7143 réponses à ce sujet

[Zjarcal]

What's this about Fenris being raped by Danrius? While that would explain Fenris' behavior, I don't remember it ever being implied in the game.

 

I believe you only find out about this if you romance him with a male character.

[Who Knows]

Dorian is too much of an outcast to be an example of the trope.

[sandalisthemaker]

Dorian is a mage, not a warrior. He does seem to have noble goals, though. 

 

Dorian is in a unique spot right now until we know more.  I am glad to have him as a gay LI though.

[syllogi]

I'm for there being diverse representation, unless it comes at the cost of representation of others, in which case I can't support it. 

 

I'd say at least 90 to 95 percent of all media representation of sexuality is heterosexual, so what exactly would be the harm in having one video game where they make the "knight in shining armor" type a gay man or lesbian woman? 

[Semyaza82]

he's also a squishy mage

Looks damn buff to me

[witchknights]

What's this about Fenris being raped by Danrius? While that would explain Fenris' behavior, I don't remember it ever being implied in the game.

There's that "Oh, are you jealous?/the boy is quite talented, isn't he?" line and its creepy sexual assault/rape undertones, too.

[Sylvianus]

Okay, so necessarily a warrior to fit the trope. What else it requires ? 

[Hazegurl]

I would love to romance a Rhaeger Targaryen type.  A handsome, powerful, noble prince, intelligent, great family line, tragedy awaiting us at the end. 

[Sylvianus]

Rhaegar Targaryen raped Lyanna, the sister of Ned Stark, and the love of Robert Baratheon. I doubt that it can been as being noble. 

[daveliam]

he's also a squishy mage

Dorian is too much of an outcast to be an example of the trope.

 

 

Yeah, I think he's not too far off, but these two points make it difficult for me to think that Dorian will fit into this category.  I seem him as more of a dashing, glib, charismatic type.  Like Robin Hood.  I want Richard the Lionheart, not Robin Hood.

[Sylvianus]

I just want to know why you feel that Alistair can be a white knight hero. He never striked me as such to me. A good guy, ( maybe like Dorian ) yes, but that's it; That's why I'm interested to see what people require to be considered as a white knight hero.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

That's what I thought as well. I didn't read it as sexual or a romantic kiss.

Yeah. It reminded me of the chaste kiss Cassandra gave Regalyan at the end of DotS, except Aveline's was on the lips whereas Cassandra's was on the cheek. 

 

 

I'd say at least 90 to 95 percent of all media representation of sexuality is heterosexual, so what exactly would be the harm in having one video game where they make the "knight in shining armor" type a gay man or lesbian woman? 

The harm would be if having this character along with other gay characters to make it more diverse makes it so that they can't show other orientations. There are others besides bisexual, heterosexual, homosexual, and pansexual. 

[Ryzaki]

Ah, I understand what you mean. We certainly haven't seen a character like this in Bioware game before, would be interesting. That reminds me, there is a mod for Baldur's Gate II for a gay Cleric or Paladin character, I don't remember how he was called though. Bioware should definitely take some ideas from modders as they seemed to have gotten there first.

 

I'm actually quite the opposite. I'm kind of sick of knights in armor we girls keep getting, so I would like someone like Bishop from NWN2 for a change, even though its unhealthy for our sanity and many people hate this type of character.

 

agreed.

 

I'd ship an actual villianmance so hard

[witchknights]

Looks damn buff to me

well, mages are squishy on principle, and not even tasteful, aesthetically pleasing sideboob can change that

[daveliam]

I just want to know why you feel that Alistair can be a white knight hero. He never striked me as such to me. A good guy, ( maybe like Dorian ) yes, but that's it; That's why I'm interested to see what people require to be considered as a white knight hero.

 

To me, Alistair is the epitome of the fantasy hero.  Humble origins.  Struggles in his past.  Joins a noble order of warriors.  Survives a devastating attack.  Rises to become a leader and, eventually, king.  Can marry the lady and live happily ever after.

 

He's a bit goofy, but his story arch can lead him to mature and become a devoted, caring, and protective partner for the Warden.  He can become a strong leader and becomes an outright hero.  All of this leads me to see him as the "white knight" type.  Again, it's not a perfect fit (he's a little goofy; there's some variation in how his personality can turn out), but it's really damned close in my opinion. 

[Lieutenant Kurin]

So... catching up, hey everyone!

Sandal, I am happy that you made this thread.  This has been something that I've wanted to see explored in media since my childhood.  I had the biggest crush on the prince from Sleeping Beauty as a kid and it's really been a "thing" of mine.

 

Unfortunately, in fantasy and science fiction, there are rarely gay characters like this.  I think you hit the nail on the head regarding the roguish gay character versus the heroic straight character.  Obviously it's a bit of a generalization, but I see the trend. 

 

I would love to see a gay knight in shining armor type in a future game.  I think that Gaider did a fantastic job with Julien and Nicolas.  He really hit the ball out of the park on that one.  They were masculine, heroic, warriors, and brothers-in-arms, who happened to be gay.  That's really what I want to see.  I don't want the whole storyline to be about them being gay.  Just characters in this vein who happen to be gay.

 

I've been waiting 30 years for this story to be told and I think that the DA team could really do it justice (ugh, Justice, no thanks).  I really hope that they take notice that this is something that some of their fans really, really want and I hope that there is one writer on the team who wants to tell that story.

 

Wait.....Is Theron going to be a m/m romance?

All we know now is both Theron and Lana (and any flirt ahead) will be playersexual flirt-ships. Specifically playersexual, by the way, 'bi' wasn't bandied about (and my dislike of BioWare Austin increases). Also, agree, agree and agree. 

 

...I honestly think part of the problem is the Dragon Age universe itself. Homosexual relationships are still considered at least "quirky" if not disapproved of in many Thedas societies. Gay marriage isn't recognized by the Chantry and probably not by the Stone either. Characters like Aveline and Donnic marry for love, so it's not like it's just a matter of political benefits and child bearing. Gaider has confirmed that homophobia exists in the universe (which makes sense, considering how the male PC can react to Zevran and Anders)

The universe is already at least somewhat exclusionary, even though it did not have to be.

Marriage is still mostly about childbearing, although, yes, love marriages are possible. And as people living in a homophobic world, if Thedas was free from that bias, I'm sure many would find the world fake and off-putting because it doesn't mesh with our worldview. So... yeah...

 

Oh, I agree with this wholeheartedly. I have a hard time not romancing Alistair because I'm a sucker for the noble, chivalrous characters and their romance tropes, and a lady knight akin to a bi/lesbian Joan D'arc would make my heart flutter. It's rare to see straight female warriors - I think the most prominent one is, what, Brienne of Tarth? - but I'd really like that, especially if it didn't fall into the manly lesbian stereotype.

I had my hopes up for Cas and got seriously heartbroken that she's straight. I spent a good weekend nursing a bottle of booze and listening to rolling in the deep and everything; very sad breakup mood, tragic really. I got such a huge crush on her.

Strong women certainly don't have to be 'butch' (Maker, how I hate that word). I'd like to see more strong bi/lesbian women too.

 

I'd say at least 90 to 95 percent of all media representation of sexuality is heterosexual, so what exactly would be the harm in having one video game where they make the "knight in shining armor" type a gay man or lesbian woman? 

Agreed. Especially because of the mixing of tropes would be better for straights too! Who says the next promiscuous male shouldn't be straight? Tons of stories fly by when we stick to certain tropes.

 

Worthwhile to point out that it's also too f***ing rare for a gay or even bi LI to talk about future families, or kids, and sometimes for bisexuals, the discussion will happen but only with the opposite gender LI. I mean can't Kaidan and I adopt? Doesn't surrogacy exist in the future?

 

Another knight - Carth from KotOR. Note that white knight LI's can also have major Carth syndrome.

[Semyaza82]

I just want to know why you feel that Alistair can be a white knight hero. He never striked me as such to me. A good guy, ( maybe like Dorian ) yes, but that's it; That's why I'm interested to see what people require to be considered as a white knight hero.

Have a look here Sylvianus - a pretty good definition of what people meant by the 'white knight' trope from the previous thread (that sort of spawned this one)

[daveliam]

I would also like to say that I'm out of likes.  We are too damned likeable today and now I can't like these awesome posts.  So, here's an imaginary like for all of those posts.

[Who Knows]

 

 

Marriage is still mostly about childbearing, although, yes, love marriages are possible. And as people living in a homophobic world, if Thedas was free from that bias, I'm sure many would find the world fake and off-putting because it doesn't mesh with our worldview. So... yeah...

There was little to no homophobia in Mass Effect. Considering Dragon Age is a fantasy rather than science fiction, you would think they would have even more room to make a less homophobic world.

[sandalisthemaker]

Okay, so necessarily a warrior to fit the trope. What else it requires ? 

 

The character doesn't have to be squeaky-clean good, but I'd like them to be closer to the lawful good camp. Duty and honor and such. Perhaps they have a strong moral code. 

 

I'd like for my PC to be the gray one who sometimes crosses the line and does questionable things...... with a nice guy boyfriend who serves as his moral compass, who crosses his arms and gives a quirk of the eyebrow or a slightly disapproving frown.  Someone who can be the strong one in the relationship sometimes and not just my PC all the time.  Someone who can be stoic and blush slightly when my PC does or says something outlandish and fabulous.

[DragonRacer]

Bioware: Makes more gay and bisexual characters than any other game developers. Still not enough for everybody

 

It's just a suggestion. It's not like the OP is demanding or showing anger/outrage about not having a specific archetype for an s/s romance. They're just thinking ahead to the next game and making a polite request as something for BioWare devs to think about while they're brainstorming. Your comment comes off as if non-straight players should just "be happy" with whatever is given to them and then shut up and sit down. A bit rude, if you ask me, but maybe you didn't mean it to come off as harshly as I read it.

 

And I'm a straight female, by the way, so I have literally no horse in this race, so... just sayin'.

 

As to the OP, I'm in total support. I know that I myself love the knight in shining armor archetype and enjoyed the heck out of Alistair's romance, and will definitely be trying Cullen's during one of my playthroughs, so I think it would be marvelous for you to be able to enjoy the same in the next game! I'd certainly make a gay character to explore that angle of the archetype, just like I'm looking forward to doing for DAI to see how Dorian's romance develops.

[Sylvianus]

Okay. Now I understand better what people would like to see with an LI, especially that now I can see why Alistair is considered as a white knight hero. Thanks for the answers. I can support the thread now and the OP.   Regardless of my curiosity, it is true that we haven't seen much this trope for gay characters ( according to what I read ), so I'm all for that in the future if possible. 

[AresKeith]

It's just a suggestion. It's not like the OP is demanding or showing anger/outrage about not having a specific archetype for an s/s romance. They're just thinking ahead to the next game and making a polite request as something for BioWare devs to think about while they're brainstorming. Your comment comes off as if non-straight players should just "be happy" with whatever is given to them and then shut up and sit down. A bit rude, if you ask me, but maybe you didn't mean it to come off as harshly as I read it.

 

He's a troll, just ignore him

[witchknights]

I just want to know why you feel that Alistair can be a white knight hero. He never striked me as such to me. A good guy, ( maybe like Dorian ) yes, but that's it; That's why I'm interested to see what people require to be considered as a white knight hero.

 

Ooh, I think Alistair has the whole package. Especially in his romance.

 

Mind you, a knight in shining armor doesn't need to be flawless, and Alistair is literally a 20 year old child, so most of his character flaws can be chalked to youthful immaturity.

 

He's noble and good; devoted to the people he loves and to the causes in which he believes; he is humble, despite his royal parent, and is always mindful of his origins, staying humble even if you make him king after hardening him; Joins an order of warriors and wholeheartedly believes in its honor, glory, and values.

 

He takes romance seriously, especially physical intimacy, and is a shameless romantic - the rose, wanting to wait until he's ready to commit to a sexual relationship, wanting to wait until the time is right. He's adorable and awkward and isn't too ashamed to admit his own inexperience. he adores the warden and is an enthusiastic, genuine supporter of her - too many of the (few) romances that have the girl-leading-guy dynamic have the dude resenting her leadership or stealing the show by act 3, which doesn't happen in his romance arc.

 

and he is ready to give up his life, if it means his lover survives. (oh boy, that ending made me cry. the words "sanest thing i've ever done" are the magical ticket to nonstop ugly sobbingtown)

[sandalisthemaker]

He's a troll, just ignore him

 

I'm not just a troll, I'm a FABULOUS troll.  

 

But I can be serious as well, and I am totally serious about this topic. 

 

Edit, woops you weren't talking about me.

 

I'm still a fabulous troll at times though.