7143 réponses à ce sujet

[veeia]

Its already been explained in the thread why some people feel that way and I alluded to it in my post so I don't know how my response to you would be any different, Kallen. We have to agree to disagree there but I don't think I'm being hypocritical. I think it would be hypocritical of me to say what you're saying, since its inconsistent with my stated beliefs. I find your perspective (and frankly, your characterization of mine) reductionist, but you're certainly entitled to it. Shrug.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

 

Its already been explained in the thread why some people feel that way and I alluded to it in my post so I don't know how my response to you would be any different, Kallen. 

I've read the explanations, and some of them are quite frankly disgusting. 

 

We have to agree to disagree there but I don't think I'm being hypocritical.

People usually don't. Doesn't mean they aren't. 

 

 I think it would be hypocritical of me to say what you're saying, since its inconsistent with my stated beliefs.

So I'm the one being hypocritical, huh? Wow, didn't realize that pointing out two things that are the same as being the same and should be seen as such as being hypocritical. I always saw it as like, the opposite of that. 

 

I find your perspective (and frankly, your characterization of mine) reductionist, but you're certainly entitled to it. Shrug.

Did you or did you not both agree with them making Kaidan bisexual when he wasn't available as such in ME1 and that making a gay character attracted to the opposite sex or realize they are bisexual as something that shouldn't be done? 

[Bipster]

Kind of derailing the thread here guys. Maybe take it to PM?

 

Would hate to see my new fav. thread get locked.

[veeia]

I agree, this is derailing.  Not going to respond, except to say that you read that wrong. I said it would be hypocritical of ME to say what you're saying, not that you're a hypocrite. 

[Grieving Natashina]

I concur.  There is only one LGBT thread open and active currently, and this is it.  

[Hanako Ikezawa]

Fine, whatever. 

[karushna5]

Yeah Aria appeals on the power house badass lady in charge lesbian level. If she was bisexual, she'd fall into more of that tired trope, but even with that,.the thing I like about her is that we aren't supposed to fix her, or command her, or whatever. She's not ambiguous or shifty, she straight up tells you who she is and she means it---she's not hiding a puppy dog heart. She also makes a good contrast to the ME f/f options.

KISA > all, but. Unf.

 

Women do love our take charge ladies. I do think KISA is slightly more important for men than women. I don't want my knight to be above reproach, or even a shining beacon. I want a physically capable female character with an active personality as an LI. Honestly, Morrigan was the darkest LI in Origins and I would have traded Leli in a second for her. Jack and Ashley were my favorites in ME. I favored Isabela over Merrill.

 

I don't know if many other lesbians/bisexuals feel the same way, but I prefer active women to passive ones, not in a political way but as characters I really love and naturally gravitate to. Morrigan was an active character compared to Lelianna. Ashley was more active than Liara, Isabella more active than Merrill, Jack was more active than Kelly or Traynor. I feel naturally attracted to active vs passive (not that passive is bad by any means, just my preference in pixelated LIs)

 

So I would have preferred an Aria to about anybody if she were romanceable.

[JadePrince]

I imagine if you aren't LGBT, then it's hard to understand how taking a candy from the (very nearly empty) LGBT bowl and giving it to the (very very very full) straight bowl is more unfair than taking a candy from the straight bowl (which again, is very very full of straight characters*cough*errr candies) and giving it to the (very hungry and appreciative) LGBT bowl. But that's the best way I've heard it explained.

 

Back on topic-- I love the dragon hunter/prince idea. I'd LOVE our gay/bi KISA to be royalty. Not every LGB character needs to have tragic/humble origins, after all! We are born everywhere, in every social class. It could even be an interesting point of conflict between our PC and the KISA if they've had very different childhoods/upbringings.  

[Grieving Natashina]

The possibilities are so neat, aren't they?  

[Lieutenant Kurin]

As weird as it sounds, I felt like he was more Shepard sexual. I don't know if there's a word really for it, but he seemed like he was straight, but he fell in love with a Shepard of either gender.

 

Straight, with a side of bisexuality for Male Shepard?

But only Shepard, though.

 

I guess he's just bisexual, with a primary attraction to Shepard, and may have not experience any attraction to other men.

I'm still bummed about Cullen. I heard from a friend (who knows people I'll be very vague here) a long time ago that he was a planned bi LI, and idk if she was confused/lying to me, or things changed, but I had taken that as a given so it's taking me awhile to get over that disappointment. My fault I suppose for getting attached to it, lol.

I do agree though Dave, the retcon charges would have been awful and as a bisexual who hasn't always been open or even aware of it, I already find the Anders/Kaiden discussing upsetting enough. Also Cullen is such a polarizing character, haha.

Fine, whatever. 

 

I'm gonna weigh on this once, because I've said it enough earlier on in this thread, and in others, but I'm getting old. Kaidan has read to me as straight, but biromantic. Meaning that he holds no initial attraction to men, but fell in love with Shepard anyway because of their history and mutual friendship. He actually says that he's interested in a deeper relationship with someone he already cares about, so it fits. Later, after falling in love, he can slowly get used to the idea of physical love with Shepard, and yes, develop attraction to him.

 

They've happened in real life, it's just rare. And it often requires a deep rapport for one to admit to another that belongs to a gender their not attracted to that they have feelings for them.

 

Also @veeia, Please don't remind me about Cullen . I'm still reeling.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

I imagine if you aren't LGBT, then it's hard to understand how taking a candy from the (very nearly empty) LGBT bowl and giving it to the (very very very full) straight bowl is more unfair than taking a candy from the straight bowl (which again, is very very full of straight characters*cough*errr candies) and giving it to the (very hungry and appreciative) LGBT bowl. But that's the best way I've heard it explained.

Considering the only piece of candy I thought my bowl had was taken away, I think I can say I can understand.  

That said, having no candy lets me see the issues from an unbiased perspective so I can say that taking candy from the other bowl and changing it for your bowl to grow in amount of candy is equally not okay. 

[Battlebloodmage]

Nice weather we have today.

[eyezonlyii]

Considering the only piece of candy I thought my bowl had was taken away, I think I can say I can understand.  

That said, having no candy lets me see the issues from an unbiased perspective so I can say that taking candy from the other bowl and changing it for your bowl to grow in amount of candy is equally not okay. 

If it happens, think of it as Bioware being the Chivalrous Knight In Shining Armor^TM and defending the downtrodden! 

[veeia]

Women do love our take charge ladies. I do think KISA is slightly more important for men than women. I don't want my knight to be above reproach, or even a shining beacon. I want a physically capable female character with an active personality as an LI. Honestly, Morrigan was the darkest LI in Origins and I would have traded Leli in a second for her. Jack and Ashley were my favorites in ME. I favored Isabela over Merrill.

 

I don't know if many other lesbians/bisexuals feel the same way, but I prefer active women to passive ones, not in a political way but as characters I really love and naturally gravitate to. Morrigan was an active character compared to Lelianna. Ashley was more active than Liara, Isabella more active than Merrill, Jack was more active than Kelly or Traynor. I feel naturally attracted to active vs passive (not that passive is bad by any means, just my preference in pixelated LIs)

 

So I would have preferred an Aria to about anybody if she were romanceable.

 

Agreed with all of this, although I think many would prefer Leli to Morrigan or Merrill to Isabela. The nice thing about DA2 was that you could have either one. Variation in tropes while being mindful of the associations certain tropes will evoke is the best way for them to do it imo. I look forward to seeing how they do this in DA:I. 

 

 I think KISA is probably more important for a male character because it's so tied into ideas of masculinity in ways that it's not with women, but I would be lying if I didn't say Cass and then cry and sob on the floor and ask for a character like her for the next game, lmao.  

[karushna5]

I'm gonna weigh on this once, because I've said it enough earlier on in this thread, and in others, but I'm getting old. Kaidan has read to me as straight, but biromantic. Meaning that he holds no initial attraction to men, but fell in love with Shepard anyway because of their history and mutual friendship. He actually says that he's interested in a deeper relationship with someone he already cares about, so it fits. Later, after falling in love, he can slowly get used to the idea of physical love with Shepard, and yes, develop attraction to him.

 

They've happened in real life, it's just rare. And it often requires a deep rapport for one to admit to another that belongs to a gender their not attracted to that they have feelings for them.

 

Also @veeia, Please don't remind me about Cullen . I'm still reeling.

 

My fiance, after I told her about different asexual terminologies, identified with the idea of being heterosexualal biromantic demisexual. And then declared it way to long and she liked it simple with bisexual.

 

She is only attracted to women she has had a deep bond with. So me, and a few other friends she had in the past. But she can see a random man and she can find him hot and sexually attractive if he hits her buttons right. A guy jogging in the street can be sexy enough she turns her head while driving. A woman would never get the same reaction. Me in a less than baggy outfit on the other hand can get her distracted even around company, and she tries to be sneakily handsy.

 

Strange enough her best friend (who she previously had a huge crush on to the point of angst before me) came to us really upset not too long ago because she fell in love with her roommate who is a lesbian, but doesn't want a relationship. Never was attracted to a single woman before, but this one was the exception.

 

It happens.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

 

If it happens, think of it as Bioware being the Chivalrous Knight In Shining Armor^TM and defending the downtrodden!  

How would Bioware be the Chivalrous Knight in Shining Armor in this scenario when they were what made me downtrodden and do the taking a piece of candy from one bowl and changing it for another bowl? 

[Ryzaki]

Nice weather we have today.

 

It's freezing here

[HuldraDancer]

Just going to give my worthless two cents in here, a gay KISA character would be pretty cool especially a male one. I rarely complete m/m romances mostly due to just never usually doing more than one run as a male PC but much like how Dorian is making me eager to play as a male PC a KISA character would diffidently encourage me to continue playing out of my own comfort zone and who doesn't love variety in what is usually given to you? I would very much like to explore a gay KISA character. I apologize if I am rambling some or not making much sense as I've stated before I'm still taking steps to play m/m romances more often to explore them and get out of my comfort zone a bit more.

 

Nice weather we have today.

 

Yes quite, slight chill but it does kill the bugs. *sips hot tea*

[eyezonlyii]

A KISA is important to me for these reasons:

 

Physicality

A knight, as usually depicted is strong and powerful. He physically represents the idea of masculinity. The easiest way to depict a man as not "masculine" is to have him more slight in figure. This is also the reason why there aren't usually two imposing male leads in a movie, especially when one of those roles in an antagonist

(see Leonidas vs Xerxes in 300)

 

Presence

Related to the above post, a non heterosexual male character will have usually have substantially diminished visibility. Not only in terms of time displayed, but also in how they are displayed. They will often be demure if a protagonst, or sniveling if an antagonist, or just generally not assertive, and no one will take them seriously. 

 

Morality

The bread and butter of the KISA. As has been discussed a few times already, most nonhet males in media are of the morally grey variety, or at least less upstanding than their straight heroic brethren...which brings me to my last point:

 

Familiarity

Knights are part of a brotherhood. It may not be an actual roundtable or what have you, but the thing about a knight is there are people wiling to stand for, with, and by him. Often, if portrayed, he will have a command position, be generally respected and loved by his associates and even the community at large. A nonhet male character usually does not get these things. And this is the one that probably hits closest to home for many young men out there who are looking for this type of representation me. 

 

Sure a played three sports in high school, and was raised in a devoutly Christian home, but points two and especially four were lacking growing up. I didn't become assertive until my first year of college (it wasn't until junior year of high school that I didn't think I was hideous), and while I was on the various teams, I knew I was an outsider, because the unconscious homoerotic things that young men do, weren't unconscious to me, I picked up on them all, and so I withdrew, because back then (even though it hasn't even been 10 years since then, we've come a long way baby) it just wasn't safe (mostly emotionally/socially).

 

And now I have my Fiance who is ALL of these things, and I just...ok this has gone on too long. 

[Grieving Natashina]

If you don't mind me asking, what orientation do you identify as, eye?  If you mentioned it, I probably missed it.

[veeia]

I'm out of likes, but I'd thumb the hell out of that post, eye. Lovely. 

[eyezonlyii]

If you don't mind me asking, what orientation do you identify as, eye?  If you mentioned it, I probably missed it.

No problem. I am a cis-homosexual male, who believes sexuality is fluid in theory, but personally has been very stationary. I can find women attractive, but I'm not attracted to them.

[Grieving Natashina]

No problem. I am a cis-homosexual male, who believes sexuality is fluid in theory, but personally has been very stationary. I can find women attractive, but I'm not attracted to them.

Ah, okay very cool.  

 

I'm a cis-gender lady that's 30-mumble.  I'm bisexual, but I've usually gotten along better with men than with women.  A lot of it is due to my geekier interests.  Growing up, I didn't know a lot of girls that were into Dr. Demento, video games and D&D.

 

I fell in love with a wonderful man, and I've been with him 11 years as of this coming Saturday.  We've been married for over 8 years now.  I have had women that I loved very much, one of whom managed to crush my heart into fine paste.  I also believe that sexuality can be fluid.

 

If you're interested in some not-so-light reading about sexual fluidity, you might like this:

 

http://ares.southern...alityThesis.pdf

[eyezonlyii]

I'm out of likes, but I'd thumb the hell out of that post, eye. Lovely. 

Aww, thank you. If you can't tell, this is a passion of mine, and has only grown stronger the older I get, because now I know that there are people who want these stories told as well. 

I know I can write, I'm pretty good at it, but it's daunting to think about putting in that much effort into something like this.

[HeyCal]

I just want a buff, noble and kind man to sweep my male pc off his feet and carry him home into their castle. Amazing facial hair not required but enjoyed.