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[Maverick827]

And Cullen... if you look up "knight in shining armor" in the dictionary you might see a picture of Cullen there Cause I mean, come on.

 

Wasn't Cullen in DAO kind of...bad?  Or have we all accepted some sort of retcon?

[alwaysquestions]

Wasn't Cullen in DAO kind of...bad?  Or have we all accepted some sort of retcon?

 

He was traumatized and now feels bad about it. Being a little bit tortured about your past goes really well with a KISA.

 

Maybe not Blackwall tortured though, that's a bit much.

[CuriousArtemis]

Wasn't Cullen in DAO kind of...bad?  Or have we all accepted some sort of retcon?

 

No, he was tortured and then set free. Although I guess if you agree to annul the Circle, he agrees with your decision. But I don't think that's fair to the character since he's not in a stable state of mind at that point.

 

Anyway, he's LITERALLY a knight I don't think anyone is more KISA than him. 

[eyezonlyii]

No, he was tortured and then set free. Although I guess if you agree to annul the Circle, he agrees with your decision. But I don't think that's fair to the character since he's not in a stable state of mind at that point.
 
Anyway, he's LITERALLY a knight I don't think anyone is more KISA than him.

Loghain...and Justice/Kristoff!

[Maverick827]

No, he was tortured and then set free. Although I guess if you agree to annul the Circle, he agrees with your decision. But I don't think that's fair to the character since he's not in a stable state of mind at that point.

 

Anyway, he's LITERALLY a knight I don't think anyone is more KISA than him. 

 

Cullen directly asks you to wipe everyone out, just to be sure.

 

You can respond by saying "I want to save everyone, I would rather let malifacarum go than to kill innocents."  That is the fairy tale, knight in shining armor view point.

 

I can't see this new Cullen as anything but a retcon.  Which isn't a huge deal; retcons aren't inherently bad.  But Cullen from DAO was morally gray.

[veeia]

I don't think he's a retcon. The slides are obviously not canon, but that's true for most of them.

Cullen was innocent and young, then he was horribly traumatized and that turned him hard and confused, then he processed it and became a good man..this time with more experience backing it up. If anything, seeing what he was capable of falling to makes it all the more meaningful that he chooses to walk away from it.

Morally grey? I suppose so, in the way all people are when you come down to it, but character growth over 12 years isn't a retcon. I've followed (at least I like to think I'm now a basically decent person) a similar path, shrug. When we are at our worst, we don't always get back up at our best. Sometimes it takes us awhile to get there.

[eyezonlyii]

Cullen directly asks you to wipe everyone out, just to be sure.
 
You can respond by saying "I want to save everyone, I would rather let malifacarum go than to kill innocents."  That is the fairy tale, knight in shining armor view point.
 
I can't see this new Cullen as anything but a retcon.  Which isn't a huge deal; retcons aren't inherently bad.  But Cullen from DAO was morally gray.

It's really the same arc that Kaidan had, but we get to actually see the trauma as opposed to being told about BAaT. Remember, Kaidan tells you that he went dark for a bit, but he came around and signed with the Alliance on his terms. That's how I see Cullen with the Templars/Inquisition.

[veeia]

That's a good point about Kaidan.

For me, the best KISAs are like that, they are so good and so righteous not because it is an inherent innate goodness, but because they are aware of the darkness that can form in all hearts, and they act not to vanquish an intangible evil, but to draw a line in the sand and say that it doesn't matter if people are flawed or if they fail, they are always capable of great things too.

I don't like the self righteous KISAs as much. They don't have to be dark, or fallen, but I've always loved Superman, not because he's so good, but because when he's written well...he believes in the goodness of people while knowing they aren't perfect. His compassion extends to everyone, because everyone deserves it. They will stumble, they will fall, but in time, they will join you in the sun, etc.

[veeia]

That last post is why I like Cass so much.

She starts off the self righteous knight, so sure of the world, but it keeps crumbling all her certainties, until she finally decides that she may never know for sure that she is acting "right" by a divine authority or moral imperative, but by acknowledging the limits of human understanding, she knows she can make the best actions possible...because she is driven to act, she needs to help and improve and reform. Inaction is unfathomable to the KISA. It is better to try and not know, than know and do nothing.

Interestingly enough, Solas has about the opposite arc.

[Maverick827]

I just associate the "knight in shining armor" cliche with a fairly tale good guy, who's good because he's good, without question, to a fault.

I also prefer when characters are deep, and when good characters have reason to be good.

[daveliam]

I just associate the "knight in shining armor" cliche with a fairly tale good guy, who's good because he's good, without question, to a fault.

I also prefer when characters are deep, and when good characters have reason to be good.

 

Doesn't have to be.  I think that Lancelot is a great example of a KISA who is troubled and tortured.  I think that, just like any other trope, a KISA can be one-note and cliche.  Or can be complex and play with the trope a bit.  All of the male DA KISAs play with the trope a bit:

 

Alistair - goofy and avoids responsibility

Sebastian - a rogue and religious zealot

Cullen - a drug addict with a dark past

Blackwall - a reformed murderer and imposter

 

None of them are the totally squeaky clean KISA that you are talking about. 

[(Disgusted noise.)]

I don't think either Steve or Kaidan counts. Kaiden is the ME equivalent of a Mage while Steve is a pilot. An ME KISA in my opinion would have to be a soldier. Like imagine if Jacob were gay/bi (and didn't dump you... because a true KISA would never dump his beloved )

Well, Jacob has biotics too. His biotics are awful, but they technically exist. (Personally, I think the devs hated him too. Who thought Pull/Incendiary Ammo/Barrier was a good skill set?) So, one could consider him a "mage" as well, depending on how they compare ME classes to DA classes.

 

But then again, I'm more interested in the personality/motivation/social standing of a KISA. I don't really care about whether they use a sword or not.

[SardaukarElite]

I don't think either Steve or Kaidan counts. Kaiden is the ME equivalent of a Mage while Steve is a pilot.

 

Isn't Steve an ex-fighter pilot? That's like as close as you get to a modern knight.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

Isn't Steve an ex-fighter pilot? That's like as close as you get to a modern knight.

Yes, he used to be a Trident pilot. 

 

These things:

Spoiler

[Shandyr]

To be honest: I've longed for a gay/bisexual KISA in a Bioware Game for so long that I think this is what it's all about:

Longing for something because you cannot have it.

 

I think if they really added a gay/bi KISA I'd find him far less interesting that I'd imagine him to be now.

 

Would I really choose a gay/bi Alistair or Sebastian or Cullen over Anders, Fenris, Dorian, Kaidan?

I doubt that. Bioware has given us many interesting bisexual/gay companions so far.

 

I do not disapprove of this idea however. It would be nice to see one gay/bi KISA for once and then

see if I would be really excited or if I just wanted him because I couldn't have him.

[alwaysquestions]

 

Would I really choose a gay/bi Alistair or Sebastian or Cullen over Anders, Fenris, Dorian, Kaidan?

I doubt that. Bioware has given us many interesting bisexual/gay companions so far

 

I'd definitely take a gay Alistair, tyvm.

 

As for the gay LI's in the series so far, I don't really share your enthusiasm. Zevran, who can fall for you cause bisexuality is learned by getting raped in a brothel was a no for me. Anders and Fenris were player-sexual more than bisexual. I romanced Fenris and I don't remember a single thing he said or did that would indicate he likes guys except for sleeping with you. It felt a bit like "here we'll make dialogue gender neutral, you happy?".

 

Dorian I love. In fact, considering how close he plays to gay stereotypes I bow down to David Gaider for writing him so well. A sassy, looks obsessed, younger gay man with an alcohol problem who was rejected by his family could have turned out a lot different. But let's have a gay Blackwall next time, let's move those boundaries of queer representation one more step forward.

[Sartoz]

Wasn't Cullen in DAO kind of...bad?  Or have we all accepted some sort of retcon?

In DA:O Cullen was a scared as****e who wanted to kill all the mages "just in case" they were possessed. I never really understood why Bioware chose him as one of the advisors in DAI.

[eyezonlyii]

In DA:O Cullen was a scared as****e who wanted to kill all the mages "just in case" they were possessed. I never really understood why Bioware chose him as one of the advisors in DAI.

Because he was that scared guy in origins who wanted to kill all mages, then went to Kirkwall and saw that the templars aren't always better and learned that there had to be change on both ends and that the system as it stands is broken. Basically he's seen the worst of both sides, and the best as well. Who better to understand what needs to be done?

That and the fans would go nuts if he wasn't there.

[C0uncil0rTev0s]

Maybe some DLC for Curlie? Like. you know, 'Ballad of the gay Cullen?'

[eyezonlyii]

Maybe some DLC for Curlie? Like. you know, 'Ballad of the gay Cullen?'

Please no...stop this thought right now!

[rapscallioness]

Sounds like a good deal. I'll trade you one knight in shining armor for one straight, dark haired, human male Rogue....with a heart of gold, ofc.

[alwaysquestions]

Sounds like a good deal. I'll trade you one knight in shining armor for one straight, dark haired, human male Rogue....with a heart of gold, ofc.

 

Deal! I'm throwing in funny for the rogue, if you give us a good brooder.

[rapscallioness]

Deal! I'm throwing in funny for the rogue, if you give us a good brooder.

Yes!

[Racked]

So, this is something that I've seen tossed around in many a romance related thread. I figured I'd make a thread for it so that people who would like to see a gay knight in shining armor could consolidate their thoughts.

 

Regarding the archetypes of the LI's we've had up to this point, the gay knight in shining armor is one that has yet to be explored.

Errrr, have you seen the way Cullen walks up to the War Table? There's your gay Knight in shining armour - just he's still in the closet He does it for me lol

[sandalisthemaker]

Errrr, have you seen the way Cullen walks up to the War Table? There's your gay Knight in shining armour - just he's still in the closet He does it for me lol

 

What do you mean?

 

At any rate, now I'm trying to picture how he walks up to the war table. I can't recall right now.