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[Hanako Ikezawa]

 

When you told me that they decided to keep Cullen straight, I was incredibly disappointed. I was under the impression he'd be an option for guys and I don't think that'd be unfair in the slightest. I think it's unfair that they decided not to go with that idea even though it was in the works (to my knowledge)

 

With that said, I'd prefer a bisexual knight in shining armor myself for variety options. My only justification for this is that I'm not offended when my significant other leers at girls (when I had one). We could be pervs together. I don't want to take away from your desire for a gay knight in shining armor however because it would be unique to the universe.

 

edit: I will say..

 

If it had anything to do with fear of angry privileged dudes (like me when I was going on about desire demons) making a stink on the forums, as sad as it would be, I could understand why they'd hesitate. I really do feel bad about cullen. 

Yeah, considering every known fan of Cullen would've loved him being bi (or been totally indifferent, seriously just ask anyone in the Cullen thread), it makes the decision just hit right in the feel bads. Sometimes I wish that that voice track had never have been found so we could've been allowed to assume it was never a possibility. Would've lessened the blow. Plus his romance is literally the best.

I'm glad they didn't go through with making Cullen bisexual when he was heterosexual in Origins. I hate when people change a character's sexuality.

[TheOgre]

 

 

I'm glad they didn't go through with making Cullen bisexual when he was heterosexual in Origins. I hate when people change a character's sexuality.

 

 

He was confirmed straight in DAO? I'm not even trying to change his nature, I just want to know. They had files in DAI that implied he was going to be Bisexual.

 

I know that as a female mage you could flirt with him in the tower.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

He was confirmed straight in DAO? I'm not even trying to change his nature, I just want to know. They had files in DAI that implied he was going to be Bisexual.

 

I know that as a female mage you could flirt with him in the tower.

I'm referring to him having a crush on a female Amell/Surana and not a male Amell/Surana. 

I know there are files in DAI that show they at one time were making him bisexual. I am glad they stuck with the original plan and kept him what he was in Origins since as I said I hate when people do that. 

[MACharlie1]

He was confirmed straight in DAO? I'm not even trying to change his nature, I just want to know. They had files in DAI that implied he was going to be Bisexual.

 

I know that as a female mage you could flirt with him in the tower.

He gets all nervous only around a female mage. Thats the only thing we have to go on.  

 

Personally, I wouldn't mind it at all if he was bisexual in DAI. Sexuality is fluid and everyone acts differently around everyone for one reason or another. Cullen maybe nervous because he's a Templar - probably kept in ranks amongst other boys and has no idea how to talk to girls - never mind one he's attracted to. For guys - he might just be comfortable with them and doesn't get all flustered. He can still have an attraction and not be nervous. 

 

But as it is, he doesn't like men. Or Qunari/Dwarfs. 

[TheOgre]

He gets all nervous only around a female mage. Thats the only thing we have to go on.  

 

Personally, I wouldn't mind it at all if he was bisexual in DAI. Sexuality is fluid and everyone acts differently around everyone for one reason or another. Cullen maybe nervous because he's a Templar - probably kept in ranks amongst other boys and has no idea how to talk to girls - never mind one he's attracted to. For guys - he might just be comfortable with them and doesn't get all flustered. He can still have an attraction and not be nervous. 

 

But as it is, he doesn't like men. Or Qunari/Dwarfs. 

 

This, it's possible to be bisexual but prefer females or the other way around in my opinion. It just takes a snowflake or something like that, someone really special for Cullen to be interested in.

[ThreeF]

I kind of prefer the dynamic Cullen has with Dorian as a straight guy, very bromansy

[eyezonlyii]

I'm glad this thread hasn't died yet! But agreed with the Dorian discussion from earlier.

 

On the cop from Southland, I had heard about him ( I haven't watched the show at all), but from what I do know, while it is eventually revealed that he is gay, his entire relationship is off screen, with the tragedy being the fact that you only realize he's in one because the one scene with his boyfriend is when they're breaking up. Though I could be wrong on that.

 

Trustworthy, helpful, loyal, friendly, courteous, kind, obedient, cheerful, thrifty, brave, clean, reverent

 

Things a KISA must be. Also conveniently the Boy Scout oath.

 

I made it to First Class. 

[(Disgusted noise.)]

 

 

I'm glad they didn't go through with making Cullen bisexual when he was heterosexual in Origins. I hate when people change a character's sexuality.

 

Cullen never said that he's only attracted to women in DAO. Assuming that he's straight when he never identified as such is heterosexist. A bisexual person doesn't have to be attracted to men and women equally, even in the same situation.

[eyezonlyii]

Cullen never said that he's only attracted to women in DAO. Assuming the he's straight when he never identified as such is heterosexist. A bisexual person doesn't have to be attracted to men and women equally, even in the same situation.

Also, it could be that he just wasn't attracted to the male warden. As we see in Inquisition, everyone has their preferences.

[ThreeF]

 

On the cop from Southland, I had heard about him ( I haven't watched the show at all), but from what I do know, while it is eventually revealed that he is gay, his entire relationship is off screen, with the tragedy being the fact that you only realize he's in one because the one scene with his boyfriend is when they're breaking up. Though I could be wrong on that.

 

It's revealed in the first episode when at the end of it he casually is sitting in the middle of a gay bar, but it's kind of funny that this little detail flied over the head of many for the whole first season because he isn't stereotypically gay and is shown first of all as a cop.

[eyezonlyii]

It's revealed in the first episode when at the end of it he casually is sitting in the middle of a gay bar, but it's kind of funny that this little detail flied over the head of many for the whole first season because he isn't stereotypically gay and is shown first of all as a cop.

fair enough. like i said, i haven't watched it, so i was thinking around the third-fifth episode, but what about the other bit with his actual relationship? I will say that if all the characters were treated the same way, in that they're home lives weren't really shown, then that's cool. Otherwise, I'm raising my digital indignation and armoring myself with righteous offense.

[Steelcan]

no Hanako is right in this case, Cullen can't evolve on a subject or fully explore his own sexuality, the writers have to make him do it

[In Exile]

Also, it could be that he just wasn't attracted to the male warden. As we see in Inquisition, everyone has their preferences.

 

If the IB flirted with me, while I think his personality is wonderful, he's not my type, so he'd be out of luck. But if it was like, say, Zevran, Fenris or Cullen ... 

[ThreeF]

fair enough. like i said, i haven't watched it, so i was thinking around the third-fifth episode, but what about the other bit with his actual relationship? I will say that if all the characters were treated the same way, in that they're home lives weren't really shown, then that's cool. Otherwise, I'm raising my digital indignation and armoring myself with righteous offense.

Well all cops have their issues, the rookie is generally sleeping around (nothing graphic) but he is an a*hole for it (and some other things), the married guy gets screwed up by  his wife. You don't see much of the gay guy's relationship but the break up is just one last scene, you get some scenes of them being domestic and what not. The cop in question is a stoic and a drug addict (hence the Cullen comparison) it's actually one of the best performances I've seen from Cudlitz. Oh and there is an episode about a gay kid being bullied, this sounds cheesy but  it was very well put together.

 

 

If the IB flirted with me, while I think his personality is wonderful, he's not my type, so he'd be out of luck. But if it was like, say, Zevran, Fenris or Cullen ... 

 

IB is generally seems to be more obsessed with redheads and chantry healers.

[ThreeF]

no Hanako is right in this case, Cullen can't evolve on a subject or fully explore his own sexuality, the writers have to make him do it

I can totally see him having this kind of chat with the Inquisitor ....not

 

(maybe if you serve him whatever Bull is drinking)

[Mihura]

Question. What doesn't Dorian count as a Knight-Shining-Armor character? Beside the obvious that he isn't a warrior or use a sword or wear armor, which are mostly entirely superficial, the man still has several of the values and themes that are common in a KISA character.

 

Believes in helping the weak. Check.

Refuses to serve in, or be a part of, a corrupt land. Check.

Is polite and well-read. Check.

Wants to redeem something. Check. 

Risks own life for the sake of ours. Check. 

Has a personal code of ethics and standards that are strongly opposed to evil. Check.

Believes in an idealist dream of how the world should be. Check.

Wants a truly romantic relationship. Check. 

Wears the best and most fashionable cloths. Check. 

Is a noble. Check.

Is an exiled noble. Check.

Incredibility handsome. Double Check. 

 

So, yeah, he doesn't swing a sword or wear shining white armor (he does wear shining white cloth armor though) but he still embodies the far more important aspects of a KISA character. So why doesn't he get the title?

 

According to Gaider tumblr Dorian is a more Tony Stark kind of guy and not really Captain America. And yes there is a lack of LGBT+ characters that are knight in shiny armors. The same way there is a lack of female characters in classes like warrior or dwarves or qunari. Or just in number. 

I think this mostly happens because of our internal bias of expecting the same over and over again, the same applies to the writers, which is kinda sad to see the same archetypes over and over again. 
 

[AresKeith]

Cullen never said that he's only attracted to women in DAO. Assuming that he's straight when he never identified as such is heterosexist. A bisexual person doesn't have to be attracted to men and women equally, even in the same situation.

 

While that is true in the case of Cullen in DAO he was only a minor character, others like Iona and Dairren showed interest in both male and female Warden in their origins 

 

If they wanted Cullen to be bisexual they would've had him act the same with a male warden like the female since he was only a minor character at the time 

[(Disgusted noise.)]

While that is true in the case of Cullen in DAO he was only a minor character, others like Iona and Dairren showed interest in both male and female Warden in their origins 

 

If they wanted Cullen to be bisexual they would've had him act the same with a male warden like the female since he was only a minor character at the time 

Doesn't Cullen say bring up his feelings about F Amell/Surana regardless of player actions? It's not a Keep question and it comes up in Inquisition, so I would guess it was. People would have freaked out over a male character doing that to a male protagonist, so no, I don't think they would have. Besides, comparing him to Dairren doesn't change the fact that straight until proven otherwise is heterosexist garbage. Just because Dairren doesn't distinguish between gender in a situation doesn't mean that Cullen or other real life bisexuals have to approach things in the same way.

[AresKeith]

Doesn't Cullen say bring up his feelings about F Amell/Surana regardless of player actions? It's not a Keep question and it comes up in Inquisition, so I would guess it was. People would have freaked out over a male character doing that to a male protagonist, so no, I don't think they would have. Besides, comparing him to Dairren doesn't change the fact that straight until proven otherwise is heterosexist garbage. Just because Dairren doesn't distinguish between gender in a situation doesn't mean that Cullen or other real life bisexuals have to approach things in the same way.

 

And no one is saying that other, but at the same time it makes no since for them to do that with a minor character they had no plans for at the time along with an Origin's story that not every player is gonna experience 

[daveliam]

I think debate about Cullen's hypothetical sexuality in DA: O all boils down to two things:  writer's intentions versus real world heterocentrism.  The reality is that Cullen was almost certainly originally written as a straight character because the writers only had him flirt with female Amell/Surana's.  If they had considered him bisexual, they likely would have given some indication given that they did so for several other bisexual males in the game (Dairren and Zevran). 

 

Now, that being said, the idea that he must have been straight is indeed heterocentric.  Unfortunately, people still view sexuality as a binary (straight or gay) and the default being straight.  Most people don't even consider bisexuality an option for guys, so if a character expresses interest in females or, interestingly, no interest at all, people assume he's straight.  If a character expresses any interest in males, people assume he's gay.  And only if a character explicitly states that he's interested in both males and female, do people even entertain the possibility that he's bisexual. 

 

I think that's what people are reacting to.  Not so much Cullen's situation itself.  I mean, it's canon now that he's straight, so it would be silly to argue that he might still be bisexual.  But after Anders and then Kaidan and now Cullen, frankly, it's tiring to have to keep explaining why it's not a 'retcon' for someone's bisexuality to be revealed in a later game, especially with characters who only have implied heterosexuality (not confirmed). 

[In Exile]

According to Gaider tumblr Dorian is a more Tony Stark kind of guy and not really Captain America. And yes there is a lack of LGBT+ characters that are knight in shiny armors. The same way there is a lack of female characters in classes like warrior or dwarves or qunari. Or just in number.

I think this mostly happens because of our internal bias of expecting the same over and over again, the same applies to the writers, which is kinda sad to see the same archetypes over and over again.

Speaking of Cap, he really should just admit he's crushing on Bucky. But that's neither here nor there. Ahem.

[(Disgusted noise.)]

Speaking of Cap, he really should just admit he's crushing on Bucky. But that's neither here nor there. Ahem.

I'm more of a Steve/Tony kind of guy. I mean, the ending of Civil War practically made it canon on Tony's side.

[In Exile]

I'm more of a Steve/Tony kind of guy. I mean, the ending of Civil War practically made it canon on Tony's side.

 

MCU Cap hasn't gotten there yet. He's still pinning away for Bucky after Winter Soldier. That flashback to Bucky's heartfelt conversation after Steve's mom passed away? On topic, MCU Cap is very much the kind of KISA I'd like to see. A kind of unflinching (but realistic) moral compass, someone dedicated to trying to do right, I think it's very much what I'd like to see.

I suppose the problem is that a KISA like Cap as a party member would seem like the natural leader vs. the PC, but they had that with Cullen and Casandra and it worked out OK. 

[Hanako Ikezawa]

Cullen never said that he's only attracted to women in DAO. Assuming that he's straight when he never identified as such is heterosexist. A bisexual person doesn't have to be attracted to men and women equally, even in the same situation.

How is thinking someone who only shows interest in women heterosexist? There is no inclination that Cullen in Origins was bisexual, so someone thinking a man who shows attraction only to women is heterosexual is a perfectly logical conclusion to make, even if inaccurate. 

 

And as Steelcan pointed out, Cullen is a character not a real person. Everything about him is determined by writers, so they decided to try to have Cullen as bisexual later. The whole "They don't know until later in life" scenario is valid for real life people, but not for fictional characters since they are not self-aware, thus can't have revelations about themselves unless someone else makes them. 

 

So please refrain from calling someone who makes a reasonable, if inaccurate, deduction things like sexist.

[(Disgusted noise.)]

How is thinking someone who only shows interest in women heterosexist? There is no inclination that Cullen in Origins was bisexual, so someone thinking a man who shows attraction only to women is heterosexual is a perfectly logical conclusion to make, even if inaccurate. 

 

And as Steelcan pointed out, Cullen is a character not a real person. Everything about him is determined by writers, so they decided to try to have Cullen as bisexual later. The whole "They don't know until later in life" scenario is valid for real life people, but not for fictional characters since they are not self-aware, thus can't have revelations about themselves unless someone else makes them. 

 

So please refrain from calling someone who makes a reasonable, if inaccurate, deduction things like sexist.

First of all, I didn't call you anything, I called what you said heterosexist, which is not the same thing as "sexist." If you don't understand what heterosexism is, and assuming people are straight when they haven't identified as such is a primary example, that's not my problem.

 

And the fictional character argument completely undermines any sort of analysis and interpretation of characters on any level. All characters are just writing constructs, if you're not willing to suspend disbelief, there's not point in discussing them beyond the merit of their writing.