7149 réponses à ce sujet

[dsajorje3]

As a non-white person, all the gay exclusive characters have been non-white actually with Cortez and Dorian. Kaidan is Brazillian since his face model is Brazillian, and they look very similar (obviously), Sky is Asian (It's not like they could be something else). I have a feeling that Bioware is trying to be progressive by making the gay characters to be both minority and gay. It's actually a nice break from the usual gay white males we see constantly on TV which catered to gay white audience. I'm tired of seeing only gay white people in the media to be honest.

Agree about the necessity of diverse gay characters, and bioware does a good job with that, but it seems like most gay couples in the media are usually interracial, mostly for comedy though, "Look at us, we're a black and white gay couple with a Nicaraguan baby!"

[eyezonlyii]

Kaidan and Mshep should have had their own dialogue. I saw a few nice elements but nothing seemed real to me.
 
The banter between missions Steve had was sweet and sexy.    Really wish Kaidan had more of that with mSHep.   
 
The romance seemed more like an after thought and they basically recycled the stuff they did with FShep.     My male headcanon is always going to be mSHEP/Cortez.

That convo after the geth drop ship where Steve mentions he's jealous of the close quarters in the geth fighter and Shepard responds, "Well we can try under the bed next time if you like." I fell out laughing.

[Melca36]

That convo after the geth drop ship where Steve mentions he's jealous of the close quarters in the geth fighter and Shepard responds, "Well we can try under the bed next time if you like." I fell out laughing.

 

Yeah.  And it was some other lines that really sealed the deal for me.   Then there was Leviathan and Citadel...and it just made me smile.

 

I have nothing against Kaidan/mShep  but I just did not feel it the way I did for mShep/Cortez.  My headcanon has Shepard surviving and after a year long rehabilitation (Cortez helps him of course) they retire from the Alliance and lead a very private life where Cortez restores fighters and Shepard helps him while trying to write his book, and tinker around the house.      Oh and they live in a very peaceful and remote area that the reapers didnt touch and its only accessible by shuttle.

[eyezonlyii]

I might actually consider Cortez as a knight if he were able to don't armor. I feel like his personality fits the trope as well. Anyway, back to actual knights...so would our KISA be sword and shield or two handed?

[Hanako Ikezawa]

I might actually consider Cortez as a knight if he were able to don't armor. I feel like his personality fits the trope as well. Anyway, back to actual knights...so would our KISA be sword and shield or two handed?

The Kodiak is his armor and his noble steed.

[Xilizhra]

I don't think a gay KISA would *have* to be Orlesian or Antivan (although it would be interesting to learn more about those cultures from said KISA). A gay character could come from anywhere. A culture being more or less accepting of homosexuality has nothing to to with whether a person living there is gay, bi, or straight. 

 

Also, Dorian being gay isn't tied with him being a rebel. (By that, I mean he isn't *choosing* to be gay as a way of rebelling against his culture or family).  At least I sincerely hope not, because that would be..... very problematic in my eyes and would send a very unfortunate implication.  I would be upset if that happened.  People don't *choose* to be gay. Certainly not 'just because.'

Isn't he a rebel in part due to being gay? Or something?

[Who Knows]

Isn't he a rebel in part due to being gay? Or something?

More an outcast than rebel for that.

[snackrat]

*snip*

 

Also, Dorian being gay isn't tied with him being a rebel. (By that, I mean he isn't *choosing* to be gay as a way of rebelling against his culture or family).  At least I sincerely hope not, because that would be..... very problematic in my eyes and would send a very unfortunate implication.  I would be upset if that happened.  People don't *choose* to be gay. Certainly not 'just because.'

This is in part, the case. Not that he chose to be specifically, but because he is from a powerful family he is expected to have magical heirs. He don't want none o' dat. So in that sense, he is not gay because he's rebelling... but he is rebelling because he is gay (among other reasons of course, like opposing their caste system, rampant classism, glorification of demons, etc etc).

 

I don't think a gay KISA would *have* to be Orlesian or Antivan (although it would be interesting to learn more about those cultures from said KISA). A gay character could come from anywhere. A culture being more or less accepting of homosexuality has nothing to to with whether a person living there is gay, bi, or straight. 

 

*snip*

 

 

Yeah, you can obviously be straight/bi/ace/gay in a social circle consisting primarily of a differing sexuality. But in this case it would mean that a gay Fereldan would be a societal outcast. That's why I suggest Orlais or Antiva as more likely alternatives. Having a gay Fereldan runs the risk of the character having his sexuality be PART of their character, because its why they're culturally divided. And that's a problem on its own. I think everyone here agrees sexuality is not personality, so it may be best to put them in a region where it is realistic to make it a non-event, so it can be mentioned freely (rather than kept secret as if it is shameful) without people around them freaking out or, at the least, treating it as big news that affects their personal view of them as a person.

It's possible to have them from Fereldan of course (I did say 'probably') but it would be a lot harder to do it without people complaining. There are literally always people complaining. About anything. Everything. This is the internet. Best to try and reduce the hate mail the creators get by reducing the margin for error.

[Grieving Natashina]

 

 

Yeah, you can obviously be straight/bi/ace/gay in a social circle consisting primarily of a differing sexuality. But in this case it would mean that a gay Fereldan would be a societal outcast. That's why I suggest Orlais or Antiva as more likely alternatives. Having a gay Fereldan runs the risk of the character having his sexuality be PART of their character, because its why they're culturally divided. And that's a problem on its own. I think everyone here agrees sexuality is not personality, so it may be best to put them in a region where it is realistic to make it a non-event, so it can be mentioned freely (rather than kept secret as if it is shameful) without people around them freaking out or, at the least, treating it as big news that affects their personal view of them as a person.

It's possible to have them from Fereldan of course (I did say 'probably') but it would be a lot harder to do it without people complaining. There are literally always people complaining. About anything. Everything. This is the internet. Best to try and reduce the hate mail the creators get by reducing the margin for error.

 

Um, where are you getting your assumptions from?  According to World of Thedas (page 72), Fereldan is only slightly more close minded than the rest of Thedas.  Just like with most countries in that setting, Fereldan really doesn't care unless you're noble.  Now granted, being overt in your affection is considered tasteless.  That doesn't solely apply to LGBT couples either.  They frown on anyone being too amorous while out and about.  I took that to mean "No making out in public."  Otherwise, even if you're a noble, so long as you produce an heir and keep up appearances, no one really considers it an issue at all in Fereldan.  If you're a normal citizen, not a toss shall be given about who keeps your bed warm.

 

Also, a non-hetero Ferelden wouldn't have his sexuality define him or her anymore than, say, Dorian.  Sure, it would probably come into play with their story, but no more or no less than any other character from any other nation.

 

Secondly, that last paragraph is just flat out wrong about how much BW cares about those that despise having LGBT relationships in their games.  BioWare has already gotten tons of hate mail regarding any sort of LGBT relationships and characters.  They don't care about the hate mail, and will gladly tell you as such.   If they decide to include a gay/lesbian Ferelden character, they'll just do it.  After over 6 years of hate mail for LGBT relationships, they truly aren't going to care about this.   

 

You do realize that if Focus on the Family and other such groups didn't stop EA/BioWare from including same sex relationships, a handful of mouth breathers writing some angry letters isn't going to affect a thing.

 

Not to mention that BioWare doesn't care about keeping any sort of majority happy.  They care about producing a good game for everyone.  That's been their credo and it isn't going to change.  Honestly, if they cared about making the majority happy, they would have gone back to having most of the LIs for straight men.  

 

Finally, most of the folks that play this series don't give a crap where the LGBT LIs are from.  The nation is secondary to the representation.  The DA team isn't going to exclude the idea of a Ferelden gay/lesbian LI just because a few loud players might not like it.  Given the history that both BioWare and EA has had with the LGBT community, to make such an assumption is silly and erroneous.  

[veeia]

Personally, I'd love to see a story about a character where homosexuality is not as accepted and have the story not be about that. This applies less to DA as it does to other media, but it's an obnoxious trope. People living in areas where their sexuality is frowned upon have other large dramas in their lives worth telling instead of the same narrative over and over.

[Grieving Natashina]

I think we can do that without making non-heterosexuality less accepted in games.  I'm only speaking for myself here, but I have gone through enough of that personally in my lifetime.  Up to and including threats of being "corrected" by the rodeo team when I was 16, which a friend of mine talked them out of.  One of them hit him with a car because of it.  He had a shattered left leg, a broken right leg and 6 stitches in his forehead to protect me.

 

Yeah, high school sucked, but I digress.

 

I play DA games (and the ME series as well) largely because my PC isn't treated differently due to their sexuality (or gender, for that matter.)   Most of the time, especially with femShep and Hawke, there is much bigger issues at hand.  I do agree that I'm sick of the meat and drama of a LGBT character coming from their sexual identity, and that writers in general should branch out more.

[veeia]

Oh no definitely, I am all for fantasy worlds where we can sidestep that all together. I hate the idea that homophobia and sexism and racism "need" to exist in fantasy worlds because of "realism."

I was thinking more contemporary stories--but mostly that was to address the the idea that if homosexuality was unacceptable in Feraldan that the story need revolve around it. It doesn't, but its easy to see why some people might think of that when we have so few contemporary examples.

[karushna5]

Oh no definitely, I am all for fantasy worlds where we can sidestep that all together. I hate the idea that homophobia and sexism and racism "need" to exist in fantasy worlds because of "realism."

I was thinking more contemporary stories--but mostly that was to address the the idea that if homosexuality was unacceptable in Feraldan that the story need revolve around it. It doesn't, but its easy to see why some people might think of that when we have so few contemporary examples.

 

That makes sense. I need an average RomCom where the story is pretty Kooky (like most romcoms) but treated as the same in regards to romance, treated as a loving romp rather than just sexy. I feel like most LGBT movies/shows focus way more on the sex and often have weak romance. And lots and lots of drama centered on the sexualities. Be nice to have a normal, sweet thing regardless of societies views.

[Grieving Natashina]

We'll have to take this to PM if you want to discuss that further.  I'd love to chat about this, but since this is a thread about a fantasy trope, I'd like to try to keep it a little more on topic.  

 

If there is going to be a non-hetero KISA, I hope that there isn't a lot of anguish or strife over his/her sexual identity.  I don't want him/her to be without issues, but I do want him/her happy with who they are attracted to and who they love.  

 

Another reason why I support a non-hetero KISA is because chivalry plus romance plus being comfortable with who they are = hot to me.

 

See, while I like Alistair, it would be welcome to have someone much like that, only completely comfortable with their sexual identity.  I'll admit, one of the things that almost put me off of a Alistair romance is that the "bumbling virgin knight" is a little overdone.  Thankfully, the writers stepped up and made him more of his own person.  

 

That doesn't change the desire to have a knight that isn't a virgin or shy, but charming without being overly blunt with his/her advances.  Someone with a sense of romance without going by just what they read in a book.  Also, I'd like a tall/dark/handsome bisexual knight, but that's because that's my type.

[eyezonlyii]

We'll have to take this to PM if you want to discuss that further.

Add me too please! I love talking about this.

[goishen]

Not sure if this has been discussed before, and since I'm a straight male (full disclosure FTW), I'm going to talk about lesbian romance options.  Oh, and I'm not going through 23 pages of stuff to find out.

 

Leliana doesn't really have all that dark a past.  At least no darker than Alistair's.  Remember, Alistair was in training to become a templar, a mage hunter.  An apostate killer.  It didn't matter what they had done or what they will do.  He had to put them down if they used blood magic.  Plus, being the bastard of the king.  It's just that Leliana started her career killing, if you wanna call it that, much earlier.  But then again, she found the chantry.

 

Also, Merrill didn't really have all that much a dark past either.  Sure, she tried to rebuild the eluvian (think that's spelled right) and found out the only way to do was with blood magic.  And that was for her people. 

 

Morrigan?   Ehhhh.   I'm kind'a gonna have to go with you on this one, but I think Morrigan is gonna save the day in DA:I.   Call it hunch.

 

So...   Dark spot in their past?  No darker than anyone else's, really.  They've all done stuff.  It's what we make of it that makes it seem darker than others.

 

EDIT :   I think one thing that I think that you're having a problem with is how much sexual verification they each got.  Of course, with Alistair being in very high society, he got very little from anything.  Leliana got a little bit more being on the streets in Orlais.  Morrigan got extreme amounts of gratification from everything (not explicitly sexual) because there was no one else around besides Flemeth.  Merrill, I feel, didn't express her sexuality because the elves were kind'a putting that off because they had bigger issues at hand.

 

Anyway, my 2 cents.

[karushna5]

Not sure if this has been discussed before, and since I'm a straight male (full disclosure FTW), I'm going to talk about lesbian romance options.  Oh, and I'm not going through 23 pages of stuff to find out.

 

Leliana doesn't really have all that dark a past.  At least no darker than Alistair's.  Remember, Alistair was in training to become a templar, a mage hunter.  An apostate killer.  It didn't matter what they had done or what they will do.  He had to put them down if they used blood magic.  Plus, being the bastard of the king.  It's just that Leliana started her career killing, if you wanna call it that, much earlier.  But then again, she found the chantry.

 

Also, Merrill didn't really have all that much a dark past either.  Sure, she tried to rebuild the eluvian (think that's spelled right) and found out the only way to do was with blood magic.  And that was for her people. 

 

Morrigan?   Ehhhh.   I'm kind'a gonna have to go with you on this one, but I think Morrigan is gonna save the day in DA:I.   Call it hunch.

 

So...   Dark spot in their past?  No darker than anyone else's, really.  They've all done stuff.  It's what we make of it that makes it seem darker than others.

 

EDIT :   I think one thing that I think that you're having a problem with is how much sexual verification they each got.  Of course, with Alistair being in very high society, he got very little from anything.  Leliana got a little bit more being on the streets in Orlais.  Morrigan got extreme amounts of gratification from everything (not explicitly sexual) because there was no one else around besides Flemeth.  Merrill, I feel, didn't express her sexuality because the elves were kind'a putting that off because they had bigger issues at hand.

 

Anyway, my 2 cents.

 

Dark can have more than one meaning, Bisexual LIs have had dark pasts/ or dark presents. Merrill is an outcast because of her blood magic which made her feared by her clan to the point she is kicked out. She pursues the Eluvian despite all the cost to her life or those around her, and it ruins her life that without Hawke/company she would have been in deep trouble and the narrative recognized it.

Leliana was a bard who kept her life secret. She was devious, and used to take pleasure in humiliating and destroying people's lives. The fact that she is that no longer is a huge deal, but I think it qualifies as a dark past.

 

Compare that to Alistair, who is noble and straight. I will say Morrigan is fairly dark, but not Aveline. The idea is a straight person seems to be portrayed with the full spectrum, while many LGBT seem to have particular roles. I will admit KISA is more of a male problem than women, who usually are more sexualized and often cannot be portrayed as tough by any means or else many people complain of "bad stereotypes" which as I have said before is pretty harmful to Butch lesbians/Bisexuals.

 

As far as excuses for why they don't mention sexuality it can be a huge number of in story reasons, but it is important to realize these things are written in a certain way. Isabela is very much a Bisexual, but her amount of dialogue about women is vague and few compared to her romance arc, about men, and most of her flirts are with men. 

 

Anders only mentions women if the PC is a man, despite being Bisexual.

 

Fenris never mentions a man, despite being bisexual, and is later with Isabela.

 

So seeing these 4 bisexual characters only be openly Bisexual with the same sex, Merrill is harder to explain in story terms and it is realized they were written for ambiguity. They were supposed to seem available to Bisexuals and lesbians/gays but exclusive to straight people in terms of who you romanced. This can be very othering.

[Todd23]

From what I've seen of our past companions, I didn't even know warriors could be gay.

[karushna5]

Well, Iron Bull is Bisexual. Fenris was Bisexual. These are the first Gay and Lesbian characters in the Dragon Age games so it is kinda new, but there have been LGBT warriors before, but none gay/lesbian. I think next game if they keep the current sexuality system they will add one.

[boissiere]

You forgot Leliana and Zevran who are clearly bisexual in DAO.

[Grieving Natashina]

You forgot Leliana and Zevran who are clearly bisexual in DAO.

She was referring to warrior characters in this case.

[sandalisthemaker]

A big thank you to everyone who liked this thread and made it 'popular.'

[Grieving Natashina]

A big thank you to everyone who liked this thread and made it 'popular.'

It's a great idea and a wonderful topic.  Glad I could help!

[Hellion Rex]

A big thank you to everyone who liked this thread and made it 'popular.'

And thank you for creating this thread. It was a long time coming and the topic needed to be broached.

[karushna5]

I was wandering if it would be off topic to disscuss other character types we rarely get to see...

 

More LGBT type of characters I would like to see...

 

The Cool tough character (like wrex and Garrus later, hopefully Iron Bull)

The powerhouse (Jack, and a bit Morrigan)

The Scholar characters (Mordin, Solas, Dagna)