hellion Rex]

Actually, I can't speak for all genres, but in children's and young adult publishing, books with gay characters are routinely turned away, along with books with characters of color as protagonists, and this is a huge problem in the industry... a good person to follow is Malinda Lo, author if Ash and Huntress (gay Cinderella story). She had an awesome blog post about the number of YA books with gay characters in them awhile back. Then there was another report from a pair of YA authors who were asked by the publisher to change the gender of a gay main character, and they refused, and there was a huge struggle to get the book published. And these were established authors.

 

Also, when polled, young readers, especially queer young readers, desperately want books featuring LGBT main characters, especially books where "being gay" isn't the big issue; they want gay knights and lesbian warriors fighting dragons and so forth.

Funnily enough, OT, but I was reading Rick Riordan's Heroes of Olympus series a few weeks ago, which is like for eighth graders, and I was stunned to see a main character actually come out in the story. Not only did he come out, in the most recent book, he actually got a happy ending and had a great boyfriend to boot!

 

This is a kids/young adult NY Times bestselling series, and I was stunned to see an openly gay character that was not a caricature at all who also got a happy ending. I was in freaking tears when reading it.

[Hellion Rex]

I agree with the Cullen and Blackwall thing.  I really think that Blackwall would have been great, but I totally understand the Cullen thing.  It's one of the things that prompted me to bring up the KISA thing in another thread before this one was here.  It was disappointing to see not only one, but two KISA characters and neither are open for m/m romances. 

 

The Solas thing is disappointing, but I'm willing to wait to see what the reasoning is for his gating.  Because he has a lot of gating (against one gender and three races, more than any other character), so it will be interesting to see what's up with that.

Good God, Solas just...came out of nowhere. That said, I remember how we played hot potato with him so long.

 

Ah, Beard Papa...what could have been.

[CuriousArtemis]

I won't lie. I was initially very disappointed when it was revealed that both Blackwall and Solas would only be available to the female PC.  I think the fact that my perception was thrown off due to the way that the reveals went down contributed to my disappointment. 

 

Dude. Not gonna lie. I cried.   

 

I have come around to acceptance... because it is what it is. Unlike most, I'm not happy with my choices. I would have preferred Cullen, Blackwall, Solas, or even Varric. I struggled for a long time to find other things about the game to be excited about. Now I'm pretty excited about it, nothing approaching what I felt at the beginning of summer, when hope still yet lived lol but I'm excited.

[sandalisthemaker]

I agree we diverged from the subject a lot, like sandalisthemaker also pointed out, but better to establish a common language than work with assumptions about the other side.

 

I believe market works equally for everyone, and the supply will always meet the demand. If there is a demand for gay knights, they will inevitably appear. If some crazy people go on a crusade (pun not intended) against the gay knights, I wouldn't support these people. But it doesn't seem ok to me when people demand from an author to adapt his work in order to fit what they want to experience. In my view he is the author, and he has the message he wants to express, and we are the audience. If someone wants to be an author then let him, but trying to dictate to an author is bad taste.

 

 

 

I'm not demanding. 

 

The BioWare writers will do what they want to do regardless. I fully understand that.  I'm just taking advantage of the fact that there is a suggestion section in these forums now, and simply making a suggestion.

[CuriousArtemis]

Funnily enough, OT, but I was reading Rick Riordan's Heroes of Olympus series a few weeks ago, which is like for eighth graders, and I was stunned to see a main character actually come out in the story. Not only did he come out, in the most recent book, he actually got a happy ending and had a great boyfriend to boot!

 

This is a kids/young adult NY Times bestselling series, and I was stunned to see an openly gay character that was not a caricature at all who also got a happy ending. I was in freaking tears when reading it.

 

Yeah that series I think is classified as middle grade... 9-12 years old. 

 

That is awesome though, I mean, a main character... that's what's so rare in this genre. Gay characters are usually side characters. When they're not, it's usually a "real life" type book, often a coming out story. And those are nice, and very much needed, but young readers want more. 

 

If I think of anymore fantasy kid/YA books with gay characters I'll rec them to you I can't think of too many though. 

[Samahl]

I'll try to use myself as an example. I'm a historian by education. Currently, I feel an extremely strong urge to read fiction based in late 15th century Italy. In this I represent an immensely smaller minority audience than gay audience. I recognize that and I don't feel angry over it. I don't demand from anyone to make a game or a film, or a book that fits my interests. That's the analogy I make.

 

We don't want LGBTQ+ characters because we feel like it, we want them because we want representation. Representation matters, because it helps affirm people's identities, and spreads awareness that we actually do exist, and our stories are as worthy of being told as straight cis people's.

[Semyaza82]

I agree we diverged from the subject a lot, like sandalisthemaker also pointed out, but better to establish a common language than work with assumptions about the other side.

 

I believe market works equally for everyone, and the supply will always meet the demand. If there is a demand for gay knights, they will inevitably appear. If some crazy people go on a crusade (pun not intended) against the gay knights, I wouldn't support these people. But it doesn't seem ok to me when people demand from an author to adapt his work in order to fit what they want to experience. In my view he is the author, and he has the message he wants to express, and we are the audience. If someone wants to be an author then let him, but trying to dictate to an author is bad taste.

 

I'll try to use myself as an example. I'm a historian by education. Currently, I feel an extremely strong urge to read fiction based in late 15th century Italy. In this I represent an immensely smaller minority audience than gay audience. I recognize that and I don't feel angry over it. I don't demand from anyone to make a game or a film, or a book that fits my interests. That's the analogy I make.

   As Sandal says, no one is 'demanding' that anyone add anything, let alone adapt pre-existing material. As for the authority of the author I agree to a point but the simple and self evident fact is that companies like Bioware want feedback from fans of their games. If they didn't we wouldn't all be having this conversation in a section of their forums designed to do exactly that. 

   As for the analogy I don't think it really works. Interest in a very specific historical time period, in a very very specific region isn't analogous to to interest in a character archetype that has existed from the earliest points of Western literature (and quite possibly Eastern, I just don't know much about it so can't say ). And again, no one is demanding Bioware do anything - certainly not make a game explicitly to have a gay KISA in it. Just stating that as part of future games its something we would like to see.

[Hellion Rex]

Confession time: I'm a gay transman who is eagerly hoping to meet a decent guy and become a father. For me, to see a knight or ranger type (Helloooo, Aragorn!) of guy, who just happens to be gay - yet talks about a future - kids, house, pet dragon...I would be elated. 

 

This thread is awesome.

Yesssssssssssss. Gimme dat Aragon, yes please!

[Hellion Rex]

We don't want LGBTQ+ characters because we feel like it, we want them because we want representation. Representation matters, because it helps affirm people's identities, and spreads awareness that we actually do exist, and our stories are as worthy of being told as straight cis people's.

A-friggin-men! Our stories deserve to be told as much anyone else's stories.

[CuriousArtemis]

Yesssssssssssss. Gimme dat Aragon, yes please!

 

You are both wrong. EOMER

[Hellion Rex]

You are both wrong. EOMER

Forgive me, I should have clarified. Aragorn was good, but Eomer is the best, without question.

[Semyaza82]

Forgive me, I should have clarified. Aragorn was good, but Eomer is the best, without question.

I know it's a little messed up, but I'd totally go for Saruman 

[(Disgusted noise.)]

Dude. Not gonna lie. I cried.   

 

I have come around to acceptance... because it is what it is. Unlike most, I'm not happy with my choices. I would have preferred Cullen, Blackwall, Solas, or even Varric. I struggled for a long time to find other things about the game to be excited about. Now I'm pretty excited about it, nothing approaching what I felt at the beginning of summer, when hope still yet lived lol but I'm excited.

That's a shame that things didn't swing your way. Hopefully things will end up working for you once you actually get to play. But It does make me thankful I'm not in the same boat. As much as I would have enjoyed romancing Blackwall or Cullen with a male character (especially if one of them was a third queer male character), if I had been given ability to choose two male characters to romance with just the pre-release info, I probably would have picked Dorian and Bull.

[Hellion Rex]

I know it's a little messed up, but I'd totally go for Saruman 

[Semyaza82]

What can i say, I apparently have some kind of evil wizard fetish

[Hellion Rex]

What can i say, I apparently have some kind of evil wizard fetish

You do you, dear.

[Grieving Natashina]

What can i say, I apparently have some kind of evil wizard fetish

Well, there's worse things.  

 

Edit: I should probably add to the topic itself, since I haven't yet.  While it's more like a DKISA, my first gay character is going to be based upon the idea of KISA, only a little bit more cynical.  My class choice is going to be a human warrior based on this guy:

 

Spoiler

 

 

It's mainly because it's the closest I've ever seen to a gay KISA so far.  I'm all about more good choices in a RPG and I think it would be a great time to evolve that trope some.  There isn't much room for growth in such an old archetype, but I think offering a homosexual version (gay and lesbian) would be a nice change.

 

Plus, as someone that's bisexual, it would be nice to see a LI that is gay or bi that isn't a rogue or a mage for once.  It seems odd in a world like Thedas, where non-heterosexuality is no big deal, we haven't met a gay warrior (that isn't like Branka) yet in the games.

 

_{This will be my second Inquisitor.  My first is a dwarven archer that so far, has yet to meet anyone she likes.}  

[In Exile]

Well, there's worse things.  

 

Edit: I should probably add to the topic itself, since I haven't yet.  While it's more like a DKISA, my first gay character is going to be based upon the idea of KISA, only a little bit more cynical.  My class choice is going to be a human warrior based on this guy:

 

Spoiler

 

 

It's mainly because it's the closest I've ever seen to a gay KISA so far.  I'm all about more good choices in a RPG and I think it would be a great time to evolve that trope some.  There isn't much room for growth in such an old archetype, but I think offering a homosexual version (gay and lesbian) would be a nice change.

 

Plus, as someone that's bisexual, it would be nice to see a LI that is gay or bi that isn't a rogue or a mage for once.  It seems odd in a world like Thedas, where non-heterosexuality is no big deal, we haven't met a gay warrior (that isn't like Branka) yet in the games.

 

_{This will be my second Inquisitor.  My first is a dwarven archer that so far, has yet to meet anyone she likes.}  

It's interesting that you say that, because I realize that every character I've rolled who's done an M/M romance was a warrior or warrior-equivalent. Soldier-Shepard hooked up with Kaiden, WarriorHawke hooked up with Fenris, my 2H Qunquisitor will likely hook up with Dorian... 

 

I never realized I did that until I read your post. I think I know the reason why I do it too. 

[Who Knows]

The "knight" character also tends to be one of the first, if not the first true party member you recruit. So I think it's related to another issue in Bioware games: the mandatory, most important, lead and/or most early party member(s) tend to also be straight, even in games with one or more lesbian/gay/bisexual characters. This isn't something without exceptions, but it's definitely a trend.

[JadePrince]

The "knight" character also tends to be one of the first, if not the first true party member you recruit. So I think it's related to another issue in Bioware games: the mandatory, most important, lead and/or most early party member(s) tend to also be straight, even in games with one or more lesbian/gay/bisexual characters. This isn't something without exceptions, but it's definitely a trend.

This. And it looks like it's continuing that trend of the straight characters being the important/first recruited ones with Cassandra, Varric and Solas looking likely to be our first three companions. Sigh. 

On topic, yes please, gay/bi KISA companion for DA4, please!! Either gender would be awesome, though since I feel most comfy playing m/m, of course I'd love to see a gay/bi male knightly companion. It would just be icing on the cake if he (or she) would end up being a main/important character (aka someone who maybe features in extra content like comics/novels/etc). 

 

Hell, even if he/she wasn't romance-able, I'd STILL like to see a gay/bi KISA character take center stage next game. Where's the gay Varric-esque character who names his weapon after the man he loved, dammit? Where's the lesbian Aveline-like character who we can help hook up with the woman she's crushing on? I want those stories as much as I want awesome gay/lesbian/bi LIs!

[Grieving Natashina]

In celebration of this thread, here is the Rainbow Mountains in China,  This isn't photoshop either, it's in Zhangye Danxia National Geological Park.  There is all sorts of neat pictures of this place.

 

[Tayah]

I won't lie. I was initially very disappointed when it was revealed that both Blackwall and Solas would only be available to the female PC.  I think the fact that my perception was thrown off due to the way that the reveals went down contributed to my disappointment.  

Since Cullen was revealed to be straight before Blackwall and Solas, I assumed that he was the "main" straight romance and not Blackwall, so I was pretty much expecting Blackwall to be bisexual once Solas was also revealed to be straight.  

This is how I felt about Cass and Vivienne and the drawn out way the reveals were done only made it worse because I had hope until the final LI was announced for Viv at least. Cass seems like she would have made a great bi KISA too so I'm still a little disappointed about her especially after the further things we've seen of her... sigh.

 

But yeah I'd like to add my support for a lesbian/gay/bi KISA in a future DA game. 

[sandalisthemaker]

This. And it looks like it's continuing that trend of the straight characters being the important/first recruited ones with Cassandra, Varric and Solas looking likely to be our first three companions. Sigh. 

On topic, yes please, gay/bi KISA companion for DA4, please!! Either gender would be awesome, though since I feel most comfy playing m/m, of course I'd love to see a gay/bi male knightly companion. It would just be icing on the cake if he (or she) would end up being a main/important character (aka someone who maybe features in extra content like comics/novels/etc). 

 

Hell, even if he/she wasn't romance-able, I'd STILL like to see a gay/bi KISA character take center stage next game. Where's the gay Varric-esque character who names his weapon after the man he loved, dammit? Where's the lesbian Aveline-like character who we can help hook up with the woman she's crushing on? I want those stories as much as I want awesome gay/lesbian/bi LIs!

 

Ditto on the plot importance thing.  

 

It's pretty obvious that we'll be getting Cassandra and Varric first, but I didn't know about Solas.  Was that confirmed?  

 

Yes!! A gay or bisexual character who then goes off to be a major player in the franchise on the scale of Alistair or Varric would be welcome. Leliana sort of counts, since she has gone on to be the left hand of the Divine and has made cameos, at least, in DA2 and in Asunder and Masked Empire.  I'd like to see a male character who isn't straight become very plot important too.

[daveliam]

I could argue that Anders, for better or worse, has significant plot importance.  He is a required companion.  You have to recruit him in order to advance the plot.  He's, possibly, the first companion that you can recruit after the Act I introduction.  He can't be killed until the very end of the game and his actions are one of the most important plot points in DA 2.  Realistically, his actions are probably the most important plot point to come out of DA2, with regard to the larger DA lore.  He's unquestionably bisexual, regardless of what people say on the boards.  And he's been connected to both the Warden and Hawke.  We might not all like him or agree with his very polarizing actions, but Anders is incredibly plot important and definitely a non-straight male character.