So it's like my disorder, pretty much?
Not really, it's more like having to censor yourself, because a discussion about spouses is limited to heterosexual ones, and talk about sexual attraction is limited only to the opposite gender. It's about double standards.
^ Wade and Herren were confirmed to be a couple, yes. Incidentally, DG's remarks in that thread are worth a read.
For both Wade/Herren and the WEWH couple, I never got the feeling that we were supposed to be laughing at them, or at their expense. With Wade and Herren it's more based on Wade being an artist and Herren actually wanting to, you know, eat occasionally, and all of it is enhanced by the fact that Wade is a superbly brilliant blacksmith. The war table mission even has Cullen remark that Wade's talent is undeniable.
In WEWH, I just found the circumstance amusing, and to me it has nothing to do with them being a same-sex pairing. This is the same level of amusement I get from hearing the duchess talk about her many dead husbands, and all of the odd circumstances of their deaths.
He didn't write Wade/Herren, but David Gaider seems to have a liking for contentious relationships, probably based around his own parents' behavior toward each other. "As I watch my parents, it belatedly occurs to me there's a good reason my idea of a relationship looks more like a combative friendship."
But that's just me and how I view both incidents.
Ick let somebody else' baseball team pick up Wade & Herren please. There's too many sassy queen joke characters as it is.
I contributed here some time ago and I think my point was that if you would try to represent every possible side of sexuality and gender and possibly race you would be looking at a pool of 50 plus characters easily. I get what has been said about wanting a representation of people that is more life like in terms of it's variety and to get away from the stereotype of the butch lesbian with her hard outer shell who wanted to make it as a woman without being pitied or the gay man who secretly longs to be a princess or some such. I do get that and I do get, that as a white, male, heterosexual it's probably hardest to understand that simply because we are so used to having the lead be a white, male, heterosexual who ticks all the boxes of traditional masculinity.
The questions I am always asking myself when reading here are:
1. Are we not forcing these representations down people's throat? Should it not be the player's choice in some way whether or not he/she is actually comfortable with representation of homosexuality and other sexual orientations in the game they are playing and even if they are do they care and even if they do, shouldn't they have a choice from the start to basically say: yes I would like life's diversity reflected in the cast of this game or no: straight characters for me only? The same way players of homosexual, bisexual or any other sexual orientation should also be able to say: look I've had it now after years and years of being neglected and put down, I don't give a **** anymore, give me an all homosexual cast? So should the answer not be to have a pool of say 16 characters for a team of 8 or whatever which has 4 males and females of the 4 different races which are either all straight, all homosexual or a mix instead of trying to add a new type of Lesbian, a new type of Gay, a new type of Bi-Sexual (who are usually charakterized as being promiscouis and just looking for sex) every game or trying to somehow bring balance to something that can never have balance. You have gay men who are queer, you have gay men who are as rugged as it gets, the same is true for lesbian females but the same is also true of heterosexual and bi-sexual people and the same is also true for people with no or little interest in sex or relationships. It's impossible to somehow represent life in all it's fullness and diversity. The best you can hope for his to have a 16 or 24 for characters, 8 because 2 dwarves (male and female), two Elves (male an female), two Qunari (male and female) and two humans (you get the picture). And have those in heterosexual form, homosexual form, bi-sexual form and then for all I care pick the people who you like best simply because they are who they are. If you do not like or feel represented by the gay dwarf who is more feminine in his demeanor than for all intents and purposed pick the gay Templar who is simply a Templar who likes guys but is still up for drinking, farting and arm wreslting. There is simply no point in trying to add a new type of character when you thereby throw out another type of character that is as common in real life as the guy or girl you are replacing him or her with.
2. Again... how on earth do you want to get this done. At some level those characters will simply be defined by their sexuality because even in DA: I you have the problem of having such a massive cast that some are simply critically underwritten and underdeveloped. The larger this cast gets, the larger the problem will become, at least by Bioware's current standards because writing, once their strong suit, is now criminally underachieving. If they changed that, fine, I could deal with a cast of 16 or 12 or whatever. If not, what is the point? I found the Iron Bull to be appalling in his whole demeanor and view on the issue. I found Solas to be absolutely boring and annoying. I found Blackwall to be criminally underdeveloped and his motives and his past never fully explained. I found Cassandra to be an appaling choice as the only viable Romance option for a heterosexual male who wants a love interest in their party. Apart from which I found her fairly interesting but again... underwritten and developed. I found Cullen to be bloodless, as was Varric compared to his role in DA II, I found Leliana to be utterly unlike herself, no matter how stupidly they explained her reasons and so on. If you want a variety in the cast then they need to actually spend more time developing these characters. Honestly? I didn't give a **** about Dorian's sexuality. I didn't even notice it the first time through the game until he pointed it out. And that is my point. Yes I get the identification and empowerment a "normal" homosexual character would bring but then again I think: who the hell gives a ****? I don't. And not because I'm unfeeling but because most of the characters since DA II were so cornily written, that I simply did not give a **** about their sexuality whatsoever because I was more annoyed with fart and poop jokes by Sera, Iron Bull being a male ****, Dorian being a whiney ****** and so on. Even if they weren't written as badly... I'm not sure I would care because to me, sexuality isn't something you wear on your sleeve and it shouldn't be. It's something intimate and private. It's something that should be respected but is also, nothing that defines you to me as a person. How on earth does it matter if you sleep with girls, boys, both, none at all or animals if you are a dick? It doesn't. It matters even less when you are a nice person or a friend. Yes I might notice or you might tell me. Yes we might not talk about girls because you like boys. So what? It should only matter in this game when it comes down to love interest not when it comes down to charakterizing the character. So why not friggin leave it open? Why not simply leave the choice to the player. If the player doesn't choose the companion then for all I care, let the end show their intended sexuality and have them find a partner or tell the player. I quite liked Dorian in general because he was pretty whitty and the most interesting because of where he hails from. But every time I played the game after realizing his sexuality and reading that the game basically designed him specifically to represent a major gay character and a major gay loveinterest I got annoyed because you noticed the little hints and innuendos more dramatically and it totally degraded the character for me and made talking to him a chore. What I'm saying here: leave the ****** sexuality at the door. Don't rub in that Sera is a lesbian. If I don't pick her as a love interest: go ahead. Give her a girlfriend and let me meet the girlfriend. But until that time: I don't care because I wouldn't care in real life. Same for Dorian and Bull. And if a homosexual player would like to be with Blackwall or Cullen as a guy: let them!
3. Again: why do we need preferences of any kind? Why isn't Cullen into Dwarves and basically leaves you with a hormone sack who screws everything that moves or an old bearded dude who is kind of shady and who I wouldn't leave alone with my kids? (and yes I roleplayed as a girl!) Why can you only Romance Solas as a friggin' elf? And all that nonsense. Give me a break. Cullen is so ****** in awe of you and so devoted to you that he'd give you a reach around if you were Grizzly Adams. Solas is so into spirits and meeting of the minds that he would do you if you were a dwarf etc. It's utterly ridiculous especially if you think about the possible end of the world... you really think Cullen would give a **** after Lyrium withdrawal from whom he gets some? You really think Solas would with all the **** he already caused? You think Cassandra who has longed for love all her life would turn down a woman who honestly loves and cherishes her, leads by example and treats her with respect? You think Sera who probably has been looking for love and acceptance wherever she could find them in her life would care? I strongly doubt it. This is not real life. And even if it were a proper representation. For crying out loud the solution is so easy: write real characters. Don't decide their sexuality before writing their soul. Hell don't write their race and gender before deciding what kind of person this character should be and then leave the choice to the player. I think it would be much more magical if anyone could end up with anyone and if you then find out, afrer 150 hours of playing the game, that this character likes guys, or this one, or this one.
1. Are we not forcing these representations down people's throat?
Nope. Any time somebody leaves their house, they might meet a gay person. Why should fiction be any different?
The Dragon Age team have made it pretty clear that if people don't want to see LGBT characters, they should go and play something else.
2. Again... how on earth do you want to get this done.
People in this thread are asking for (at minimum) one character that fits one archetype. It's not like it's a complex request or they need to give us fifty gay KISAs all at once. You're over-complicating the question.
3. Again: why do we need preferences of any kind?
Because it makes the characters more realistic - real people have all kinds of sexual preferences, it is OK for fictional people to have them too. Especially when it means people with minority sexualities get to see people like them represented in the games they play.
I was OK with DA2 where those preferences were all bisexual, and with not having race restrictions, but putting in gay characters and characters with racial preferences does give more texture to the world.
a whoring bi-sexual Antivan "ambassador"
How did you get whoring from Josephine, the romance option where it is stated she is a virgin(being an innocent is a synonym for being a virgin) and doesn't even have a sex scene with the Inquisitor, do to being written by the writer to have it so it can be a romance without sex?
Also, why is ambassador in quotation marks?
How did you get whoring from Josephine, the romance option where it is stated she is a virgin(being an innocent is a synonym for being a virgin) and doesn't even have a sex scene with the Inquisitor, do to being written by the writer to have it so it can be a romance without sex?
Also, why is ambassador in quotation marks?
Really? That is what you focus on? That? First of all, even if she is a virgin, which I in no way buy being that she is from Antiva and has been active as a bard, a job in which seduction and the like is basically a major tool, as Leliana pointed out in DA:O, I admit I'm a racist because I personally always got the feeling that Antiva is sort of loose, when it comes to morals and sexuality and that this is exemplified by type casting her, the sort of hot, exotic girl from this hot exotic country who is sort of into hot exotic sex with both men and women. Maybe that is racist of me or maybe it's simply the ****** fault of Bioware for sending completely mixed signals and honestly... how many friggin people who played the game actually caught the "virgin" reference, mentioned once and only by Leliana not even by your love interest, and researched why you don't get to have sex with her on screen? More power to you for doing all that but seriously? You are the one per cent in this case and that does not speak very well of the writing for the character.
Ambassador is in quotation marks because she is a glorified Secretary. Think about it... you are the boss, Leliana is also sort of the boss as well as being an official member of the clergy hierarchy, as is Cassandra who is sort of the semi-boss and also has ties to the nobility and Cullen is also the boss and another member with official standing in church hierarchy. All of you are basically constantly around when something happens, if you aren't then at least Leliana and Cullen are and Josephine sits in the Antechamber to your office, scribbling stuff, constantly asking you what she should do, never leaving her desk to actually go to a country or city to represent the interests of the Inquisition... how the **** is she an ambassador? She is at best your secretary, at worst some clerk they decided to input because the realized that they only had one love interest for dwarfen males, human males, qunari males, and elfen males who are heterosexual.
Anyway... thx for focusing on that out of the whole thing I wrote... wow.
First of all, even if she is a virgin, which I in no way buy being that she is from Antiva and has been active as a bard, a job in which seduction and the like is basically a major tool, as Leliana pointed out in DA:O, I admit I'm a racist because I personally always got the feeling that Antiva is sort of loose, when it comes to morals and sexuality and that this is exemplified by type casting her, the sort of hot, exotic girl from this hot exotic country who is sort of into hot exotic sex with both men and women. Maybe that is racist of me or maybe it's simply the ****** fault of Bioware for sending completely mixed signals and honestly... how many friggin people who played the game actually caught the "virgin" reference, mentioned once and only by Leliana not even by your love interest, and researched why you don't get to have sex with her on screen? More power to you for doing all that but seriously? You are the one per cent in this case and that does not speak very well of the writing for the character.
Your belief is not required. What I said are established facts.
Being a bard does not mean you sleep around. It can be a tool certainly, as we have seen with Leliana and Marjolaine, but there are other ways a bard can be a bard than seduction and murder. Leliana even says that in Origins.
When asked about what Josephine did as a bard, her writer answered that all she did was dance, play musical instruments, and make polite conversation. Plus she wasn't a bard for a long time like Leliana was, instead quitting soon after she started after she accidentally killed a man she knew while defending herself from him, being the event that cemented her feelings about seeking non-violent solutions to problems.
No, it's just you being racist. Bioware made it very clear she isn't like Zevran and sent no mixed signals. In fact, at least half the Antivans we've met in the games aren't like how you describe.
Most other people caught on that as well. You're one of if not the only person I've seen say she is whoring around, and I'm the OP of her character thread so have seen all opinions of her, positive and negative. That makes you the outlier, not the norm.
Ambassador is in quotation marks because she is a glorified Secretary. Think about it... you are the boss, Leliana is also sort of the boss as well as being an official member of the clergy hierarchy, as is Cassandra who is sort of the semi-boss and also has ties to the nobility and Cullen is also the boss and another member with official standing in church hierarchy. All of you are basically constantly around when something happens, if you aren't then at least Leliana and Cullen are and Josephine sits in the Antechamber to your office, scribbling stuff, constantly asking you what she should do, never leaving her desk to actually go to a country or city to represent the interests of the Inquisition... how the **** is she an ambassador? She is at best your secretary, at worst some clerk they decided to input because the realized that they only had one love interest for dwarfen males, human males, qunari males, and elfen males who are heterosexual.
So I'm guessing you miss all the discussions that are had in the game where she is being an ambassador then? There are the scenes we see her doing so, there are dialogues she shares with you, there are the dialogues she has with others, there are the War Table operations, etc. I don't know why I ask since at this point it is clear you paid no attention to any of the characters or story in the game.
Anyway... thx for focusing on that out of the whole thing I wrote... wow.
You're welcome. It was more attention than your post deserved.
Stuck up much? You equate the feedback you get here from a handfull of people with the opinion of millions of people who played the game? Seriously, that is some elitism right there. I'm sorry I offended your precious Josephine but not everyone who plays a game then has the time or is even interested in reading what the writer envisioned her to be and what her writer envisioned her backstory to be. If the game is too lazy or too shallow to include those details into the actual characterization in the game itself (not secondary sources like interviews, writers ideas, blogs, forum discussions etc.) then there is clearly something wrong with the writing. Antiva has always been portraid as a country in which political intrigue and murder was common, rules and morals were lose and basically everything goes. But yeah it is probably just me, because if 200 people (if that) on an online forum who discuss a character in depth side with you on one point or the other, clearly you can not be wrong in any way and clearly the millions of people who played the game will have exactly the same idea as those 200 and you, will have researched every nook and cranny and every tidbit of information they could find about this character and the process by which she was developed and the brain storming that took place and all the information not mentioned in the actual game. Clearly. Get over yourself.
I didn't miss any discussion. I'm simply telling you that apparently you have no clue what an ambassador is. An ambassador doesn't sit on her arse in Skyhold and hosts parties and says hello to some dignataries that decide to pop in for a spot of tea. An ambassador is based in a foreign country which your country/organisation regognizes as a country. The ambassador is usually the first partner for the government of said country to prepare visits from her country, prepare foreign dignitaries for their visit to the ambassadors country, be the source of information for political developements in their country, represents the country at state dinners or other formal occassions which the head of state can not partake in and also is in charge of the embassy which provides services to citizens of your country in that other country be it the issuing or renewal of passports, extradiction and so on. By definition there is no ambassador for the US in the US and no ambassador for Germany in Germany. So how on earth does she represent anything by sitting around in Skyhold, when at the same time you would have Leliana present or Cullen or, as in most cases like judging people, even yourself, the Inquisitior would be present?
It's simply lazy writing again. She does not have an embassy. Yes you send her around... or rather her "agents" on some wartable missions... the same way you send around some of Leliana's and Cullen's invisible penguins or whatever they use as agents apart from the people your recruit. What else does she do? Oh yeah... sit in front of your OFFICE! Like ... a secretary. And of course she always stands around ready to listen to you and write everything down you say like... a secretary. She files away your papers, she writes your letters which you then only have to seal or give some feedback on them like ... a secretary.
So before you start bullshitting yourself again and start declaring what you and five of your friends in your thread decided to be canon, even though it's not in the game and therefore by definition not canon for people who play the games, please look up what an actual ambassador do... he/she isn't a glorified secretary.
If you wonder why my answer to you is so nasty and pissed off it is because I hate people who completely disregard everything I said for gender equality and equality of sexuality and races because I insulted their favourite character in a ****** video game!
<snip>
Okay, but the thing is this: Bioware does include a variety of sexualities in the game. There is definitely room to discuss whether this is the right approach or not, but this thread isn't about that. This thread is about, given the assumption that they are going to continue the trend from the past few games, asking for one of the gay/bisexual characters to be a KISA type. If you want to give them feedback about removing the sexualities from their characters, you should probably create a thread to do that.
Bioware doesn't allow you to determine your companions' characteristics. They aren't that kind of game developer. They provide you with a cast of characters that are already defined. Again, if you are suggesting that they make a drastic shift in how they operate as writers, then I would suggest creating a thread to discuss that.
Finally, no one has ever said that the cast is representational of any real world demographics. And, if you know the first thing about how statistics work, you would recognize that a group the size that we are talking about (somewhere around 6-12) will never be representational of the larger population, either through random or purposeful sampling. So your entire point on demographics is moot. Because it doesn't work like that.
This is a pretty good representation of what I want the future gay LI to look like/be like.
This is a pretty good representation of what I want the future gay LI to look like/be like.
A muscular guy who forgot leg days? 
j/k, I'm not too crazy about Mohawk, I find it even less attractive than long haired, but I like everything else. A barbarian type LI would be pretty nice.
You are out to ruin everything, aren't ya >:I
Just different taste, I guess. lol
Although that guy looks a lot like Blackwall if you grow out the hair. Actually, he looks exactly like blackwall with the widow's peak, beards, and exact same eyebrows and eyes. XD
True. But then again Blackwall is love. Just make every character in DA4 a gay Blackwall. Thanks BW.
This is a pretty good representation of what I want the future gay LI to look like/be like.
I'd date that bird. 
I'd date that bird.
Okay you furry freak time to get rid of your sins.
Okay you furry freak time to get rid of your sins.
I can only hope for the day we get a furry romance!
For some NSFW fun check out furry force on YouTube. It's...entertaining.
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA brilliant. I screamed when the squirrel gave birth. DAMN.
Maybe this thead need to be closed cos noone for hundreds of pages talking anymore about what was in a thead beginning about adding another romancable gay char who would be a noble knight archetype
and yeah i am sure that everybody for 2 years already see this thread and perfectly understand what someone wanted to have, so what the point of this thread existence anymore?
Except, of course, for the ones just today that were talking about what they would want the KISA LI to look like. But, sure...... 
Not everything needs to be for "point". I am generally a supporter of logic, but sometimes nice to have something just like that. Because good, just for fun.
Personally I think Amukiki might count as a KISA, he's a warrior, very honor driven, cares deeply about his culture and takes every oath he makes seriously. The romance is a bit frictiony but imo that's more of the player character's fault than it is Amukiki's since romance or no your player character does start off rather jealous/threatened by him serving your mistress. Also thought his personal story was interesting and touching, helped showed why he is prideful of his people and their ways. Not sure if the female romance for him differs much from the male romance but just going by my last run and how the personal story went I don't think it does too much. Again I"m not too sure. Anyway sorry to be babbling just wanted to toss my own two cents in on who I thought might be KISA material.
Retour en haut
