7143 réponses à ce sujet

[daveliam]

Yeah, I really hope that the poster didn't actually mean that there was no need for straight characters because that's silly.

 

I do agree that there's a giant double standard on these boards when it comes to LGBT characters being scrutinized for "reasons" why they are LGBT but people just accept straight characters for who they are.  I can't begin to explain how tired I am of seeing posts that state that "It doesn't make sense for X to be gay because it just don't make sense for his/her character" or "But X is only in the game to be a token gay character because there's no reason why s/he is gay otherwise".  Stuff like that drives me insane, yet people genuinely believe that it's a valid argument. 

 

On a different note, since DA4 is a long way off, I wonder if we'll get a space KISA in ME:A.  Kaidan was pretty close to the archetype for me, but we didn't get access to his romance until halfway through the last game and, even then, it was only 2/3 of the content that straight women got.  And the f/f romances were really nowhere near KISA status (maybe Samara, but she was a romance light option anyway).  Maybe we can get a KISA type soldier fighting at our side right from the beginning in ME:A?  That'd be a nice surprise.

[sandalisthemaker]

A character doesn't need to justify their heterosexuality any more than a character needs to justify their homosexuality, bisexuality, being trans etc.

 

Straight companions should exist along with those of other sexualties.   I will never complain about the way DA2 handled romances, but I quickly grew to like the way they did it in DA:I.   (I just wish the options were more evenly spread out and I'm sure many others would agree). 

 

Of course, I agree with daveliam about the double standard point about forum "logic", and the language used about it not making sense for a character to be gay or bi.

 

I think the best reason for a writer to give in regards to the sexuality of a companion would be:   "Because that's the way we wanted him/her to be."   

That to me is the best possible reason.  That is showing that they are making the characters they want to make, and not 'because it doesn't fit his/her character.'

 

 

 

Anyways, in regards to Kaidan, I like his M/M romance in ME3.   I thought the lunch scene on the citadel was a bit awkward, but I guess the writers just felt the need to explain why he and Shep never made any moves in ME1.  Their romance scene in the citadel DLC was very nice,  but I've seen that scene with a Shep and Kaidan who are not in a romance, and *that* was awkward.  Lmao

[vbibbi]

A character doesn't need to justify their heterosexuality any more than a character needs to justify their homosexuality, bisexuality, being trans etc.

 

Straight companions should exist along with those of other sexualties.   I will never complain about the way DA2 handled romances, but I quickly grew to like the way they did it in DA:I.   (I just wish the options were more evenly spread out and I'm sure many others would agree). 

 

Of course, I agree with daveliam about the double standard point about forum "logic", and the language used about it not making sense for a character to be gay or bi.

 

I think the best reason for a writer to give in regards to the sexuality of a companion would be:   "Because that's the way we wanted him/her to be."   

That to me is the best possible reason.  That is showing that they are making the characters they want to make, and not 'because it doesn't fit his/her character.'

 

 

 

Anyways, in regards to Kaidan, I like his M/M romance in ME3.   I thought the lunch scene on the citadel was a bit awkward, but I guess the writers just felt the need to explain why he and Shep never made any moves in ME1.  Their romance scene in the citadel DLC was very nice,  but I've seen that scene with a Shep and Kaidan who are not in a romance, and *that* was awkward.  Lmao

 

Kaidan's M/M romance is my all time favorite Bioware romance. I don't even mind having to wait three games for it, once I finally had it.

[daveliam]

Kaidan's M/M romance is my all time favorite Bioware romance. I don't even mind having to wait three games for it, once I finally had it.

 

Agreed.  Kaidan's romance is heads and shoulders above the others in my opinion.  Yeah, we have to wait for him.  And, yeah, it's not the same amount of content as the female/Kaidan romance.  And, yeah, he's yet another bisexual guy who appears straight except for his attraction to the male PC.

 

But all that aside, it was worth the wait.  That citadel scene was everything for me.  Kaidan cooking us the "food of his people" and then relaxing on the couch?  We never get to see two guys just being in a normal, every day relationship.  It was so well done and I think he's going to top (pun intended) my list for years to come.

 

I've done all 8 of the m/m romances across their games.  The only exception is Theron in SWTOR, who, from what I hear, is more of a flirt option than anything else at this point.

 

I'd rank them:

 

1.) Kaidan

2.) Dorian

3.) Steve

4.) Anders

5.) Iron Bull

6.) Sky

7.) Fenris

8.) Zevran

[vbibbi]

Agreed.  Kaidan's romance is heads and shoulders above the others in my opinion.  Yeah, we have to wait for him.  And, yeah, it's not the same amount of content as the female/Kaidan romance.  And, yeah, he's yet another bisexual guy who appears straight except for his attraction to the male PC.

 

But all that aside, it was worth the wait.  That citadel scene was everything for me.  Kaidan cooking us the "food of his people" and then relaxing on the couch?  We never get to see two guys just being in a normal, every day relationship.  It was so well done and I think he's going to top (pun intended) my list for years to come.

 

I've done all 8 of the m/m romances across their games.  The only exception is Theron in SWTOR, who, from what I hear, is more of a flirt option than anything else at this point.

 

I'd rank them:

 

1.) Kaidan

2.) Dorian

3.) Steve

4.) Anders

5.) Iron Bull

6.) Sky

7.) Fenris

8.) Zevran

Critics of Kaidan say he's boring or doesn't have enough quirks, so maybe that's a reason I like him: he's more of a realistic personailty with a mature view of life and I think a relationship with him would be healthy and fulfilling. Most other Bioware romances are therapy sessions, and while that can be interesting to play through, at no point would I ever find it desirable to emulate that relationship in real life.

 

I've not played Steve's romance because I can't find it in me to not romance Kaidan in ME3, and in the few games where Ashley survived, I think I play as fem!Shep. He seems like a good character but I don't like the dead!spouse syndrome of Bioware romances.

 

Same with Sky, he was a cool character, but in some regards he really felt geared toward women and then Bio decided they wanted to allow same sex romances so he wasn't gender gated. The focus of his story was on his deceased wife and child, if I remember, and it felt like they just changed pronouns for his romance dialogue. But it's been a long time since I've played the game so I could be misremembering.

 

Dorian was my first DAI romance and I liked it. He's a fun character with enough of a balance of angst, humor, and maturity. But I didn't feel he matched my Inky as a partner, as I usually play as devout Andrasteans who believe they were chosen (heretically ) and would not jeopardize their Herald status by consorting with a Tevinter. And his ending in Trespasser seems like he's destined to be married to political causes, anyway

 

I have not romanced Bull. I saw clips of the romance and it just wasn't for me. I'm not a huge fan of his character; he seems like a bro who has hidden depths but the depths actually aren't as deep as people want to pretend, and it takes too much headcanon to force his inaction into "he's really spying for the Qun and by saying this one word it proves that he's a mastermind"

 

Anders is my favorite DA2 romance for contributing to the angst and tragedy of the plot. His story is sad, but I also see him as an emotionally manipulative/borderline abusive boyfriend. Hawke is the fun loving guy who has to leave the party early because Anders overheard someone badtalk mages and is now in a snit. Even though Hawke is also a mage and wasn't offended by the comment.

 

I could never get into Fenris because of his relentless, barely controlled rage and harping on magic all the time. Good voice, immersion-breaking appearance, and I did not feel real character development from him in either friendship or rival path. He still seems bitter and angry regardless of his seven years in Kirkwall.

 

I want to like Zevran, but he is another bisexual guy who seems to prefer women and is a m/m option in order to provide an option. His anecdotes sound like he was mentally conditioned into liking men in order to expand his pool of seduction victims. And while he's a funny guy and out of context is enjoyable to be around, it's hard for me to rationalize in game why we're taking a failed assassin into our group, let alone our tent.

 

TL;DR. Kaidan is my favorite for many reasons, mature outlook and grounded personality acting as emotional support to our PC rather than the other way around. While he wasn't opened as an option until the last game, it doesn't feel like he was "turned bi" as some claim, his romance feels authentic and organic.

[dgcatanisiri]

I love Kaidan myself, but I really do feel that they gave him the new-femShep romance and changed the genders, then called it a day in ME3. Especially considering that I am convinced that they used femShep's walk model in the Citadel date, rather than male Shepard's. Like, I would have been okay with just a dialogue from Shepard, a single choice between 'I always wondered...' or 'I never thought' at the lock-in sequence. SOMETHING that gave a distinction between the new femShep and the MShenko paths, since there are these little gestures that are included in a continued romance that aren't in the new romance, and the thing is that not romancing him in ME1 is not because I don't want to, but because the game literally does not allow me to. My love of the relationship ends up being more because of the things I've headcanoned into the relationship than what's there in canon, because I feel almost like it's an afterthought.

 

My ranking of the M/M options goes something like: Kaidan > Fenris > Sky > Steve > Zevran > Bull > Dorian > Anders. Had they implemented their bisexuality, Cullen would probably make his way to the top of the list, while I can't figure out right now if he'd bump Bull or Dorian down a notch.

 

And thinking about it surprised me a little, because I am not comfortable with Bull's romance, I'm asexual, and I'm not comfortably with the bondage in his romance, but I have really had all my interest in Dorian as a romance crushed by the events of Trespasser, where, without discussing it with the Inquisitor, he decides to go back to Tevinter and that the Inquisitor can't come with him. For all that I understand him being so open about the relationship, the PDA around other people, the messenger stones, that these are his way of committing to the relationship, him making this relationship-affecting decision unilaterally would honestly be grounds for a break up in my book. And the Inquisitor just stands there, doesn't get to call him on this? I'm pissed off and I can't express it, so yeah, I'm probably not likely to do his romance again.

 

Zevran and Bull I'm just generally uncomfortable with the sexual element of the romance, but I like the relationship outside of the proverbial bedroom. Dorian manages to get ahead of Anders, who I see as an emotionally abusive boyfriend, that getting worse when he's NOT in a relationship with Hawke (the way he talks about Fenris... If it were possible, I think a lot of my Hawkes would entirely back out of the Dissent quest when he stops to ask about Fenris, how he basically is pulling the Nice Guy routine at that point), but Trespasser made Dorian really unpalatable as a romance for me. ...And I apparently needed to vent a little on the subject, too.

[The Ghost]

Who is Sky by the way? Is he from the last DLC of DAI? 

[dgcatanisiri]

Sky is from Jade Empire, an Xbox Classic game. Really an underrated gem of BioWare's library. Check out its forum down unde the Legacy games.

[AresKeith]

Sky is from Jade Empire, an Xbox Classic game. Really an underrated gem of BioWare's library. Check out its forum down unde the Legacy games.

 

#JadeEmpire2

[Tayah]

You can get Jade Empire on PC too... which is the only reason I was able to play it since I don't own a console and I love it as well. Skye was available to both genders and so was Silk Fox and Dawn Star was a straight girl available to male characters... I think there were only those 3 romance options. It was the first bioware game to have complete romance options for s/s characters too. It was fun and I would love a Jade Empire 2...

[In Exile]

I love Kaidan myself, but I really do feel that they gave him the new-femShep romance and changed the genders, then called it a day in ME3. Especially considering that I am convinced that they used femShep's walk model in the Citadel date, rather than male Shepard's. Like, I would have been okay with just a dialogue from Shepard, a single choice between 'I always wondered...' or 'I never thought' at the lock-in sequence. SOMETHING that gave a distinction between the new femShep and the MShenko paths, since there are these little gestures that are included in a continued romance that aren't in the new romance, and the thing is that not romancing him in ME1 is not because I don't want to, but because the game literally does not allow me to. My love of the relationship ends up being more because of the things I've headcanoned into the relationship than what's there in canon, because I feel almost like it's an afterthought.

 

The thing is, though, the sexual tension with Kaidan was so absurdly thick that while it bothers me (to learn) that the Kaiden romance had extra callbacks, there's something still very satisfying about continuing the relationship from ME1 to ME3. I don't know who came up with that walk up to Kaiden in ME, but as I keep saying, I've seen porn with a less sensual "f*** me" look between characters. And the line Kaiden uses in ME2 ("...like losing an arm")? 

 

 

My ranking of the M/M options goes something like: Kaidan > Fenris > Sky > Steve > Zevran > Bull > Dorian > Anders. Had they implemented their bisexuality, Cullen would probably make his way to the top of the list, while I can't figure out right now if he'd bump Bull or Dorian down a notch.

 

I'm just going to sadface the loss of Cullen. And also mention, for posterity, that I could listen to Gideon Emry read the phonebook. 

[vbibbi]

The thing is, though, the sexual tension with Kaidan was so absurdly thick that while it bothers me (to learn) that the Kaiden romance had extra callbacks, there's something still very satisfying about continuing the relationship from ME1 to ME3. I don't know who came up with that walk up to Kaiden in ME, but as I keep saying, I've seen porn with a less sensual "f*** me" look between characters. And the line Kaiden uses in ME2 ("...like losing an arm")? 

 

 

[Shechinah]

I don't know who came up with that walk up to Kaiden in ME, but as I keep saying, I've seen porn with a less sensual "f*** me" look between characters. And the line Kaiden uses in ME2 ("...like losing an arm")? 

 

Whenever I see the scene where Shepard walks up to Kaidan in Mass Effect, the oh yeah music plays in my head.
 

[daveliam]

Yeah.  I mean, he literally wipes the sweat from his brow as the two of you gaze at each other silently for a moment.  I mean, I've DEFINITELY seen porn that's more subtle than that.  Those two DEFINITELY wanted to ****.  No doubt in my mind.  I still can't get over how many people pull the "He was just suddenly magically attracted to Shep out of nowhere in ME3.  There were no clues that he was into guys until then.....". Yeah, okay then. 

[vbibbi]

The raspy voice doesn't hurt

[daveliam]

Yeah, Rafael Sbarge could read the phone book to me and I think it would make me feels things.......  His voice is awesome.

[Andraste_Reborn]

Some people are really, really bad at subtext. Especially when the subtext is 'this dude is into other dudes'. I think my favourite example is Neon Genesis Evangelion fanboys that insist Shinji is straight.

 

(See also: people insisting that Anders was obviously 100% heterosexual in Awakening, despite some banter with Nathaniel that had me convinced he was the male bi option even before we found out that everyone in DA2 was the bi option.)

[dgcatanisiri]

Oh yeah, people are blinder than bats if you subtext things. Though I imagine that the thing about it with these games is that they pass it off a lot of the time as 'oh well they just don't change the lines even though one gender PC can't romance them.' But still... To jump games here for a minute, I don't understand how male Exile/Atton fic/art isn't more prominent (I have the sad honor of having written the only fic for them currently on Archive of Our Own). I mean, he'll offer warnings about the Handmaiden needing to 'observe proper ettiquette' with the Exile during the sparring sessions, the ones she insists on having with both of them nearly naked?

 

If it calls for same-sex attraction, suddenly the entire heterosexual population is blind and deaf...

[daveliam]

KOTOR 2 was a game that I would have LOVED for there to be s/s options.  Atton was a great character (I'm not usually a fan of the lovable rogue type, but I liked him, particularly because of his sparring with Kreia, who is one of my favorite video game characters of all time).  Although, I liked Disciple much better.  FInally a calm, scholarly male LI and, of course, he's not only straight, but he's also impossible to recruit with male characters.  Boo.

[vbibbi]

KOTOR 2 was a game that I would have LOVED for there to be s/s options.  Atton was a great character (I'm not usually a fan of the lovable rogue type, but I liked him, particularly because of his sparring with Kreia, who is one of my favorite video game characters of all time).  Although, I liked Disciple much better.  FInally a calm, scholarly male LI and, of course, he's not only straight, but he's also impossible to recruit with male characters.  Boo.

Maybe make Atton and Disciple spar for our affections...?

[The Ghost]

Maybe make Atton and Disciple spar for our affections...?

 

I would definitely love something like that to be included in the future games, two romance options, flirting with both of them and at the end they find out, but instead getting angry at the protagonist, they decide to deal with it by a duel.  

[eyezonlyii]

Hey everyone! Back after a long hiatus and I'm sorry if anyone was worried, I just had to clear my soul after this summer. And for the most part it worked. Anyway. Just reading the last couple of pages here and as usual, still loving the discussion. 

[sandalisthemaker]

Hey everyone! Back after a long hiatus and I'm sorry if anyone was worried, I just had to clear my soul after this summer. And for the most part it worked. Anyway. Just reading the last couple of pages here and as usual, still loving the discussion. 

 

Welcome back, dear. 

[Semyaza82]

KOTOR 2 was a game that I would have LOVED for there to be s/s options.  Atton was a great character (I'm not usually a fan of the lovable rogue type, but I liked him, particularly because of his sparring with Kreia, who is one of my favorite video game characters of all time).  Although, I liked Disciple much better.  FInally a calm, scholarly male LI and, of course, he's not only straight, but he's also impossible to recruit with male characters.  Boo.

Would have loved those options as well. And completely with you on Kriea, easily one of my all time favourite characters from a game. Visa Marr and GO-TO were awesome as well... Damn, now i want to replay KOTOR2.

[hedop85]

Honestly? Why on earth do we need several types of characters with several sexualities? If you keep that up you would need half an army as your followers.

 

So let's see what you had this time around:

 

- Josephine who is bisexual and basically goes for anything that walks on two legs

- Dorian who was gay and goes for anything on two legs and with a ****

- Iron Bull who goes for anyone and anything on two legs and therefore is pansexual

- Sera who is lesbian

- Cullen who is straight but only goes for humans/elves

- Blackwall who is straight and goes for anything on two legs

- and Cassandra who is straight and goes for anything that moves.

 

So according to some here we would need:

 

- a roguish lesbian character

- a roguish gay character

- a roguish pansexual character

- a nice lesbian character

- a nice gay character

- a nice pansexual character

- a roguish straight character who goes for males

- a roguish straight character who goes for females

- a nice straight character who goes for males

- a nice straight character who goes for females

- a roguish lesbian character who only goes for specific races

- a roguish gay character who only for specific races

- a nice lesbian character who only goes for specific races

- a nice gay character who only goes for specific races

- a roguish pansexual character who only goes for specific races (god forbid that we somehow give the impression that pansexual people just bone anything that moves)

- a nice pansexual character who only goes for specific races

- a roguish straight character who only goes for specific races (male)

- a roguish straight character who only goes for specific races (female)

- a nice straight character who only goes for specific races (male)

- a nice straight character who only goes for specific races (female)

- a nice transsexual character who is into males

- a roguish transsexual character who is into males

- a nice transsexual character who is into females

- a roguish transsexual character who is into females

- a nice transsexual character who because of his new sex is now homosexual

- a nice transsexual character who because of her new sex is now homosexual

- a roguish transsexual character who because of his new sex is now homosexual

- a roguish transsexual character who because of her new sex is now homosexual

- a male transsexual who is nice and pansexual

- a female transsexual who is nice and pansexual

- a male transsexual who is roguish and pansexual

- a female transsexual who is roguish and pansexual

- a nice transsexual character who is into males but only of certain races

- a nice transsexual character who is into females but only of certain races

- a roguish transsexual character who is into males but only of certain races

- a roguish transsexual character who is into females but only of certain races

- a nice transsexual character who because of his new sex is now homosexual but only interested in certain races

- a nice transsexual character who because of her new sex is now homosexual but only interested in certain races

- a roguish transsexual character who because of his new sex is now homosexual but only interested in certain races

- a roguish transsexual character who because of her new sex is now homosexual but only interested in certain races

- an a-sexual male rogue who wants to have a platonic relationship with other females

- an a-sexual male rogue who wants to have a platonic relationship with other males

- an a-sexual male rogue who wants to have a platonic relationship no matter their gender or sex

- an a-sexual female rogue who wants to have a platonic relationship with other females

- an a-sexual female rogue who wants to have a platonic relationship with other males

- an a-sexual female rogue who wants to have a platonic relationship no matter their gender or sex

- an a-sexual female nice person who wants to have a platonic relationship with other females

- an a-sexual female nice person who wants to have a platonic relationship with other males

- an a-sexual female nice person who wants to have a platonic relationship no matter their gender or sex

- an a-sexual male nice person who wants to have a platonic relationship with other males

- an a-sexual male nice person who wants to have a platonic relationship with other females

- an a-sexual male nice person who wants to have a platonic relationship no matter their gender or sex

- an a-sexual female nice person who wants to have a platonic relationship with other males of certain races

- an a-sexual female nice person who wants to have a platonic relationship with other females of certain races

- an a-sexual female nice person who wants to have a platonic relationship with other people of certain races no matter their sex or gender

- an a-sexual female rogue who wants to have a platonic relationship with other males of certain races

- an a-sexual female rogue who wants to have a platonic relationship with other females of certain races

- an a-sexual female rogue who wants to have a platonic relationship with people no matter their gender or sex of certain races

- an a-sexual male nice person who wants to have a platonic relationship with other males of certain races

- an a-sexual male nice person who wants to have a platonic relationship with other females of certain races

- an a-sexual male nice person who wants to have a platonic relationship with certain races no matter their gender or sex

- an a-sexual male rogue who wants to have a platonic relationship with other males of certain races

- an a-sexual male rogue who wants to have a platonic relationship with other females of certain races

- an a-sexual male rogue who wants to have a platonic relationship with certain races no matter their gender or sex

 

Does that about cover it? So that would mean we need a party of 64 people... yeah i think that should do the trick. If we got that can we finally get back to actually having meaningful stories and decisions instead of focusing on how to represent every sex, gender, gender identity, sexuality and what not in the game and then messing up in representing the sex scenes? That would be awesome.