7155 réponses à ce sujet

[karushna5]

Well, technically Bioware has done one in 2003 with Juhani from KOTOR. She is a woman who is attracted to women(in fact, she is Star Wars' first confirmed lesbian character) and is the Warrior class of that game. Sure she went to the dark side for a tiny bit before we meet her, but she didn't do anything in that time other than meditate in that grove.

 

Well she also turned some animals bad, but yeah she was sweet. "Romanced" her once, although I put her more like Fenris than Cassandra. She is actually pretty sweet, but it was bugged for me so I never got to play it other than see it on youtube.

[eyezonlyii]

I love Vivienne. Adore her actually. Her calling me dear put butterflies in my stomach and she is the first fictional character to really do that to me. But yes, I almost wish they would stop making these cool tough female characters because it is always, but not too tough she is still a girl just ashamed of that side of her/secret/ ashamed she isn't feminine enough. And she loves men, tough but never butch.

 

I feel like every strong female character in media is "Strong, but not butch"

the reason is more than likely because for the longest time, butch=lesbian because otherwise why would a feminine (read:true) woman not be interested a man? Therefore the only way to actually portray this woman as interested in women was to make her more like a man (butch). Eventually, guys then realized that two women into each other was super hot (because they really weren't interested in each other, they were just waiting on him). 

To edit down a long post, I think writers may think it would be difficult to portray a butch woman without succumbing to the make a man and swap the necessary giggly bits.

[leadintea]

I loved Cass's romantic side. She's basically my ideal woman. If she was a f/f option I would never experience another romance, tbh. 

 

I'm not sure what you mean by secret feminine side with Aveline though.

 

Her whole shyness thing with Donnic seemed like it was put in there to make her a softer character, despite the fact that she had a husband before and should be able to snag a man if she wanted to.

[eyezonlyii]

Haha, see, I didn't like that part of Viv but that mostly has to do with the whole black women always having to be stoic and taking care of themselves, never getting to express their feelings or be taken care of or let themselves be happy stuff that pops up so much of the time. She's a greeeeaat character, but I feel like they tried too hard to make her AWESOME and not enough time spent prioritizing her humanity.

 

...that's not to say she's not a very human character, just like. Idk if I'm articulating this well. She's a good character but she needed more room to breathe, imo. More content, maybe. 

I understand EXACTLY what you mean. Because it's actually the same with black males too. They're the super strong brutes who don't feel pain, don't need no book learnin' or speakin, and always have to hustle to make ends meet because dey so hawd.

[eyezonlyii]

Her whole shyness thing with Donnic seemed like it was put in there to make her a softer character, despite the fact that she had a husband before and should be able to snag a man if she wanted to.

maybe Wesley came onto her first? He did seem to have more of a hot head than she did. Also, it could be the fact that it had been awhile since the had too woo someone that she had forgotten how to read the signs. 

[karushna5]

Haha, see, I didn't like that part of Viv but that mostly has to do with the whole black women always having to be stoic and taking care of themselves, never getting to express their feelings or be taken care of or let themselves be happy stuff that pops up so much of the time. She's a greeeeaat character, but I feel like they tried too hard to make her AWESOME and not enough time spent prioritizing her humanity.

 

...that's not to say she's not a very human character, just like. Idk if I'm articulating this well. She's a good character but she needed more room to breathe, imo. More content, maybe. 

 

100% agree. I was dissapointed in her quest, I really wanted to soothe her more, hug her I don't know. I can't help but make her divine, even if I don't agree with her. I almost always felt her characterization was just out of reach. And really Vivienne is a super femme lady, I just wish at least one companion could be her shoulder. Because she was so stoic, there was less knowledge about her as a person, which is a bit of a shame. She seems almost as warm as she can be cold it would have been nice to explore that part of her more in depth.

[veeia]

Eh, okay well re: Aveline's feminine insecurity, that only came out in her banters with Isabella iirc, really, and I freaking hate everything about their early (and most of their tbh) banters, so perhaps I've blocked it all.   Fair enough. 

 

Re her awkwardness with Donnic, idk, that seemed like it came out of the fact that she doesn't actually have a softer side, so she had no idea what to do so she was completely out of her element. I mean it still has issues and I can see why it's hitting you there. 

[veeia]

100% agree. I was dissapointed in her quest, I really wanted to soothe her more, hug her I don't know. I can't help but make her divine, even if I don't agree with her. I almost always felt her characterization was just out of reach. And really Vivienne is a super femme lady, I just wish at least one companion could be her shoulder. Because she was so stoic, there was less knowledge about her as a person, which is a bit of a shame. She seems almost as warm as she can be cold it would have been nice to explore that part of her more in depth.

 

Yeah

 

It's like with Viv we were supposed to be all impressed she's triumphed so much externally, but I was just sitting there worried about her, because every step of her story led her to being more and more isolated and cut off. Poor Viv. She doesn't have to be 100% vulnerable or break down and cry or become your BFF just to like...be allowed to be vulnerable or needing other people at all. 

[leadintea]

maybe Wesley came onto her first? He did seem to have more of a hot head than she did. Also, it could be the fact that it had been awhile since the had too woo someone that she had forgotten how to read the signs. 

 

Yeah, it's possible that Wesley came onto her first, but I doubt that someone could forget how to read the signs in just a mere 4 years. With the way she handled everything and everyone in her life with such strength and resolve, I just feel that her sudden weakness in the face of something like romance was stereotypically feminine.

[eyezonlyii]

Yeah, it's possible that Wesley came onto her first, but I doubt that someone could forget how to read the signs in just a mere 4 years. With the way she handled everything and everyone in her life with such strength and resolve, I just feel that her sudden weakness in the face of something like romance was stereotypically feminine.

I choose to look at it as she just generally doesn't know how to express herself, which ironically is a more masculine trait than a feminine one.

[Grieving Natashina]

Alright, I have to log off for the night.  I can't, in good conscious, continue to read your posts if I can't like all of them.

 

Has anyone made a "take all of my likes" meme, yet?  I feel like it needs to have Nene Leekes in it. 

 

Everyone on this thread, I owe you all one like.  I can't promise I'll give them tomorrow when my like replenish because you'll probably be awesome again tomorrow.  Good stuff all around.

Night, sleep well.  

 

And this works for now:

 

Spoiler

[veeia]

The biggest problem I have with Aveline is how she and Isabela are pitted against each other because of their different presentations of femininity. Like, why can't they just respect each other quickly, instead of taking the entire dang game? If more of their banters had been about how Isabela is chaos and law breaking while Aveline is rigid and law upholding and less about how men see them, I'd have been a lot happier, haha.

Sure its believable. But why is it necessary? The opposite is believable too, and doesn't involve two strong willed women tearing eachother down over their femaleness

...I know I'm in the minority here on feeling that way, most folks seem to love them together, but I hated it...particularly how she treats Isa, altho they both throw some awful punches.

[eyezonlyii]

The biggest problem I have with Aveline is how she and Isabela are pitted against each other because of their different presentations of femininity. Like, why can't they just respect each other quickly, instead of taking the entire dang game? If more of their banters had been about how Isabela is chaos and law breaking while Aveline is rigid and law upholding and less about how men see them, I'd have been a lot happier, haha.

Sure its believable. But why is it necessary? The opposite is believable too, and doesn't involve two strong willed women tearing eachother down over their femaleness

...I know I'm in the minority here on feeling that way, most folks seem to love them together, but I hated it...particularly how she treats Isa, altho they both throw some awful punches.

I see what you're saying, but I think I like it because it allowed Aveline to express the fact that she doesn't care what Isabella thinks of her femininity or what have you. On the other hand, I could have done without the attempted **** shaming, just because Isabella likes to sleep with people. 

[leadintea]

I choose to look at it as she just generally doesn't know how to express herself, which ironically is a more masculine trait than a feminine one.

 

I guess I can see that, but it's still a trait that I feel gets added to strong women to make them more approachable and less masculine, kinda like Helga from Hey, Arnold.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

Well she also turned some animals bad, but yeah she was sweet. "Romanced" her once, although I put her more like Fenris than Cassandra. She is actually pretty sweet, but it was bugged for me so I never got to play it other than see it on youtube.

Not on purpose, though. It was just a side effect of the Dark Side being strong in that area. 

 

I'm sorry you didn't get to play it.

[Ms .45]

Yeah, it's possible that Wesley came onto her first, but I doubt that someone could forget how to read the signs in just a mere 4 years. With the way she handled everything and everyone in her life with such strength and resolve, I just feel that her sudden weakness in the face of something like romance was stereotypically feminine.

The short story explains how they met, but you're left to guess how it blossomed into romance:

http://dragonage.wik...e_(short_story)

[eyezonlyii]

The short story explains how they met, but you're left to guess how it blossomed into romance:

http://dragonage.wik...e_(short_story)

after reading that, it seems like Aveline would have made a great Templar herself.

[Ryzaki]

Haha, see, I didn't like that part of Viv but that mostly has to do with the whole black women always having to be stoic and taking care of themselves, never getting to express their feelings or be taken care of or let themselves be happy stuff that pops up so much of the time. She's a greeeeaat character, but I feel like they tried too hard to make her AWESOME and not enough time spent prioritizing her humanity.

 

...that's not to say she's not a very human character, just like. Idk if I'm articulating this well. She's a good character but she needed more room to breathe, imo. More content, maybe. 

 

I kind of wish her sadness over Bastien wasn't swept under the rug so quickly. I mean it fit her to put the mask up so fast but you'd think she'd let a friend quizzy see more of her grief.

[Vestus]

I just discovered this thread, I am soooo late to this discussion. But I see it as a lucky surprise Christmas gift.

 

As the husband of a gay Marine... I basically don't even need to finish that sentence, do I? I'm elated that this thread exists and that it garnered some attention from the writers/developers.

 

And despite the fact that Patrick is all the white knight I will ever need, I still long to see him represented in this medium (which is why I pretty much always model my main character after him).

 

I think Dorian is fantastic. He is a very accurate portrayal of a gay man who has spent his life grudgingly accepting 'fun and sex' as the pinnacle of his romantic endeavors. He is witty, guarded, sarcastic, narcissistic, and flirty. I used to be Dorian.

 

But that is exactly what makes the 'gay white knight' such a compelling and desirable character.

His strength of purpose and character allow him to rise above his frustrations over living a life of sexual repression. He is not bitter, he is driven. He is not angry, he is inspired.  He does not merely sit around and mock the world for its flaws, he actively makes the world better.

 

Patrick saved me from myself. He saved me from believing that the world was broken. He was, and always will be, my hero.

 

Bioware, I implore you to understand: If you want to send a message about LGBTQ people - and more importantly, to LGBTQ people - send this message. Men and women like Patrick exist. Gay heroes exist. Stop reminding us of our struggles and quirks, and instead remind us that we are heroes.

[sandalisthemaker]

I just discovered this thread, I am soooo late to this discussion. But I see it as a lucky surprise Christmas gift.

 

As the husband of a gay Marine... I basically don't even need to finish that sentence, do I? I'm elated that this thread exists and that it garnered some attention from the writers/developers.

 

And despite the fact that Patrick is all the white knight I will ever need, I still long to see him represented in this medium (which is why I pretty much always model my main character after him).

 

I think Dorian is fantastic. He is a very accurate portrayal of a gay man who has spent his life grudgingly accepting 'fun and sex' as the pinnacle of his romantic endeavors. He is witty, guarded, sarcastic, narcissistic, and flirty. I used to be Dorian.

 

But that is exactly what makes the 'gay white knight' such a compelling and desirable character.

His strength of purpose and character allow him to rise above his frustrations over living a life of sexual repression. He is not bitter, he is driven. He is not angry, he is inspired.  He does not merely sit around and mock the world for its flaws, he actively makes the world better.

 

Patrick saved me from myself. He saved me from believing that the world was broken. He was, and always will be, my hero.

 

Bioware, I implore you to understand: If you want to send a message about LGBTQ people - and more importantly, to LGBTQ people - send this message. Men and women like Patrick exist. Gay heroes exist. Stop reminding us of our struggles and quirks, and instead remind us that we are heroes.

 

Thanks for sharing.

I just wish the devs would post in here. Here's hoping they've at least noticed this thread.

[errantknight]

Aveline isn't a romance option though,  but she does certainly fit the archetype and has only been in opposite sex relationships that we know of.

Heh, she kind of is, just not the kind that works out well for the hero. My Hawke fell for her, had to help her hook up with another guy (ow!) and was then intereted in no one else. It was a romance, just a really sad one, lol. I suspect the female Hawke has the same opportunity for unrequited love. Regarding this thread, I think there should be gay, stright and bi characters of all types. Certainly a virtuous warrior who happens to be gay is no stretch.

[daveliam]

I just discovered this thread, I am soooo late to this discussion. But I see it as a lucky surprise Christmas gift.

 

As the husband of a gay Marine... I basically don't even need to finish that sentence, do I? I'm elated that this thread exists and that it garnered some attention from the writers/developers.

 

And despite the fact that Patrick is all the white knight I will ever need, I still long to see him represented in this medium (which is why I pretty much always model my main character after him).

 

I think Dorian is fantastic. He is a very accurate portrayal of a gay man who has spent his life grudgingly accepting 'fun and sex' as the pinnacle of his romantic endeavors. He is witty, guarded, sarcastic, narcissistic, and flirty. I used to be Dorian.

 

But that is exactly what makes the 'gay white knight' such a compelling and desirable character.

His strength of purpose and character allow him to rise above his frustrations over living a life of sexual repression. He is not bitter, he is driven. He is not angry, he is inspired.  He does not merely sit around and mock the world for its flaws, he actively makes the world better.

 

Patrick saved me from myself. He saved me from believing that the world was broken. He was, and always will be, my hero.

 

Bioware, I implore you to understand: If you want to send a message about LGBTQ people - and more importantly, to LGBTQ people - send this message. Men and women like Patrick exist. Gay heroes exist. Stop reminding us of our struggles and quirks, and instead remind us that we are heroes.

 

This makes me happy.  I'm happy for you and your husband.  He sounds dreamy.  Good for you!  I'm so glad that you shared with us!

 

Thanks for sharing.

I just wish the devs would post in here. Here's hoping they've at least noticed this thread.

 

I remember Allan talking a bit about gay KISAs in the romance trope thread a few months ago.  One of us (maybe nata?) brought it up and he was intrigued and asked a few questions about it.  If I'm remembering correctly, he also referenced it either later in that thread or in a different one altogether.  I remember being pleased to see that it stuck with him.  So I think we can safely say that this feedback has gotten to him.  Although, I would love to see a writer's perspective on it as well. 

 

Do we know who the writers were for the other KISAs?

 

Alistair - Gaider

Sebastian - Hepler

Aveline - Lukas

Cassandra - Gaider

Cullen - ?

Blackwall - Sheryl

[DetcelferVisionary]

Merry Christmas Eve Everyone!!!

 

I hope a gay knight in shining armor blasts out of a big red box for you tomorrow....  for those who would actually want that.  Cheers!

[Vestus]

Thanks for sharing.

I just wish the devs would post in here. Here's hoping they've at least noticed this thread.

 

I thought I remembered reading waaaay back that someone referenced this thread on someone's twitter. I guess I mistakenly assumed that person was a Bioware employee.

 

This makes me happy.  I'm happy for you and your husband.  He sounds dreamy.  Good for you!  I'm so glad that you shared with us!

 

My pleasure and thank you more.  I LOL'd at the thought of telling Patrick he's "dreamy."  I imagine his response would be something along the lines of...

 

"Ummm, thanks?" while shoving food in his mouth and shrugging his shoulders.

 

But that brings up another good point about the gay KISA - he needs to be humble. I'm sure that's been said already, but it's worth repeating.