I thought I remembered reading waaaay back that someone referenced this thread on someone's twitter. I guess I mistakenly assumed that person was a Bioware employee.
Ah, yes.
I believe it was Patrick Weekes. A wonderful forumite, Maugrim, tweeted him about this thread when I first made it.
I thought I remembered reading waaaay back that someone referenced this thread on someone's twitter. I guess I mistakenly assumed that person was a Bioware employee.
My pleasure and thank you more. I LOL'd at the thought of telling Patrick he's "dreamy." I imagine his response would be something along the lines of...
"Ummm, thanks?" while shoving food in his mouth and shrugging his shoulders.
But that brings up another good point about the gay KISA - he needs to be humble. I'm sure that's been said already, but it's worth repeating.
Confirms my "dreamy" suspicions!
I just discovered this thread, I am soooo late to this discussion. But I see it as a lucky surprise Christmas gift.
As the husband of a gay Marine... I basically don't even need to finish that sentence, do I? I'm elated that this thread exists and that it garnered some attention from the writers/developers.
And despite the fact that Patrick is all the white knight I will ever need, I still long to see him represented in this medium (which is why I pretty much always model my main character after him).
I think Dorian is fantastic. He is a very accurate portrayal of a gay man who has spent his life grudgingly accepting 'fun and sex' as the pinnacle of his romantic endeavors. He is witty, guarded, sarcastic, narcissistic, and flirty. I used to be Dorian.
But that is exactly what makes the 'gay white knight' such a compelling and desirable character.
His strength of purpose and character allow him to rise above his frustrations over living a life of sexual repression. He is not bitter, he is driven. He is not angry, he is inspired. He does not merely sit around and mock the world for its flaws, he actively makes the world better.
Patrick saved me from myself. He saved me from believing that the world was broken. He was, and always will be, my hero.
Bioware, I implore you to understand: If you want to send a message about LGBTQ people - and more importantly, to LGBTQ people - send this message. Men and women like Patrick exist. Gay heroes exist. Stop reminding us of our struggles and quirks, and instead remind us that we are heroes.
Guest_Stormheart83_*
Even knights in shining armour have moments of weakness or despair.When you meet her she had fallen to the dark side. I don't think she really counts.
OMG!!! Today is my birthday and reading this is probably going to be the best present I get all day! I mean I'm on my phone in my bed at my parents' house choking back emotional emotions because I just...this is beautiful and really reminded me of my Matthew (we're about 1500 miles apart at the moment).
I'll just be over here burning through a box of Kleenex if you don't mind.
I'm so glad I decided to pop back on here before I left for Christmas dinner.
I'm sorry to hear that you are apart from your knight on such a doubly special day. The song "I'm Already There" by Lonestar started playing in my head... as I know all too well how you feel.
But as luck would have it, I get to end this post on a lighthearted note. While I was sitting here, Patrick decided to feign interest in what I was doing... just so he could fart in my vicinity. Sometimes distance really does make the heart grow fonder. Romance never dies, eh? (sigh)
Happy Birthday and Merry Christmas! 
i read the first sentence of this thread. then i decided to just make a post saying I was here.
He's a real keeper that oneI'm so glad I decided to pop back on here before I left for Christmas dinner.
I'm sorry to hear that you are apart from your knight on such a doubly special day. The song "I'm Already There" by Lonestar started playing in my head... as I know all too well how you feel.
But as luck would have it, I get to end this post on a lighthearted note. While I was sitting here, Patrick decided to feign interest in what I was doing... just so he could fart in my vicinity. Sometimes distance really does make the heart grow fonder. Romance never dies, eh? (sigh)
Happy Birthday and Merry Christmas!
lol
a KISA and a farter, ideal man tbh, right?
Has anyone encountered any gay NPCs at all? I haven't yet.
All of the random couples and love letters etc, that I have found so far have been hetero.
Great thread. I would love to see that type of gay npc in game. And obviously Bioware is the only hope of this happening sometime in the next few decades lol.
Oh well, here's hoping people who want can get their Gay Knight in Shining Armor char, male or female 
One of the first agents you recruit is in an F/F relationship I'm pretty sure. In the Hinterlands. The scout.
Celene is a pretty major one though her past with Briala is the past.
Ritts, I think the scout was called. She was dating a female mage.
Also, one of the nobles who keeps pinching Cullen's butt at the party is a man.
There are also two male nobles on a balcony at the party who are obviously a bickering couple. (And speaking of which, there's a war table mission involving Wade and Herren, although we don't actually see them.)
Yes.
Maybe?
Kidding.
Ritts, I think the scout was called. She was dating a female mage.
Also, one of the nobles who keeps pinching Cullen's butt at the party is a man.
Still down about Cullen.
I remember his first cutscene at Haven, where he just has this flirty smirk when he walks away. Not as bad as Alistair asking me about licking lamposts, but still.
I'm really happy with 3 LIs (Cass, Josie and Dorian) in this game so I can't really complain though I hope there's some way to restore the content.
And I actually liked Solas's personality a lot. I'd totally dig an introspective and intellectual LI like him in the future.
Aw. You have my sympathies, Cullen is a pretty cool guy in this game. And easy on the eyes, too.
Dorian is awesome and Josie is adorable. It's not often you get the chance play as a woman who duels a man for another woman's affection. 
I do wish more of the romance options would make the first move, though. I can see why the developers would want to avoid that, but I think it would be nice.
Aww, Vestus thanks for sharing.
Haha, he'd certainly like to think gas in a redeeming quality. But secretly, I know he wishes more people would admire him for being a Brony.
Now that I've had the time to read this thread more thoroughly, I've loved reading posts specifically from you, eyezonlii, daveliam, and sandalisthemaker.
Specifically, I now cannot read a single one of daveliam's posts without spending at least a few seconds staring at his profile picture. The personalities in this thread have irrevocably turned me into a 
dwarf lover . daveliam, stop being such a sexy dwarf, we're both married to handsome man-beasts already.
Anyways, I realized that I derailed a conversation arc about a F/F KISA, and I found your comments, veeia, to be very intriguing regarding some of the female companions in the series (Aveline, Cassandra, Sigrun)
Hold on, cause this is gonna get deep... I'm gonna put most of this behind a spoiler because I'm long-winded. LOL
You criticize Aveline and Cassandra for displaying a "softer side." You commented that you just want a woman who 'gets s*** done.' Which brings me to my two questions:
1) Are there any perceived feminine qualities that you would find admirable and alluring in a female KISA? Man-lovers, same question?
2) Do you feel that the perfect female KISA is one who portrays a lesbian woman who acts as freely and irreverently as the American straight white male?
Discuss!
1) Are there any perceived feminine qualities that you would find admirable and alluring in a female KISA? Man-lovers, same question?
2) Do you feel that the perfect female KISA is one who portrays a lesbian woman who acts as freely and irreverently as the American straight white male?
Discuss!
It's tricky for me to get into specifics about the portrayal of a lesbian KISA, since I have no personal stake in it. But I am curious of what others have to say.
As far as a male goes, I wouldn't mind a mix of "feminine" and "masculine" qualities. I would prefer it actually, since many of the "feminine" qualities, (gentleness, and a more sensitive and/or nurturing nature spring to mind) aren't exclusively female qualities anyway, and would serve to make the character more likeable and well-rounded, as opposed to a RAWR UBER MASCULINE ALPHA MALE RAWR. At least to me.
1) Are there any perceived feminine qualities that you would find admirable and alluring in a female KISA? Man-lovers, same question?
2) Do you feel that the perfect female KISA is one who portrays a lesbian woman who acts as freely and irreverently as the American straight white male?
Discuss!
It's tricky for me to get into specifics about the portrayal of a lesbian KISA, since I have no personal stake in it. But I am curious of what others have to say.
As far as a male goes, I wouldn't mind a mix of "feminine" and "masculine" qualities. I would prefer it actually, since many of the "feminine" qualities, (gentleness, and a more sensitive and/or nurturing nature spring to mind) aren't exclusively female qualities anyway, and would serve to make the character more likeable and well-rounded, as opposed to a RAWR UBER MASCULINE ALPHA MALE RAWR. At least to me.
Sandal has a great point there which was what I wanted to bring up. What exactly do you define as "feminine" qualities in a man? Because, again like Sandal points out, a lot of the so called feminine specific traits are not feminine at all. Are more accurately described as being specific for anyone (either sex) who is a well balanced individual, emotionally and intellectually. A man who is sensitive, more delicate, kinder, generally more emotionally reactive, isn't "less" of a man (I specifically avoided saying "isn't feminine" because I really dislike how "feminine" is used as a pejorative description; homophobia and misogynism go hand in hand afterall), but sadly, there are plenty who believe it so.
So yea lol. As for answering lemme think...
1. I like men who are not emotionally stunted, which means they are capable and aware of their own feelings and manifesting them in a normal healthy way. Popular opinion would have it that men like that are "less" or more "effeminate". So be it. The matcho alpha "no feelings" type of man is really a no-no for me. I don't live in the stone age thank you very much, I don't want Ape Jones to wack me over the head and drag me to his cave
2. Gonna adapt question for guys again, since I'm better suited to answer that one lol. No, I wouldn't like a "str8 acting" (pff I hate that term) gay KISA guy, especially not if presented as an "ideal".
It's tricky for me to get into specifics about the portrayal of a lesbian KISA, since I have no personal stake in it. But I am curious of what others have to say.
Exactly my thoughts. I am completely ignorant as to what differences there might be in what a woman seeks in a woman in same-sex relationships.
I would prefer it actually, since many of the "feminine" qualities, (gentleness, and a more sensitive and/or nurturing nature spring to mind) aren't exclusively female qualities anyway, and would serve to make the character more likeable and well-rounded, as opposed to a RAWR UBER MASCULINE ALPHA MALE RAWR. At least to me.
This. Very much this. I chose the phrase "perceived feminine qualities" for a reason, but you have expressly stated my intent.
I greatly disapprove of the idea that sensitivity and gentleness are signs of weakness. And the fact these qualities are then dubbed "feminine" is basically the lynchpin of sexism and hypermasculinity.
Because, again like Sandal points out, a lot of the so called feminine specific traits are not feminine at all.
Please see my above response to Sandal, as I completely agree with you.
and to quote myself:
You criticize Aveline and Cassandra for displaying a "softer side." You commented that you just want a woman who 'gets s*** done.'
It is precisely the negative correlation of the words feminine, sensitive, and weak that make me so intrigued as to what veeia's thoughts are.
Please see my above response to Sandal, as I completely agree with you.
and to quote myself:
You criticize Aveline and Cassandra for displaying a "softer side." You commented that you just want a woman who 'gets s*** done.'
It is precisely this correlation of the words feminine, sensitive, and weak that make me so intrigued as to what veeia's thoughts are.
Yeah I saw 
I wasn't disagreeing with you either lol, I think I might have gone in "disperesed rambling" mode for a second there, wanting to touch on 500 subjects in one sentence
It's tricky for me to get into specifics about the portrayal of a lesbian KISA, since I have no personal stake in it. But I am curious of what others have to say.
As far as a male goes, I wouldn't mind a mix of "feminine" and "masculine" qualities. I would prefer it actually, since many of the "feminine" qualities, (gentleness, and a more sensitive and/or nurturing nature spring to mind) aren't exclusively female qualities anyway, and would serve to make the character more likeable and well-rounded, as opposed to a RAWR UBER MASCULINE ALPHA MALE RAWR. At least to me.
Yeah, I figured I'd mention that I agreed with this as well. My idea is related, promise.
I'm bisexual, but I know what I'd like if there was a lesbian KISA. Someone like Cassandra. Someone that loves combat and weapons, and loves to spar. The party banter with Iron Bull and Cass really reflects this. Also, tough, no nonsense and built like Sarah Conner in Terminator 2. Combine that with an ability to lead and you have a powerful combination for any character regardless of sexual preference. Awesome.
This is also a woman that would give a rose to show that they care to the one they love, or have a soft spot for poetry. Or perhaps would love to simply take their love somewhere quiet and look at the stars. I think the reason why Cass being straight was stinging to some lesbians and bisexual women is because she reflects much of those qualities.
Short personal story: Back about 10 years ago, when my husband and I first started dating, we went to see Metallica in Wyoming. I had been lamenting that, ever since I moved to the city, I couldn't see the stars much anymore. Coming back from the concert to our hotel (we had to get one about 40 mins away because everywhere else was booked,) he suddenly pulled off to the side of the road. Even though it was very cold, he encouraged me to step outside. And out there, in the clear cold Wyoming night sky, was the stars that I rarely see much anymore.
That's romantic as hell to me, and it's those little moments that I really think could add to a gay/lesbian/bisexual romance. I should have added the wonderful gay and bisexual men that would love this as well (my apologizes for leaving that out.) Minus the Metallica, of course. Then again...
Of course Cassandra isn't available, which sucks but she's at least still awesome. She's hit my #3 spot of favorite DA friendships, just behind Morrigan and Varric. Morrigan/Lady Warden still can't be topped and Varric/Hawke Varric/Inquisitor (yeah it's as tie, sue me) has his place very well secured in my heart. She's what inspires me when I think of a lesbian/bisexual Lady KISA.
I originally replied to the wrong post...oops haha...
Please see my above response to Sandal, as I completely agree with you.
and to quote myself:
You criticize Aveline and Cassandra for displaying a "softer side." You commented that you just want a woman who 'gets s*** done.'
It is precisely the negative correlation of the words feminine, sensitive, and weak that make me so intrigued as to what veeia's thoughts are.
I think in this case it's the fact that the common portrayal of women in media and especially the fantasy/action genres is the fact that they need someone (usually a man) in order to do the heavy lifting.
For instance, in pretty much any other game, Cassandra would have been a male character, because of not only her attitude, but also her affiliation with the Seekers themselves. It's a very masculine role and there are very few women who have been depicted in such ways, not just in games, but across all media. Unfortunately, the majority of those women who are put into masculine role are justified in those roles because they are "less than woman" e.g. more man than woman, and the most cost effective way to do this in a limited time is to make her a lesbian. Like "Look at this woman here, she's an [insert occupation here] no real woman would ever truly be interested in doing this, so she has to be like men."
To me, this is related to the unwillingness of *straight men to acknowledge that a feminine woman would ever be interested in another woman (because women have to justify not wanting or being attracted to a man) and therefore the prevalence of most fictional lesbian women being only lesbian until the main male character comes along, or if she is actually bisexual, then she is the feminine, conventionally attractive, unassuming type, more akin to Lelianna and Josephine. Not that I have any objection to those two, or their type, but just an observation. Which then pushes the problem into a new area: because a butch, more masculine woman was seen as a derogatory or inflaming stereotype, there is reluctance to portray one in a story because then she is seen as not her own character, but a cheap and easy way to fill in a slot.
To bring this back around to my original intent, these more feminine characters are usually sidelined in favor of a masculine hero, and then relegated to background noise with no agency of their own. Again, I say usually, because as we can clearly see, Bioware certainly does not engage in this practice. Therefore it was disheartening when Cassandra was not at least bisexual, and I would argue Vivienne as well, because if the case can be made for non heterosexual women, then the same can be true of women of color regardless of their sexuality. Although, it could be argued that Vivienne may be a stronger character because she can't be romanced.
There's more to come, but family lunch is happening,
*straight refers to the societal heterosexual man, not every one ever in existance
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