Honestly it seems to me the idea of a female warrior generally is kind of underserved, typically they are mages or in other instances paladins but often not full on kind of hard charging warriors.
Preston Garvey is pretty knightly. He does send you on a mission to help people, but only because he's staying to guard another group.
Oh it's well explained, I'm just complaining about the way things revolve around the player character because I'm difficult.
@Dave
You're right, as usual. I'm so conflicted! I met him. Cute, but dogmatic, and it isn't even that, it's that brotherhood judgmental thing.
"So you're a mercenary? Typical."
Yes, Paladin stuffy pants. I just swept in and massacred all these ferals for free, sorry I don't also feel like being free labor. I know the brotherhood is sustained on their pure righteous fervor, but the rest of us have to buy clean water and build our settlement a radio tower.
And then they make the other one with him extra aggressive and insulting. Friggin' brotherhood.
I know I'm probably letting it annoy me way more than it should, but I'd forgotten how much Bethesda protagonists seem to inspire hostility in "non hostile" characters, no matter how they act. 
That's when you just shush him and tell him to keep looking pretty
Actually, if there had been an better option to quip back at him when he got me rolling my eyes, I would have been pretty happy. It could be fun to play the Catwoman to another character's stoic Batman-esque persona.
I'm totally banging Danse and we are currently having some very nice Paladin sex.
Actually, if there had been an better option to quip back at him when he got me rolling my eyes, I would have been pretty happy. It could be fun to play the Catwoman to another character's stoic Batman-esque persona.
I like this as a general rule. If characters are trying to passively judge you then it makes sense to have options to push back or wind them up.
Lamentably I've noticed the sarcastic dialogue option is rarely funny or sarcastic.
I've still got reservations about Fallout 4. Primarily because it feels more natural for it to be played like an FPS than a third-person RPG (even though it does have that option, the controls seem kinda clunky to be played as such). And I don't do FPSes.
While I like the look and style, from what I've seen of some let's plays so far, the companions aren't clicking with me yet. I don't know, maybe it's all the dialogue and that's all that I've seen so far concerning characters. I've only seen so much, and I'm only going by what's been put out there as of typing this post. Preston Garvey still remains as the standout for me, though.
Although, speaking of other games with knights, apparently Tales of Zestiria has a "canon" gay male protagonist with a "canon" love interest. "Canon" being used very, very lightly. Actually, it's probably more of a case of "single-target sexuality". The developers were saying something about Sorey and not seeing a relationship with any of the female characters, but rather with his closest, lifelong friend, Mikleo. And the game is peppered with hints of something between them, and their disinterest in women. There was one scene where one of the characters eggs Sorey on to spy on the girls while they're in the sauna, yet he seems more focused on Mikleo instead. There isn't anything overt, but there isn't anything overtly romantic in Tales of games anyway, and Mikleo essentially takes the part of the usual role for heroines from the previous titles. I'm not usually into JRPGs, and the storyline itself is kinda shakey, but hey, I've become Sorey/Mikleo trash.
I'm totally banging Danse and we are currently having some very nice Paladin sex.
Pics or it didn't happen.
@Artifice
Well, to be fair, that's always the potential downside to a KISA type, right? Their dogmatic fervor can be off-putting. So far, I've yet to initiate the romance with Danse but I've been getting to know him better as he approves of my actions and it's going pretty much exactly how I'd like it to go. He's opening up, but cautiously, and then gets a little embarrassed and asks me to tell anyone about his personal conversations. <swoon>. I'm feeling him. Granted, it's a bit early in the game for me to make a final call, but so far, he's not too bad. He even apologized for being so aggressively BoS when we first met and said it was unfair to put me in that position. Sweet guy. Now take off that damned power armor! 
@Artifice
Well, to be fair, that's always the potential downside to a KISA type, right? Their dogmatic fervor can be off-putting. So far, I've yet to initiate the romance with Danse but I've been getting to know him better as he approves of my actions and it's going pretty much exactly how I'd like it to go. He's opening up, but cautiously, and then gets a little embarrassed and asks me to tell anyone about his personal conversations. <swoon>. I'm feeling him. Granted, it's a bit early in the game for me to make a final call, but so far, he's not too bad. He even apologized for being so aggressively BoS when we first met and said it was unfair to put me in that position. Sweet guy. Now take off that damned power armor!
Sounds delightful, actually.
I was more irritated at his injured friend, really. I mean, sure I'm the "hired help" but who taught him that it's okay to be rude to the servants because he can? Classist jerk. In fairness, though, he was injured and they did counterbalance that by making the other one good humored. I really do know better than to expect friendly people in the post apocalyptic hellscape.
I banged Piper before I met Danse. Now I kind of regret it. But he's kinda buggy. He gets aggro'd by mole rats that are like five streets away interrupting conversations. Piper just refuses to wear different armour and use other weapons other than molotovs which she likes to aim at me.
I like Piper. She's one of the few people in any Fallout game I've played who just helped the protagonist, just because.
You know, especially how she disapproves every time I try and charisma my way out of a situation even though that's her perk.
I do really love Piper though. She's lovely. I just love complaining about her more.
Well, that's just confusing of her.
I think this potentially circles back to something more on topic. This thread has touched more than once on what we might like a future KISA companion to approve of in general. I don't know if I mentioned before, but I think my biggest concern would be one who disapproves of using guile as a tactic, because of a dedication to honesty. I can appreciate a character who only uses honest dealing themselves, but it would be a bummer if their doling out a bunch of disapproval to a protagonist who does things differently.
I've still got reservations about Fallout 4. Primarily because it feels more natural for it to be played like an FPS than a third-person RPG (even though it does have that option, the controls seem kinda clunky to be played as such). And I don't do FPSes.
While I like the look and style, from what I've seen of some let's plays so far, the companions aren't clicking with me yet. I don't know, maybe it's all the dialogue and that's all that I've seen so far concerning characters. I've only seen so much, and I'm only going by what's been put out there as of typing this post. Preston Garvey still remains as the standout for me, though.
Although, speaking of other games with knights, apparently Tales of Zestiria has a "canon" gay male protagonist with a "canon" love interest. "Canon" being used very, very lightly. Actually, it's probably more of a case of "single-target sexuality". The developers were saying something about Sorey and not seeing a relationship with any of the female characters, but rather with his closest, lifelong friend, Mikleo. And the game is peppered with hints of something between them, and their disinterest in women. There was one scene where one of the characters eggs Sorey on to spy on the girls while they're in the sauna, yet he seems more focused on Mikleo instead. There isn't anything overt, but there isn't anything overtly romantic in Tales of games anyway, and Mikleo essentially takes the part of the usual role for heroines from the previous titles. I'm not usually into JRPGs, and the storyline itself is kinda shakey, but hey, I've become Sorey/Mikleo trash.
Spoiler
Tales as a whole is full of kind of sort of different characters that aren't really wholly over the top KISA or like passively gray either, and that's been true since really the very first Tales, Tales of Destiny.
Speaking of circling back to something back on another topic. This thread has touched more than once upon whether a person's outright statement of "I'm a gay KISA, and this is my story," is necessary to include characters who probably characterize would fit the generic profile but minus the express "label," or otherwise reserve their stance or position from placement in that particular paradigm of categorization.
There really isn't anything barring a character who simply kind of fits the generic description from seemingly being also that basic type of person, otherwise it would bar someone like Milla Maxwell who is pretty gay KISA-y because there isn't some kind of official canonical presence and basically not all that different from other Tales protagonists.
Ultimately restricting these analyses to offical canonical or otherwise explicit statements from developers is a bad idea, won't necessarily attempt to persist in this particular thread if people insist on it, but it is most definitely not a good way to go about it.
The reason is, I say, because most Tales protagonists are in the vein of Milla Maxwell and Mikleo, could very easily put in Zelos and Sheena, etc, as well in all these discussions.
Ultimately restricting these analyses to offical canonical or otherwise explicit statements from developers is a bad idea, won't necessarily attempt to persist in this particular thread if people insist on it, but it is most definitely not a good way to go about it.
I think that video games in general need more characters that are explicitly gay and lesbian (and bi and pan and trans etc.) Nothing wrong with characters whose sexuality and/or gender identity is never explicitly defined, mind you, but with so little obvious representation in the medium, I think a few neon signs saying 'BY THE WAY I AM A GAY KISA' are actually warranted.
Of course, since this thread is about a hypothetical BioWare love interest, finding out about their sexuality wouldn't actually be a problem. We can't romance them if we don't find out who they're into!
I think that video games in general need more characters that are explicitly gay and lesbian (and bi and pan and trans etc.) Nothing wrong with characters whose sexuality and/or gender identity is never explicitly defined, mind you, but with so little obvious representation in the medium, I think a few neon signs saying 'BY THE WAY I AM A GAY KISA' are actually warranted.
Of course, since this thread is about a hypothetical BioWare love interest, finding out about their sexuality wouldn't actually be a problem. We can't romance them if we don't find out who they're into!
Sorry to be blunt but that's just not a good idea, people who pretty much fulfill all the characteristics of something but aren't bothered to play the label game shouldn't be not counted.
Like I was saying, Milla Maxwell is basically the same as the typical Tales, it's really disserving those people by saying it's so "little obvious representation," it's basically saying she doesn't count unless you agree to do things or represent or exact habits within this very precise paradigm.
That course is fated for failure, it just is ultimately.
You can't have romance anyway if you know everything about everyone or try and compress everything into neat rows and columns, that's not really romance, that's actuarial accounting.
Sorry to be blunt but that's just not a good idea, people who pretty much fulfill all the characteristics of something but aren't bothered to play the label game shouldn't be not counted.
I don't think it's about playing the label game, really. I'd say any character that expresses romantic and/or sexual attraction to people of the same gender counts, regardless of whether they label themselves at all. It's not like 'gay' and ' bisexual' are words that exist in Thedas. (I've never played a Tales game and have no idea how sexuality works in that setting.)
However, if a character doesn't express any kind of sexual/romancing attraction to people of the same gender AND doesn't say 'I am gay/bisexual/pan/whatever', I'm not counting them among the ranks of gay (bi/pan/whatever) KISAs.
However, if a character doesn't express any kind of sexual/romancing attraction to people of the same gender AND doesn't say 'I am gay/bisexual/pan/whatever', I'm not counting them among the ranks of gay (bi/pan/whatever) KISAs.
The problem here is you are then excluding all the unique and different characters who pretty much mirror these I guess we could call them explicit gay KISA characters.
Milla doesn't ever express interest in the same sex or so on and so forth, but personality wise as I've now said maybe a few times she's really not all that different from Mielko (although Mielko is more of the inward type where as Milla is more outward) in many respects.
I guess we could go around this more, but the reality is it's probably not going to change this position because again the chief problem is it's exclusionary for reasons that don't seem to make sense to me. Whether a person expressly expresses their sexual/romancing of the same gender or expressly explicitly says they tend to sexual express themselves with the same gender seems to pale in comparison to just the simple fact of whether they express or would likely theoretically express (since these are just fictional media after all) their sexual interests with the same gender, visual/auditory evidence and canonical labeling aside.
From a simple game perspective moreover, just since Zestiria was brought up like Xillia just really impressed me as a game, first and foremost, interesting characters, gameplay, Tales as a whole has been kinda resurgent actually it seems to me.
Moreover, it's also not as though the game never references sex or sexual behavior either, for example there was a banter revolving around bondage actually, can't remember all the details.
I guess it just seems like there is some kind of Zapruder like tendency to overanalyze every offhand expression and try and compress it into some kind of greater sexual categorizatino thingy, and I'm not 100% sure but think even some Bioware developers are on record as saying that it's kind of annoying.
I mean look, we can obviously agree that someone who never or would likely never express an interest in the same gender or any kind of gay KISA-y under any circumstances doesn't qualify right? Whether there is like I say auditory/visual or canonical confirmation of someone who does express or theoretically would express is pretty irrelevant.
I guess we could go around this more, but the reality is it's probably not going to change this position because again the chief problem is it's exclusionary for reasons that don't seem to make sense to me.
I'm afraid I don't understand your argument, either. It might help if you had an example of what you mean from a source I'm familiar with - as I said, I've never played a Tales game and have no idea who any of those characters are.
I just don't understand how any character who expresses no same-sex attraction at all could be classified as a gay (etc.) KISA. A sexually ambiguous KISA, maybe, if they don't outright say that they're straight.
I'm afraid I don't understand your argument, either. It might help if you had an example of what you mean from a source I'm familiar with - as I said, I've never played a Tales game and have no idea who any of those characters are.
I just don't understand how any character who expresses no same-sex attraction at all could be classified as a gay (etc.) KISA. A sexually ambiguous KISA, maybe, if they don't outright say that they're straight.
I don't understand how any gay inclined character could never do anything other than express same-sex attraction at all times during their life, maybe it's just capturing a moment in their life, the game/media presentation/whatever, that just so happened to mix the same sex part.
Besides, that's not quite I said, I didn't say "express no same-sex attraction" I said would or theoretically likely would, as differentiated from wouldn't or theoretically would never.
It might help if you familiarized yourself with the examples I've given you, rather than put it on me to find yet more examples with which you are familiar.
Oh what the hay I'm not really feeling so frosty right this second, been playing some SWTOR and Satele Shan is kind of a gay KISA from my point of view, does not have any gay expression with another female or randomly hits on though suddenly in the middle of it all but she is neither excessively righteous or aggressive, sort of like a gray/hard contrast/combination thing.
Would you really just say Satele, with all her quirks or astereotypical behavior by comparison to some normally ascribed person, is really just another person like everyone else sexually because we don't have graphic evidence of what is likely to be true?
For reference
Have to say as far as heroism goes the light side of SWTOR is pretty solid, kind of shows that Bioware does best which are these kind of much more calm and realistic sort of heros as compared to the pile it up and explode (and often rage against you) sort of types you see in other media.
In contrast, would not Master Orgus in there who is kind of like somewhere between a stereotypical KISA and... uh... something. I'm not saying throw anyone and everyone into the pot either, just analyze it based on what we kind of feel to be true.
I don't understand how any gay inclined character could never do anything other than express same-sex attraction at all times during their life, maybe it's just capturing a moment in their life, the game/media presentation/whatever, that just so happened to mix the same sex part.
Besides, that's not quite I said, I didn't say "express no same-sex attraction" I said would or theoretically likely would, as differentiated from wouldn't or theoretically would never.
It might help if you familiarized yourself with the examples I've given you, rather than put it on me to find yet more examples with which you are familiar.
Not even remotely what Andraste was saying.
Not even remotely what Andraste was saying.
Indeed, that's what I said, not what Andraste said, however using Andraste's structure to create a kind of close paralell, but not to identify the source.
I also did it in the second sentence by the way.
You like Dragon's Dogma right? Well lets take Mercedes from DD as well!
Once again sort of pragmatic KISA.
Heck lets just take Meredith pre-Idol I mean why not!
In her case, she is certainly sort of pragmatic and gray, more on the pragmatic and gray aside compared to Shan but you can sense very faint traces of like that a take no prisoners attitude as well.
See what I mean? The limitations on "person needs to kiss X, tell X they think they're cute," as pertains to sexual activities are severely limiting and warping the understandings of people and relationships with those sexual acts such that people are tossed about and end up in the exact opposite place you would expect to find them.
By the way this is an inverse sword, you can see that right? Look at a person who identifies as mostly pretty much just not anything, maybe just has sex mostly with their male partner as a female, but then there is the one time, the one time almost as joke they go "Hey I think this other girls cute and I'm going to tell her that and kiss her,"
This is inverting the people who play at one thing with the people that actually are by setting a flimsy trigger to go between the two.
Are we going to call a porn star that kissed girls twice for the money and says it as part of a scene that she was paid to do and who normally isn't gay at all and puts a toy knight porn star prop hat on her head in a brothel in ME or DA and calls herself a knight a gay KISA? No! Of course not.
And yes I edited my comment a lot but Dragon's Dogma is kind of cool and so logically must be the players.
The problem here is you are then excluding all the unique and different characters who pretty much mirror these I guess we could call them explicit gay KISA characters.
As far as I can tell the problem is that you're flagging anyone you see as exhibiting generally atypical behavior as also likely to exhibit what I guess you consider atypical sexual behavior. Which is really, just flat our wrong.
@Asellus
I'm sorry but I'm genuinely not understanding what you are writing about. How is Satele Shan a gay KISA? She demonstrates zero s/s attraction and had a sordid affair with a major male character that resulted in a child. I mean, she technically could be bisexual, but we have zero evidence of that in any way. What would make her "kind of a gay KISA"? Your explanation doesn't actually give any reasons to support this statement.
Kefka at it again?
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