7143 réponses à ce sujet

[London]

Well, back to the topic at hand - I wouldn't want someone like Danse to be the archetype for our next KISA romance.

While he has some good qualities (he's attractive, serious, dedicated to his cause) I find his rudeness to others off putting. I don't think it's socially awkward or cute - it's just rude.

Danse comes across as someone who is used to being in charge and who doesn't really have to answer to anyone but The Elder. He spends a great deal believing he teaches you lessons that you have to follow and the relationship feels like it boils down to whether you do what he wants you to do or he moves on.

I think human compatibility is more complicated than this. I haven't seen any situation where Danse changes his own personality for the Sole Survivor but I have seen him lecture the Sole Survivor to behave a certain way. It feels like he would just make a very domineering partner.

[Battlebloodmage]

You forget how technology actually went to a standstill save the Institute's synths (oh yeah and their teleportation) in the fallout universe?

 

No one's fate is shown in the ending slides save your PC's. Not sure why you're even trying to bring that up. When actually playing the game Lorenzo is clearly free and exchanging serum to your character at his leisure.

 

I just think it's hilariously hypocritical for you to get on MacCready's case when your immortality plan is one of the selfish and destructive choices in the game.

lol, seriously, are you still going on about this? You really think that much about what I think happen or something? I think it's more hilarious you can't drop it just because I don't think MacCready to be a good guy. I never said sparing him is entirely good. If you think my choice end up dooming the world then I guess good for you. I don't see it happening, but you could think how my game would happen for me. 

 

I bring it up because you try to say the game already show a canon for what happen when it's not. That's the freaking point, they don't show it because it's up to the player. What are you trying to accomplish her? Establish a nonexistent game canon? There is no ending slide for anyone, so what happens is either up to the player's interpretation or somehow establish in future games. I still don't get what you're trying to prove here. What are you trying to do by keep talking about it? Just let it go, man.

[Ryzaki]

Well, back to the topic at hand - I wouldn't want someone like Danse to be the archetype for our next KISA romance.

While he has some good qualities (he's attractive, serious, dedicated to his cause) I find his rudeness to others off putting. I don't think it's socially awkward or cute - it's just rude.

Danse comes across as someone who is used to being in charge and who doesn't really have to answer to anyone but The Elder. He spends a great deal believing he teaches you lessons that you have to follow and the relationship feels like it boils down to whether you do what he wants you to do or he moves on.

I think human compatibility is more complicated than this. I haven't seen any situation where Danse changes his own personality for the Sole Survivor but I have seen him lecture the Sole Survivor to behave a certain way. It feels like he would just make a very domineering partner.

 

Do you have any examples of fictional characters you'd prefer?

 

I think that's just an extension of the paternalism, patronizing, superior attitude you get from the brotherhood as a whole. Danse just embodies it.

 

To be fair to Danse most of the Fallout romances play that way but yeah. (Worst part is there's flashing opportunities for Danse to change to grow and he just...nope.) So close yet so far.

 

lol, seriously, are you still going on about this? You really think that much about what I think happen or something? I think it's more hilarious you can't drop it just because I don't think MacCready to be a good guy. I never said sparing him is entirely good. If you think my choice end up dooming the world then I guess good for you. I don't see it happening, but you could think how my game would happen for me. 

 

I bring it up because you try to say the game already show a canon for what happen when it's not. That's the freaking point, they don't show it because it's up to the player. What are you trying to accomplish her? Establish a nonexistent game canon? There is no ending slide for anyone, so what happens is either up to the player's interpretation or somehow establish in future games. I still don't get what you're trying to prove here. What are you trying to do by keep talking about it?

 

Nah I just think it's kind of confusing someone can have such a refusal to have their character be the wee bit flawed as to admit they'd make such a horrible choice and be okay with it meanwhile being very judgmental about other characters. It's very strange to me.

 

It does though. You keep ignoring it doesn't make that change. Lorenzo is free, he holds all the cards. That's how that quest ends it is shown. But I'm gonna drop it because you seem to refuse to see how the quest ends and the actual moral dilemma of the quest in the first place is kind of sad.

[Battlebloodmage]

Well, back to the topic at hand - I wouldn't want someone like Danse to be the archetype for our next KISA romance.

While he has some good qualities (he's attractive, serious, dedicated to his cause) I find his rudeness to others off putting. I don't think it's socially awkward or cute - it's just rude.

Danse comes across as someone who is used to being in charge and who doesn't really have to answer to anyone but The Elder. He spends a great deal believing he teaches you lessons that you have to follow and the relationship feels like it boils down to whether you do what he wants you to do or he moves on.

I think human compatibility is more complicated than this. I haven't seen any situation where Danse changes his own personality for the Sole Survivor but I have seen him lecture the Sole Survivor to behave a certain way. It feels like he would just make a very domineering partner.

I think it's just that the people you hang out with are mostly ghouls, mutants, and synths. You can't expect for him to be pleasant to them all. You can't change anyone's personality. All of the companions have a degree of lecturing you until they can't take it anymore and leave. The characters in the game can be a bit one dimensional in their core values. It's like with Cait, even though she's cured of addiction, she still hates any generous acts and gets angry and makes snide comments whenever you do it. MacCready also does the same when you do charitable stuffs for free. Strong is basically everywhere. I think the purpose is to have a variety of companions you can take everywhere and always have someone that fit your agenda. 

[London]

I thought Kaidan was a great Romance and possibly my favorite in gaming. He shows a lot of concern for your character and you can tell how deeply he cares. Cullen is a nice BioWare example also.

Most video game characters aren't very well fleshed out, but someone like Chris Redfield from Resident Evil,could work if personal relationships were better written. He's very protective of his family, partners, and subordinates and also very dedicated to his job.

If you ever watched the show Torchwood, there was an episode in Season 1 that did a good job of doing a same-sex romance with a character who was a Captain in the military. The Captain (rather than the shows more theatrical main character) would be a good option.

I think my issue with Danse is not only is he rude, but I really don't fully see eye to eye with his extremist beliefs. If he was more willing to question things and think for himself, and look at people for being more than what you see at face value, he may have been a more interesting option to me.

[Battlebloodmage]

Do you have any examples of fictional characters you'd prefer?

 

I think that's just an extension of the paternalism, patronizing, superior attitude you get from the brotherhood as a whole. Danse just embodies it.

 

To be fair to Danse most of the Fallout romances play that way but yeah. (Worst part is there's flashing opportunities for Danse to change to grow and he just...nope.) So close yet so far.

 

 

Nah I just think it's kind of confusing someone can have such a refusal to have their character be the wee bit flawed as to admit they'd make such a horrible choice and be okay with it meanwhile being very judgmental about other characters. It's very strange to me.

 

It does though. You keep ignoring it doesn't make that change. Lorenzo is free, he holds all the cards. That's how that quest ends it is shown. But I'm gonna drop it because you seem to refuse to see how the quest ends and the actual moral dilemma of the quest in the first place is kind of sad.

Yeah, if you think once the game ends there then it's ended there. That's good for you. That's your game state, good for you. I'm not ignoring it because I believe that's how I would do in my game state after. If you don't think that could happen because they don't make the game more linear then good for you. It has nothing to do with me. I care more about my game state than what the game given. 

 

I acknowledge what MacCready is and what Danse is. None of the characters are perfect. It's a freaking game, discussing how the characters are is the point. It's just stupid when people say judging when that's the point of talking about it in discussion and forum. It's not personal to talk about the traits of the characters. I would never go so far as to associate what someone discuss about the characters and turn it personal about how they play their game. What's worse is you're judging actual people for their decision over a game, and it's actually rude and disrespectful rather than non-existent video games characters. 

[London]

I think what you wrote above is just a weakness in Bethesda games. Fallout has come a long way but leaves a lot to be desired. And the characters are unflinching in who they are and not open to compromise.

I also wish you could maturely break up with someone without having to act like an ass until they get annoyed with you and break up with you. I mean if I wanted to break up with Piper, I wish I could just talk to her rather than start stealing a lot until she breaks it off. Since my PC is a good guy, I think it would be impossible for him to break up with Piper. because he wouldn't do enough to get on her nerves. That and I pick every lock I see so this would just negate anything I did.

[Battlebloodmage]

I thought Kaidan was a great Romance and possibly my favorite in gaming. He shows a lot of concern for your character and you can tell how deeply he cares. Cullen is a nice BioWare example also.

Most video game characters aren't very well fleshed out, but someone like Chris Redfield from Resident Evil,could work if personal relationships were better written. He's very protective of his family, partners, and subordinates and also very dedicated to his job.

If you ever watched the show Torchwood, there was an episode in Season 1 that did a good job of doing a same-sex romance with a character who was a Captain in the military. The Captain (rather than the shows more theatrical main character) would be a good option.

I think my issue with Danse is not only is he rude, but I really don't fully see eye to eye with his extremist beliefs. If he was more willing to question things abs think for himself, and look at people for being more than what you see at face value, he may have been a more interesting option to me.

Yeah, that is one of the downfalls for the Fallout 4 characters. They are a bit one dimensional. You can't change their mind. Danse himself is rude to people because you often get the impression because most of the people you hang out with are non-humans. He's not exactly rude to Garvey, Codsworth, Cait, or Dogmeat. Even with Piper, he's just a little patronized because she's a civilian without any training. Danse himself doesn't hate all ghouls or want to exterminate them. He would want you to protect the ghoul kid in the fridge, even acknowledge how dangerous it is to bring him along to find his parents but like that you do it. He also dislikes if you sell the ghoul kids, and disapprove of what the Covenant does with the synth experiment. 

[Ryzaki]

I think what you wrote above is just a weakness in Bethesda games. Fallout has come a long way but leaves a lot to be desired. And the characters are unflinching in who they are and not open to compromise.

I also wish you could maturely break up with someone without having to act like an ass until they get annoyed with you and break up with you. I mean if I wanted to break up with Piper, I wish I could just talk to her rather than start stealing a lot until she breaks it off. Since my PC is a good guy, I think it would be impossible for him to break up with Piper. because he wouldn't do enough to get on her nerves. That and I pick every lock I see so this would just negate anything I did.

 

Yeah but that oddly makes them feel fine to me. I know plenty stuck in their ways. (That said Danse bothered me because he had a perfect reason to change but he doesn't and I'm just "u wut m8." also his romance takes on a squicky tone if you stay with the Brotherhood. It's a wee bit alleviated with the Minutemen thankfully tho).

 

And if you get their approval back up you have to take them back =/ I wanted to break up that way and move on to someone else but as soon as their approval got back up I was locked back into the romance (They pretty much give you 4 different ways of saying "Yeah I'll take you back." when the approval gets back up. My sorrow when that happened was severe).

 

I had my character start drugging up in sorrow because it was their spouses birthday (least in my headcanon anyway). That was enough for me to get dumped. But sadly as soon as I raised the approval back up via minutemen quests I got locked back into the romance. Not enough Nooooooo in the world.

[Battlebloodmage]

I think what you wrote above is just a weakness in Bethesda games. Fallout has come a long way but leaves a lot to be desired. And the characters are unflinching in who they are and not open to compromise.

I also wish you could maturely break up with someone without having to act like an ass until they get annoyed with you and break up with you. I mean if I wanted to break up with Piper, I wish I could just talk to her rather than start stealing a lot until she breaks it off. Since my PC is a good guy, I think it would be impossible for him to break up with Piper. because he wouldn't do enough to get on her nerves. That and I pick every lock I see so this would just negate anything I did.

She also dislike it if you pick locks of an owned house, accepting money for people needing help, and generally lying, even when it's necessary. Maybe you could work something in there. Yeah, I wish they could have added it in there. If you are on PC, you could also reduce your affection and just roleplay it as the magic is gone. The game needs more interactions. I wish they added something like the LI gets annoyed and says something if you flirt instead of just give a hate disapproval. This is why I don't think it's really a polygamy when there's no acknowledgement for it.

[London]

Well, in some way I can see Danse disapprove of running around with Piper because in reality it doesn't seem like a great idea for a civilian to be dodging mini nukes and avoiding feral ghouls and raiders.

Sometimes even I question travelling with Piper due to all the danger I put her in. And she has a baby sister at home. It just doesn't seem like Piper would actually make it through the adventures we have had alive. Danse is at least combat trained and in power armor.

[Ryzaki]

Well, in some way I can see Danse disapprove of running around with Piper because in reality it doesn't seem like a great idea for a civilian to be dodging mini nukes and avoiding feral ghouls and raiders.

Sometimes even I question travelling with Piper due to all the danger I put her in. And she has a baby sister at home. It just doesn't seem like Piper would actually make it through the adventures we have had alive. Danse is at least combat trained and in power armor.

 

Female SS was a lawywer before the war so she counts as a civ. That probably influenced my eyeroll reaction to that charming nugget from Danse.

 

Female SS tho. You do what you have to do in the fallout world

[Battlebloodmage]

Well, in some way I can see Danse disapprove of running around with Piper because in reality it doesn't seem like a great idea for a civilian to be dodging mini nukes and avoiding feral ghouls and raiders.

Sometimes even I question travelling with Piper due to all the danger I put her in. And she has a baby sister at home. It just doesn't seem like Piper would actually make it through the adventures we have had alive. Danse is at least combat trained and in power armor.

BTW, Danse actually has a self hate going on after finding out he's a synth. If you say nice things about synth, he hates it, and if you say bad things about synth, he also hates it. He's a very conflicting character after the quest and it ties to his breakup event. He believes that you break up with him because he's a synth and the teaching of the BoS makes you ignore him. He believes you value the BoS more than him now that he's a synth. 

 

Yeah, Danse is not mean to any of the human. He just doesn't think a reporter could handle the Commonwealth, in a way, he worries about her. He doesn't say that toward Cait because she's a cage fighter, Garvey is a Minutemen official. The only human he has a problem with is Deacon, but it's very obvious why. Deacon lies ALL the time, even when you're friends with him, and Danse hates dishonesty. Piper herself is worry about her sister, and the only reason she travels with you is to run away from her sister. I don't think Piper could realistically survive the Commonwealth by herself, especially knowing she was almost executed twice. It's not that she can't handle herself in a fight, but I feel like she's too nosy for her own good and rub people the wrong way.

 

Did anyone notice that Hancock is the only nonessential companions without factions? I wonder if it's intentional or not though. I like him though, as just friends, mostly. 

[London]

Good point! I like to think that she has extreme maternal instincts and toughens up real fast to find her son.

If I personally were the SS I probably wouldn't get much further than going back to my house and dying after eating radiated potato chips.

[Ryzaki]

Good point! I like to think that she has extreme maternal instincts and toughens up real fast to find her son.

If I personally were the SS I probably wouldn't get much further than going back to my house and dying after eating radiated potato chips.

 

That momma bear rage. XD

 

SAME. I'd crawl in my bed and cry and then probably get eaten by radroaches and bloatflies (dear god bloatflies. *shudders*)

 

But man Nick if Nick had been a human LI *fans self*

[Battlebloodmage]

I can no longer look at Danse the same way anymore. He's too grumpy though, so his name is pretty ironic.

 

 

I never notice how Danse look like Kaidan until someone bring it up. I tried to compare them by giving Kaidan beard.

 

 

 

I can the resemblance, but I do notice the differences. I think Danse's eyes look sharper, he has different nose, eyebrows and mouth as well. Maybe I'm just bad at seeing similarity. I guess they could be cousin or something.

 

If you don't take personality into account, who would be your top 5 in term of look?

[Anaeme]

Damn...200+ pages about knights that are gay? Seriously?

[Battlebloodmage]

Damn...200+ pages about knights that are gay? Seriously?

Ikr? I think it's a bit on the low side as well.

[SentinelMacDeath]

I can no longer look at Danse the same way anymore. He's too grumpy though, so his name is pretty ironic.

 

 

I never notice how Danse look like Kaidan until someone bring it up. I tried to compare them by giving Kaidan beard.

 

 

 

I can the resemblance, but I do notice the differences. I think Danse's eyes look sharper, he has different nose, eyebrows and mouth as well. Maybe I'm just bad at seeing similarity. I guess they could be cousin or something.

 

If you don't take personality into account, who would be your top 5 in term of look?

 

[Andraste_Reborn]

Damn...200+ pages about knights that are gay? Seriously?

 

I bet we can get to 500 before DA4 comes out.

[Akrabra]

Damn...200+ pages about knights that are gay? Seriously?

Needs more pages! 

[LorenzEffect]

MOAR PAGES

[carlo angelo]

Damn...200+ pages about knights that are gay? Seriously?

 

Hmm... had there been a gay knight in shining armour type of companion in the previous games (and pretty much explored more in fantasy fiction in general), this thread probably wouldn't exist.

 

Until then, well...

[Battlebloodmage]

Hmm... had there been a gay knight in shining armour type of companion in the previous games (and pretty much explored more in fantasy fiction in general), this thread probably wouldn't exist.

 

Until then, well...

I think we brought this to attention simply because there has been MANY MANY games that set in medieval and space, but none of the options for KISA has been gay. Bioware developers seem to have a certain archetype or even subconscious level where they lean on making those characters straight, perhaps masculinity or some certain view of KISA. We had Alistair, Cullen, Sebastian (more prince charming type, and even in games where all are playersexual, the one KISA and prince charming type is straight), Blackwall. Kaidan could qualify somewhat, but he's basically an inferior version edited from female, it takes 3 games to allow it to happen, it's funny considering his model is gay. If Fallout 4 had been made by Bioware, I'm 100% certain Danse would have been straight.

[carlo angelo]

I think we brought this to attention simply because there has been MANY MANY games that set in medieval and space, but none of the options for KISA has been gay. Bioware developers seem to have a certain archetype or even subconscious level where they lean on making those characters straight, perhaps masculinity or some certain view of KISA. We had Alistair, Cullen, Sebastian (more prince charming type, and even in games where all are playersexual, the one KISA and prince charming type is straight), Blackwall. Kaidan could qualify somewhat, but he's basically an inferior version edited from female, it takes 3 games to allow it to happen, it's funny considering his model is gay. If Fallout 4 had been made by Bioware, I'm 100% certain Danse would have been straight.

 

I understand your feelings on the matter, so I'll won't question your wariness when it comes to Bioware's portrayal of knights. But perhaps it's just me, but I'm pretty optimistic about the next Dragon Age- I mean, three games already, something's got to change after that.

 

This reminds me of what I did for my exegesis last year. I was researching queer protagonists in comics, and yeah, because of social conservative bullshit, we had the comics code authority (kind of the the censorship code for the film industry), and one of the regulations at the time decreed that homosexuality not be portrayed in a positive light. Shitty, wasn't it? Queer-coded characters (as they weren't even allowed to mention sexuality outright) are often villains, tragic victims, or comic relief (if they weren't sexual). Blah blah, this is pretty much standard queer representation history 101. Since video games are new (and relatively slow with progress compared to novels, comics, and television), I really am not surprised that there hasn't been something as "noble" as a knight archetype characterised as a non-heterosexual character.

 

I still haven't played Fallout 4 yet, but after Inquisition, it's just not the same for me, personally...