7143 réponses à ce sujet

[Grieving Natashina]

Bad girls..toot toot, beep beep.  Yes, I've had that song stuck in my head all bloody night.  

[DeN DarK]

...You're serious.  Okay.

 

The majority of the cast isn't LGBT.  It looks pretty split down the middle, with one extra bisexual character. If you exclude the advisers, we have one bisexual male, one lesbian, and one gay guy.  Cole is a special case; Varric is straight; Cass is straight; Vivenne is straight.   Yep, that's a real majority going on there.  

 

It isn't very real if it is split down the middle becouse in every country you still don't have 50/50 gay/straight. 

 

Sorry, but if one extra LGBT LI is too much, maybe this isn't the series for you.  We aren't trying to steal all the candy in your dish.

 

I hope i can decide for myself for me this series or not

 

Please, be respectful and don't assume that just because it's a LGBT orientation thread that we're asking for more options.  

 

And there do you see disrespect? You have yours preferences and i have mine. I think equality of gay/straight characters must not be first concern then you develop a game. And gay options in DA2 feels like very much added for LGBT not for sake of the making of plot or feeling of reality.

 

As for DA:I i try read about characters and plot as little as possible and just hope it will be different with DA2 in that regard.

[RevilFox]

I actually hope Vivi is a straight up lesbian. I'd love to see a gay companion that isn't interested in the PC. 

 

 

As to the question that was raised before about what characters caught our attention...obviously I'm going to say Jack. And Aeryn Sun from Farscape. I really like women who are strong, confident, aggressive, and not at all shy about going after what they want. I said this earlier in the thread, but that scene where Jack punches M!Shep in the face and then grabs him and kisses him? I want that.

 

Unfortunately, I don't really have a lot of examples of this kind of character, because it's very rare to find one that's not simply evil or cartoonishly over the top. 

[WildOrchid]

in DA2 feels like very much added for LGBT not for sake of the making of plot or feeling of reality.

 

Lol.

This applies to straight characters, for the sake of straight people.

Besides, you still got to romance ladies. What's the problem really?

[RevilFox]

It isn't very real if it is split down the middle becouse in every country you still don't have 50/50 gay/straight. 

 

This argument doesn't actually work though, because the small number of people you end up with in your party doesn't, and isn't meant to, be a faithful representation of the population of the world. Just like if you went around and asked 10 random people what their sexual orientation is, you're going to get wildly different answers. Ask in Provincetown MA and you'll likely get 90% gay males. That doesn't mean 90% of all males are gay. 

[Grieving Natashina]

Um, last time I checked, this was a fantasy game.  And last time I checked, fantasy games are free to divorce themselves from reality.  This includes statistics in the real world.  

 

If you can handle the following:

 

1) Dragons

2) Elves

3) Darkspawn

4) Magic

5) Spirits

6) Qunari

7) Underground dwarves

8) Demons raining from the sky

9) The undead

 

 

Then why is having a few extra non-straight characters your breaking point?   See, unlike everything else I just listed, LGBT folks actually exist.  Does that bother you so much?  If so, you might want to do some serious soul searching and ask yourself why.

 

Well, we're going to have a big ol' bunch of non-straight characters in this game, so if you consider that like DA2, you are probably going to be uncomfortable and put out.  However, please be sure to tell David Gaider and Mike Laidlaw how having gay characters breaks your suspension of disbelief.  They could use the laugh.

 

Remember, there's already two bisexual characters, a gay character and a lesbian character.  That's as many LGBT characters as there was in DA2.  Again, spooky and scary stuff. 

 

Finally, I'm glad to hear you have a strong opinion, but coming in here to tell us to knock it off is very damned rude.  I appreciate that you don't want this, but be respectful to others.  Start your own thread, but please leave this one alone.  No one is bothering you, and you didn't have to click on it.  

[Semyaza82]

 You have yours preferences and i have mine. I think equality of gay/straight characters must not be first concern then you develop a game. And gay options in DA2 feels like very much added for LGBT not for sake of the making of plot or feeling of reality.

 

As for DA:I i try read about characters and plot as little as possible and just hope it will be different with DA2 in that regard.

   I don't think anyone has said that it should be the first concern. The first concern is making a good game, but why is that diminished by also adding LGBT characters? I don't agree with your take on DA2, but even if you are right - why would the fact something was added for LGBT players (or straight players who enjoy it as well) be a problem?

   I understand you are not trying to offend anyone and that debating in a second language is difficult, but you seem to be asking that LGBT characters just not exist in the game. Why is it a problem to simply not play the gay romances if they bother you?

[Grieving Natashina]

We're spooky, you see.  Our very existence strikes terror in the very hearts of men.  Our presence on this mortal coil is horrifying enough.  We might...say hello to you.  We might ask how you day was.   HORROR I say.  I know I can't sleep at night because the LGBT COMMUNITY LIKES TO PLAY GAMES AND DARE ASK FOR SOME REPRESENTATION.

 

<dun dun DUN!>

 

Translation: Hell if I know.  I'm just getting tired and kinda slap-happy.  

 

To anyone that's "worried" about this: Look, I doubt the not-scary gay Tevinter mage is going to hit on you first in this game.  You'll be safe, I promise.  Just don't hit the heart button. 

 

Also, if you ever want a tip on how to deal with an uncomfortable compliment, me or perhaps one of the other women in the thread would gladly help you out.  See, this happens to us all the time...

[Roamingmachine]

To this post i want to add one thing. 

 

I'm not against gay character but i don't think it is really right thing then majority of companions are gay or bi. It wasn't so in DA:O. 

In DA:2 i was not comfortable then in dialogs with his crew my male character always have option to gay-romance someone.

It is not realistic - not in real world, not in world of Thedas. Not half of the man are gay, then thy it is so in hero company? 

 

I mean, it is ok to be gay and be open about it. But majority of gamers here is still straight in it is not very interesting to play gay-romance dream added for gay community approval. When devs try to add this options just for equality it isn't looking real. Maybe it is still possible (i think it isn't but maybe in next game) add some slider/checkbox to game where you can choose if u want to have few gay romance options or many of them. 

 

PS. Sorry for my english. Obviously im not native speaker. Becouse of that some of my replies may sound like offencive but really it isn't. I just try to express my concerns with my limited vocabulary.  

 

 

In a perfect world, nobody would bat an eye at two guys or gals kissing and the sexual orientation of fictional characters would be a non-issue. This is not a perfect world. In this world,  diffrent is pushed to the side, in to obscurity and "haha, what a a funny quirk but he'll outgrow it" territory unless constant, concentrated and LOUD effort is made to show that

a ) we exist and

b ) our existance changes nothing for you.

That's why when an effort is made in fiction to present the rainbow spectrum of sexuality it's going to be exaggerated. If a straight player feels offended by the mere PRESENCE of gay/bi romances in a game then i think that player really needs to play through the game, experience the content and maybe find out that diffrent sexual orientations are no big deal for someone secure in theirs.

[DeN DarK]

   I can see why it might seem a little jarring in DA:2 that all the romance options are bisexual (though personally i felt it made sense for the characters). That said, if you didn't want to romance them you didn't have to do so. I don't see why having an option available that isn't forced on you should be a problem. As a gay man a huge number of games i play have my character flirting with women whether I want them to or not, and while I would like more options I'm not offended by it.

 

   I don't think they will ever add a slider/checkbox for gay romance - or at least I hope they don't. While it in no way affects me how anyone else plays a game having the option to click a button and make gay characters suddenly not gay (or at least in the closet) would bother me on principle. Hell even if they had the same option to turn off straight romances it would bother me. 

 

Thank you. I think you are the only person in this thread who wasn't offended by mine reply and didn't try to make fun of me. 

It is true what i didn't forced to romance anyone (gay or not) but in certain cases even option feel very artificial. Not real. I don't care how much straight or gay choices hero have if it is feels natural. But it must have some explanation. You know - like if you meet some gay society and try to help them it is no wonder if all your companions is gay. And if you with some holy knights it is no wonder if they all straight or asexual. 

 

About checkbox - i mean maybe then you create character you can choose gay or straight and if you are straight you don't have so many options with gay flirting couse you don't need them (and vise versa ofcource). You can have some options still in case of solving quests. 

[KaiserShep]

 And gay options in DA2 feels like very much added for LGBT not for sake of the making of plot or feeling of reality.

 

Couldn't this basically be said of just about all the romances? None of them are integral to the plot anyway. As for reality, that's sort of abstract. If anything, the bigger issue is reactivity. Characters that have their own agency and can't be so easily convinced or bribed with gifts to abandon their principles matters more than whatever proportion of hetero/bi/gay we think should exist in the game universe's small population of central characters.

[Grieving Natashina]

Look, I guess I have little patience for this due to hearing folks wanting a gay toggle for the last 4 sodding years.   I don't want to have a toggle that magically makes everyone gay or straight.  Life is full of diversity and while this is fantasy, it would be a disservice to the art of video games to leave out that much of the human experience.

 

The devs consider a gay toggle discrimination, for good reason.  Do you want a minority/majority toggle for skin tone, so you don't have to look at races that make you uncomfortable?   What about kids?  A lot of folks don't like kids in RPGs and would rather toggle it off.   

 

Are you beginning to see how stupid that sounds? It's just like that for the LGBT community.

 

This is the last time I'm bringing this up, because I like this thread and I don't want to see it get shut down because of a stupid toggle debate.  This isn't about whether or not the LGBT community of Thedas is accurate to our world.  This isn't about you being uncomfortable because they are LGBT characters and you having trouble handling it. 

 

This is about requesting a type of romance for gay/lesbian characters.  That's it.  If you think it's wrong, if you want your toggle, then start a thread for it.  Quit derailing this thread.  If you want a gay romance, you're welcome to join us.  If not, please take your "ideas" elsewhere.

[Semyaza82]

Thank you. I think you are the only person in this thread who wasn't offended by mine reply and didn't try to make fun of me. 

It is true what i didn't forced to romance anyone (gay or not) but in certain cases even option feel very artificial. Not real. I don't care how much straight or gay choices hero have if it is feels natural. But it must have some explanation. You know - like if you meet some gay society and try to help them it is no wonder if all your companions is gay. And if you with some holy knights it is no wonder if they all straight or asexual. 

 

About checkbox - i mean maybe then you create character you can choose gay or straight and if you are straight you don't have so many options with gay flirting couse you don't need them (and vise versa ofcource). You can have some options still in case of solving quests. 

   Personally I think that as the player you should be able to flirt with all your companions - some of them will not be interested and will tell you so, but hey getting shot down now and again would add to realism

   On a more serious note, the desire for some kind of explanation. Put simply, the explanation is that LGBT exist in all walks of life. There is no reason why most characters couldn't be LGBT unless there is a very specific plot reason why they are not. Take Cullen for example, the character is straight. In DA:O we see him flirting (in a cute nervous sort of way) with the female mage - something he doesn't do with a male. He is not straight because he is a Templar, he is not straight because he is a warrior. He is just straight. The same thing applies to gay characters.

  If every character in the game were gay I could see that being a problem, but they aren't. Perhaps the amount of LGBT people in your party is a higher percentage than found in the population at large but as RevilFox said above, the party is not meant to be a representative of the make up of the society of Thedas. We have 3 mages as companions in DA:I, a full third of the companions - that doesn't mean that 1/3 of Thedas is meant to be mages.

[DeN DarK]

We're spooky...

Natashina - i think you full of predjudjement. You write third answer how i'm scared of gay people. I'm really not. Try not to be so scared of offence and this world will be so much better for you. I think you try to be rude and make laught of me - but i didn't mean to offend you and tell you about it one more time. 

 

 

In a perfect world, nobody would bat an eye at two guys or gals kissing and the sexual orientation of fictional characters would be a non-issue. This is not a perfect world. In this world,  diffrent is pushed to the side, in to obscurity and "haha, what a a funny quirk but he'll outgrow it" territory unless constant, concentrated and LOUD effort is made to show that

a ) we exist and

b ) our existance changes nothing for you.

That's why when an effort is made in fiction to present the rainbow spectrum of sexuality it's going to be exaggerated. If a straight player feels offended by the mere PRESENCE of gay/bi romances in a game then i think that player really needs to play through the game, experience the content and maybe find out that diffrent sexual orientations are no big deal for someone secure in theirs.

 

I have no doubt what gay people exist and perfectly comfortable with that they may kissing on the streets - i don't care ).  I think people here pictures their worst fears in me and becouse of that they felling so offended. 

But it is really exaggerated effort in this game to show how majotiry MUST be ok with that. And i don't mind having some gay options. But it must be explainable. In ancient greece gay romance was perfectly normal and if in this setting it will be so - i can understand why is so much gay companions. But this setting is different.

 

 

This argument doesn't actually work though, because the small number of people you end up with in your party doesn't, and isn't meant to, be a faithful representation of the population of the world. Just like if you went around and asked 10 random people what their sexual orientation is, you're going to get wildly different answers. Ask in Provincetown MA and you'll likely get 90% gay males. That doesn't mean 90% of all males are gay. 

 

True. But it is mine argument. If you take 10 random man from the gay-bar you have very big chance to have 10 from 10. But in most cases then you take random people from all world you can have 0 from 10 i think. It didn't mean gay don't exist. But they rare birds. It is like with voting. You have party A and B. Most people voted for party A. Let's say 90%. And some people voted for party B - 10%. Both on logic of this game both parties must have 50/50 representation in goverment just becouse they exist.

And by logic of many persons in this thread if you try discuss it - you worse-than-nazi, gay-hating blind evil stupid homophobic man. Hello, Natashina.

 

But did hero of the DA2 or DA:I take people just to represent their sex-views? No. He have random persons from all Thedas. And still have very huge percentage of gays and bisexuals. Maybe then devs must add this to setting. Use as example ancient greece, add official gay marriges, etc. But they try to seat on both chairs at once. They want dark ages or medieval-fantasy setting with hatred and oppresion and want to add modern views on sexual live there. It isn't very true.

 

   I don't think anyone has said that it should be the first concern. The first concern is making a good game, but why is that diminished by also adding LGBT characters? I don't agree with your take on DA2, but even if you are right - why would the fact something was added for LGBT players (or straight players who enjoy it as well) be a problem?

   I understand you are not trying to offend anyone and that debating in a second language is difficult, but you seem to be asking that LGBT characters just not exist in the game. Why is it a problem to simply not play the gay romances if they bother you?

 

It is change of my words. Game diminished not by existing of LGBT characters but of they quantity. I don't ask to delete them. Just ask to make it more trustworthy. And in DA it is like almost every person is bi, some are gay, and some is straight. But it isn't truly so and it is very artificial.

[Grieving Natashina]

Try to picture me honestly and seriously saying this to you:

 

"I don't like the people from your ethnic group.  There should be a toggle in Dragon Age, because people from that group make me uncomfortable.  They are a minority in the real world, so why should have much representation?  Wait, why are you offended?  I only want to make sure I can have toggle so I don't have to see your ethnic group.  What's the big deal?"  

 

Wouldn't you find that hurtful and offensive?

 

Yes, I was poking at you a little bit, and I apologize for that.  Still, I really want you to try to step into our shoes for a minute.  

 

You'd be amazed at how many people aren't straight in this world.  Bisexuals in particular tend to stay in the closet, even around close friends and family.  We tend to get tired of being told that we're "just going through a phase," or we're "really gay and don't admit it" or we're "just trying to attract the opposite sex" or we're "just greedy" or my all-time favorite, "you're just lazy."  

[WildOrchid]

Natashina - i think you full of predjudjement. You write third answer how i'm scared of gay people. I'm really not. Try not to be so scared of offence and this world will be so much better for you. I think you try to be rude and make laught of me - but i didn't mean to offend you and tell you about it one more time. 

 

[Grieving Natashina]

To be fair, it doesn't always translate well into text.  And he did mention that English was a second language.

[WildOrchid]

You'd be amazed at how many people aren't straight in this world.  Bisexuals in particular tend to stay in the closet, even around close friends and family.  We tend to get tired of being told that we're "just going through a phase," or we're "really gay and don't admit it" or we're "just trying to attract the opposite sex" or we're "just greedy" or my all-time favorite, "you're just lazy."  

 

Gay people too. In fact, anyone that isn't straight.

[KaiserShep]

What about kids?  A lot of folks don't like kids in RPGs and would rather toggle it off.  

 

Man, I wish this toggle existed in movie theaters

[Grieving Natashina]

Gay people too. In fact, anyone that isn't straight.

True enough.  And then there is our transsexual brothers and sisters.  My heart goes out to them.   Talk about a world of misunderstanding that's out there when it comes to them.

 

 

Man, I wish this toggle existed in movie theaters 

Okay, me too.  Especially when parents think it's a good idea to take their 6 year old to R-rated movies.

[DeN DarK]

This is about requesting a type of romance for gay/lesbian characters.  That's it.  If you think it's wrong, if you want your toggle, then start a thread for it.  Quit derailing this thread.  If you want a gay romance, you're welcome to join us.  If not, please take your "ideas" elsewhere.

 

Let me explain. This is thread. This is actually discussible - people talk here and discuss things. And it is not yours. Still you try to make me go away one time after another. Who do you think you are? You just try shut me up becouse you don't like my opinion. Maybe you need to start you own thread about cleansing this forum from all people who dare don't agree with you? Anyway your "ideas" where i must go - is not my concern. Go talk in another thread yourself if you don't like this.

[WildOrchid]

Let me explain. This is thread. This is actually discussible - people talk here and discuss things. And it is not yours. Still you try to make me go away one time after another. Who do you think you are? You just try shut me up becouse you don't like my opinion. Maybe you need to start you own thread about cleansing this forum from all people who dare don't agree with you? Anyway your "ideas" where i must go - is not my concern. Go talk in another thread yourself if you don't like this.

 

Do you realize that all of your posts here are pretty much insulting to us or na?

[Grieving Natashina]

 

Let me explain. This is thread. This is actually discussible - people talk here and discuss things. And it is not yours. Still you try to make me go away one time after another. Who do you think you are? You just try shut me up becouse you don't like my opinion. Maybe you need to start you own thread about cleansing this forum from all people who dare don't agree with you? Anyway your "ideas" where i must go - is not my concern. Go talk in another thread yourself if you don't like this.

 

 

That's because asking for a toggle is off-topic.  I'm asking you nicely.  Please stop derailing the thread.  It isn't here to discuss toggles.  It isn't here to discuss why you're wanting less LGBT representation.  It's to ask for a LGBT romance archetype for DA4 and beyond.   Yes, I'm asking you to either stay on topic (which toggles is not) or leave.  I'm here to discuss the topic with like minded people.  I've been here for quite some time, thanks.  

[WildOrchid]

Reminds me of this interview from Russians, asking Cameron for a gay toggle. *shudders*

[SardaukarElite]

I'm not against gay character but i don't think it is really right thing then majority of companions are gay or bi. It wasn't so in DA:O.

 

DA:O had four romanceable characters, but if you wanted to romance a character with a character of the same gender you had one option, one is not a choice. DA2 also four romances in total, but they opened them up to everyone and gave everyone a choice. Inquisition has more romance options, but they aren't all bisexual because they don't all need to be to give everyone a choice.

 

Yes it's a bit odd for everyone to be bisexual - though entirely possibly because probability is cool like that - but it was a design choice to make the most of the resources they had.

 

Of course this discussion isn't actually asking for there to be more gays than straights, it is asking for a particular kind of gay character and more varied gay characters, so I'm not sure why you've come here to say that.

 

 

In DA:2 i was not comfortable then in dialogs with his crew my male character always have option to gay-romance someone.

 

Maybe you need to think about why that makes you so uncomfortable.

 

Everyone else, that's a drink.