7155 réponses à ce sujet

[JadePrince]

 

Also, I have an honest question for everyone, do you think Bioware has looked at this thread and actually considered what we have said and wanted? Someone's said this is when they are developing the next game and I just really REALLY want a companion or LI like this for the next game. 

 

 

The good news is that I know at least Allan is aware of this desire. It's been brought up before in a thread he created to ask about unfortunate romance tropes. People there brought up the pattern of all prince charming/KISA/noble knight/warriors being only straight, and expressed interest in seeing that trope applied instead to gay/bi LIs. Seems like, to me, it's not out of the realm of possibility. Why would Allan have made that thread if he wasn't interested in taking what he learned there back to the team? It's not a guarantee it'll happen, but I bet you that the team is (or will be) aware that it's something we want.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

The good news is that I know at least Allan is aware of this desire. It's been brought up before in a thread he created to ask about unfortunate romance tropes. People there brought up the pattern of all prince charming/KISA/noble knight/warriors being only straight, and expressed interest in seeing that trope applied instead to gay/bi LIs. Seems like, to me, it's not out of the realm of possibility. Why would Allan have made that thread if he wasn't interested in taking what he learned there back to the team? It's not a guarantee it'll happen, but I bet you that the team is (or will be) aware that it's something we want.

Yeah, chances are Allan told Bioware all the gay and bi desires from that thread. Probably the only ones he brought up. 

[eyezonlyii]

Yeah, chances are Allan told Bioware all the gay and bi desires from that thread. Probably the only ones he brought up. 

I'm getting a dismissive tone from this post. Is that accurate? If so, why? As has been stated before, straight romances have historically been able to run the gamut of characterization, however, queer romances have only arrived on the scene and are thus far less diverse.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

I'm getting a dismissive tone from this post. Is that accurate? If so, why? As has been stated before, straight romances have historically been able to run the gamut of characterization, however, queer romances have only arrived on the scene and are thus far less diverse.

Yes, that is accurate. And because unless it involved homosexuals or bisexuals specifically, Allan never showed much attention to it and seemed dismissive of them. Other sexualities, even other non-heterosexual ones, and lifestyles that were talked about he barely gave a second glance at while with homosexual and bisexual ones he was involved in pages of discussion. 

[Sully13]

Ah glad my pessimisim was wrong. 

[eyezonlyii]

Yes, that is accurate. And because unless it involved homosexuals or bisexuals specifically, Allan never showed much attention to it and seemed dismissive of them. Other sexualities, even other non-heterosexual ones, and lifestyles that were talked about he barely gave a second glance at while with homosexual and bisexual ones he was involved in pages of discussion. 

Well, it could be a lack of understanding of the other sexualities, or maybe there's being more thought put into how to define one of the more nuanced orientations. I can say for me personally, I see no functional difference between bisexual and pansexual as for me, sexuality is determined by the physical. To clarify, sex and gender are two different things to me. If I see a man who fits my type, I'll be attracted to him, if he then informs me that he identifies as something other than male, then physically I would still be attracted to him, but emotionally/romantically, as far as I can say now, I would probably not pursue anything further.

 

Long story short, the more nuanced queer orientations would require some very distinct dialogue, which I'm not opposed to at all, but could come off as particularly clunky or anachronistic. I hate the "wait your turn" mentality in issues like this, so I'm not going there. What I am saying is that this is a relatively new development for everyone, so it's easier for writers to start with what they're more comfortable with and work from there.  

[Hanako Ikezawa]

Well, it could be a lack of understanding of the other sexualities, or maybe there's being more thought put into how to define one of the more nuanced orientations. I can say for me personally, I see no functional difference between bisexual and pansexual as for me, sexuality is determined by the physical. To clarify, sex and gender are two different things to me. If I see a man who fits my type, I'll be attracted to him, if he then informs me that he identifies as something other than male, then physically I would still be attracted to him, but emotionally/romantically, as far as I can say now, I would probably not pursue anything further.

 

Long story short, the more nuanced queer orientations would require some very distinct dialogue, which I'm not opposed to at all, but could come off as particularly clunky or anachronistic. I hate the "wait your turn" mentality in issues like this, so I'm not going there. What I am saying is that this is a relatively new development for everyone, so it's easier for writers to start with what they're more comfortable with and work from there.  

Then why make the thread in the first place? Or why not just make it about "unfortunate bisexual or homosexual romance tropes" since those were the only ones he seems to care about? 

[eyezonlyii]

Then why make the thread in the first place? Or why not just make it about "unfortunate bisexual or homosexual romance tropes" since those were the only ones he seems to care about? 

I don't know what thread you are referring to, so I cannot say.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

I don't know what thread you are referring to, so I cannot say.

http://forum.bioware...opesarchetypes/

[JadePrince]

Kallen, seriously. Please please make your own thread to air your own grievances there. I know you have valid things to talk about but this isn't the right place for it.  I'm trying really hard not to be rude or combative, but I really like this thread and your off-topic passive aggressive comments are bringing a lot of negativity into it. Especially right after we had to deal with off-topic "gay toggle" stuff and were trying to steer things back to the KISA discussion...

 

If anyone thinks I'm out of line, I apologize. I'm just feeling frustrated, trying to enjoy a friendly thread where people were at least mostly being cool to eachother. 

[daveliam]

Then why make the thread in the first place? Or why not just make it about "unfortunate bisexual or homosexual romance tropes" since those were the only ones he seems to care about? 

 

This is factually incorrect.  Look at the very first post in that thread, made by Allan himself.  It lists over a dozen tropes, some of which cover gender and sexuality of many types.  In fact, right there in the first post, he acknowledges one of the most important things that you keep asking for:  the fact that sex is tied to romance.  And on top of it, it's not tied to any gender or sexuality specifically, also something that is important to you.  He acknowledges one of your biggest requests and yet you still slam him and talk poorly about him (including misrepresenting the truth).

 

Look, I get that you are feeling like people aren't listening to you, but frankly, your approach lately has contributed to that.  I've yet to see you bring these issues up in the 'straight romance threads'.  In fact, there's one on the main Feedbacks page now and, while you did contribute your opinion that it should be 2/4/2 instead of 4/2/2, you did not come at the OP with the same level of vitriol that you seem to reserve to LGBT threads.  I'm not sure what's going on, but I'm starting to not appreciate the barrage of passive aggressive barbs and putdowns.  I was very close to PM'ing you last week to help you figure out how to word a thread that would represent what you are hoping to see in the game, but then you went on another diatribe against LGBT plots and stories and I decided that I'm not willing to help you if you are going to constantly disparage me and my opinions. 

 

ETA:  Like JadePrince, I apologize if this post was out of line. 

[Sully13]

Ok im thinking of drawing up out Gay lesbian Knight any ideas?

[Chernaya]

From what I've seen Allan does care about our opinions and tries to always take them into consideration, but he's also openly admitted that he's unlearned about many parts of these issues and therefore he probably feels more comfortable talking about what he feels he does know. I just think he's being kinda misunderstood here and feel the need to stick up for him because I've never seen him being anything but supportive and nice towards the posters in this forum. 

[daveliam]

Anyway, to bring it back to the topic at hand and maybe lighten things up, anyone want to buy me a stocking stuffer this holiday season?

 

http://www.dreamspin...roducts_id=2268

[Sully13]

Oh my poor inocent brain. but those liik like Mills & Boons stuff.

[Hellion Rex]

Anyway, to bring it back to the topic at hand and maybe lighten things up, anyone want to buy me a stocking stuffer this holiday season?

 

http://www.dreamspin...roducts_id=2268

I'm embarrased to say I've read that.

[JadePrince]

I think it's about time we got a non-straight King Arthur-type. Anyone else watch that show Merlin and desperately hope they'd be brave enough to actually go there with it? I wouldn't mind a gay/bi KISA love interest based on Arthur from that show-- not necessarily in looks, but he had a fun personality. Like... kind of a jerk at first and self-centered, but when the chips were down, super loyal and gentle and really cared about his country and his people. 

[Hellion Rex]

Ok im thinking of drawing up out Gay lesbian Knight any ideas?

Hmmmm, just a normal knight in armor would be kinda cool. They don't have to necessarily be doing anything specific. For me at least, knowing that the drawing was intended to depict a gay or lesbian knight would be enough.

[veeia]

I've been trying to think of some of my favorite lady KISA types and I came up with two from comics. 

 

Batwoman:

Spoiler

Phyla-Vell:

 

Spoiler

Couldn't find a badass picture of her and her gf off the top of my head, but she's the bald lady in the picture. Her gf is named Moondragon and is also a badass becasue like Flemeth, she can turn into a dragon sometimes! Comcis!

  

 

 

 

Batwoman is especially interesting to me, because I think her story is about being denied the chance to be a KISA and saying "eff you, I am one". Her backstory was that she was in the military, which was all she had ever wanted to do with her life and she was on a path to climb high, but she refused to deny her sexuality and had to leave...leading her to a vigilante life, because it was a way for her to serve. So she's not a "Dark Knight" like Batman, who wants to work outside the law... she just has to. But even though this element informs her backstory, most of Kate's plots that are informed by her past come from her family's dynamics, not her sexuality (what I mean is that her stories aren't driven soley by the lesbian content, just...realistically informed by her experiences). Obviously this isn't something that could be copy-pasted into Thedas, but I thought it was an interesting example nonetheless.

 

Phyla is pretty cool because her girlfriend "dies" and she goes on an epic, no holds barred quest to get her back, including becoming the avatar of Death itself. It would be a lot cooler if they didn't both die later on, sigh. Tragicly dead lesbians, yuck. 

[daveliam]

I'm embarrased to say I've read that.

 

I hope you are prepared to share with the class, young man.

 

I think it's about time we got a non-straight King Arthur-type. Anyone else watch that show Merlin and desperately hope they'd be brave enough to actually go there with it? I wouldn't mind a gay/bi KISA love interest based on Arthur from that show-- not necessarily in looks, but he had a fun personality. Like... kind of a jerk at first and self-centered, but when the chips were down, super loyal and gentle and really cared about his country and his people. 

 

Yes to all of this.  Yes, yes, and yes.

 

 

 

 

I've been trying to think of some of my favorite lady KISA types and I came up with two from comics. 

 

Batwoman:

Spoiler

Phyla-Vell:

 

Spoiler

Couldn't find a badass picture of her and her gf off the top of my head, but she's the bald lady in the picture. She can also turn into a dragon sometimes! Comcis!  

 

 

 

Batwoman is especially interesting to me, because I think her story is about being denied the chance to be a KISA and saying "eff you, I am one". Her backstory was that she was in the military, which was all she had ever wanted to do with her life and she was on a path to climb high, but she refused to deny her sexuality and had to leave...leading her to a vigilante life, because it was a way for her to serve. So she's not a "Dark Knight" like Batman, who wants to work outside the law... she just has to. But even though this element informs her backstory, most of Kate's plots that are informed by her past come from her family's dynamics. Obviously this isn't something that could be copy-pasted into Thedas, but I thought it was an interesting example nonetheless.

 

 

I.O.U one 'like', veeia.  Batwoman's story is a good one!

[JadePrince]

 

Her backstory was that she was in the military, which was all she had ever wanted to do with her life and she was on a path to climb high, but she refused to deny her sexuality and had to leave...leading her to a vigilante life, because it was a way for her to serve. So she's not a "Dark Knight" like Batman, who wants to work outside the law... she just has to. But even though this element informs her backstory, most of Kate's plots that are informed by her past come from her family's dynamics. Obviously this isn't something that could be copy-pasted into Thedas, but I thought it was an interesting example nonetheless.

 

 

Oh wow, I'd heard Batwoman was gay, but I didn't know that was her backstory!! That's so interesting and relevant and sad and awesome! Is there a trade yet of her story? I don't really buy single issues, but I'd love to get a compilation volume!

[Hellion Rex]

 

I've been trying to think of some of my favorite lady KISA types and I came up with two from comics. 

 

Batwoman:

Spoiler

Phyla-Vell:

 

Spoiler

Couldn't find a badass picture of her and her gf off the top of my head, but she's the bald lady in the picture. Her gf is named Moondragon and is also a badass becasue like Flemeth, she can turn into a dragon sometimes! Comcis!

  

 

 

 

Batwoman is especially interesting to me, because I think her story is about being denied the chance to be a KISA and saying "eff you, I am one". Her backstory was that she was in the military, which was all she had ever wanted to do with her life and she was on a path to climb high, but she refused to deny her sexuality and had to leave...leading her to a vigilante life, because it was a way for her to serve. So she's not a "Dark Knight" like Batman, who wants to work outside the law... she just has to. But even though this element informs her backstory, most of Kate's plots that are informed by her past come from her family's dynamics, not her sexuality (what I mean is that her stories aren't driven soley by the lesbian content, just...realistically informed by her experiences). Obviously this isn't something that could be copy-pasted into Thedas, but I thought it was an interesting example nonetheless.

 

Phyla is pretty cool because her girlfriend "dies" and she goes on an epic, no holds barred quest to get her back, including becoming the avatar of Death itself. It would be a lot cooler if they didn't both die later on, sigh. Tragicly dead lesbians, yuck. 

 

WAIT. WHAT?!?!?! BATWOMAN IS GAY!?!?

I NEVER KNEW!

 

THAT IS SO EFFING AWESOME!!!

[veeia]

re: Trades. Yes!

 

Batwoman: Elegy.  is a good one. 

[eyezonlyii]

Why am I still out of likes?

[Sully13]

 

I've been trying to think of some of my favorite lady KISA types and I came up with two from comics. 

 

Batwoman:

Spoiler

Phyla-Vell:

 

Spoiler

Couldn't find a badass picture of her and her gf off the top of my head, but she's the bald lady in the picture. Her gf is named Moondragon and is also a badass becasue like Flemeth, she can turn into a dragon sometimes! Comcis!

  

 

 

 

Batwoman is especially interesting to me, because I think her story is about being denied the chance to be a KISA and saying "eff you, I am one". Her backstory was that she was in the military, which was all she had ever wanted to do with her life and she was on a path to climb high, but she refused to deny her sexuality and had to leave...leading her to a vigilante life, because it was a way for her to serve. So she's not a "Dark Knight" like Batman, who wants to work outside the law... she just has to. But even though this element informs her backstory, most of Kate's plots that are informed by her past come from her family's dynamics, not her sexuality (what I mean is that her stories aren't driven soley by the lesbian content, just...realistically informed by her experiences). Obviously this isn't something that could be copy-pasted into Thedas, but I thought it was an interesting example nonetheless.

 

Oh there are tons more. heck Kitty pryde was supposed to be in a lesbian relationship according to Claremont till Marvel got cold feet and Shacked her whit Colosus. 

theres Moon Dragon

Karma (1st Homosexual X-man)

loads more.

anyhoo im looking for sugestions if anyone is interested.