7143 réponses à ce sujet

[XxPrincess(x)ThreatxX]

Id hope for a 100% gay/lesbian KISA tbh, a bisexual KISA would either never mention their sexuality or they'd be the BW version of the "promiscuous bisexual" stereotype eg: flirting heavily & having a strong interest in the opposite sex but is willing to date a S/S PC if romanced making them seem like their just gay for the player

[ThreeF]

But that's the point isn't it? A developer can only program so much in a game. If a character is written and displayed as only preferring one sex, then it would be prudent to take that character at face value, no matter how much the fans wish they were interested in someone else.

 

Yes of course, but it usually boils down to "we have enough evidence that characters sexuality is this" vs "these evidence tell us nothing" catfights at which point "wrong" really stops being a concern. I kind of understand Dave when he says that he would prefer a gay KISA, bisexuality provides ground for dismissal to many and this is not restrictive to fictional characters. People like neat boxes, it makes it easier to rationalize.

 

BTW, straight representation isn't that diverse either, if you think about it.

 

What I find most boring, though, in either case is that character's sexuality and personality seems to be attached to character class (at least in DA universe)

[AresKeith]

Yes of course, but it usually boils down to "we have enough evidence that characters sexuality is this" vs "these evidence tell us nothing" catfights at which point "wrong" really stops being a concern. I kind of understand Dave when he says that he would prefer a gay KISA, bisexuality provides ground for dismissal to many and this is not restrictive to fictional characters. People like neat boxes, it makes it easier to rationalize.

 

BTW, straight representation isn't that diverse either, if you think about it.

 

What I find most boring, though, in either case is that character's sexuality and personality seems to be attached to character class (at least in DA universe)

 

I'm atleast hoping Bioware switches that up in the next game 

[XxPrincess(x)ThreatxX]

I'm atleast hoping Bioware switches that up in the next game

Id like a DA game that doesn't include an LGBT character as a rogue just once

[AresKeith]

Id like a DA game that doesn't include an LGBT character as a rogue just once

 

Well Iron Bull was a Warrior and Dorian a mage

 

and Josephine was a non-combatant former bard

[Hanako Ikezawa]

Well since we are saying personal preferences now I hope for a demisexual KISA. If between homosexual and bisexual only, I would prefer bisexual since that way everyone who enjoys KISAs can romance one. 

 

Well Iron Bull was a Warrior and Dorian a mage

 

and Josephine was a non-combatant former bard

Yep. We had an LGBT character in every class: Mage, Rogue, Warrior, and Non-Combatant. 

[XxPrincess(x)ThreatxX]

Well Iron Bull was a Warrior and Dorian a mage
 
and Josephine was a non-combatant former bard

Yeah, Inquisition was better with that, only had Sera as a lesbian rogue which was nice

[AresKeith]

Yeah, Inquisition was better with that, only had Sera as a lesbian rogue which was nice

 

I knew what you meant though, just being a smart ass lol

 

Atleast we know they are expanding out of the regular line up

[BraveVesperia]

Just want to throw some support into this thread, since I'd love to see a gay KISA too. Mostly female, for my own selfish reasons (freaking Aveline and especially Cassandra  ). But a male one would be great too, especially since we've only had one romanceable female KISA anyway, meanwhile there's been Alistair, Cullen and even Sebastian who are straight. Especially weird in Sebastian's case, since everyone else in that game was bi.

[ThreeF]

Sebastian is chantrysexual

[ardarn]

I love this idea and the this thread generally.

The straight acting gay knight. ....right away the Record of Lodoss War comes to mind. None were gay, but damn good characters.

If something like that could be implemented in the next game, a strong white knight, who is btw gay, but that is not his first characteristics, but his actions, that would be just awesome.

[DirkJake]

Just want to throw some support into this thread, since I'd love to see a gay KISA too. Mostly female, for my own selfish reasons (freaking Aveline and especially Cassandra  ). But a male one would be great too, especially since we've only had one romanceable female KISA anyway, meanwhile there's been Alistair, Cullen and even Sebastian who are straight. Especially weird in Sebastian's case, since everyone else in that game was bi.

 

Speaking of Aveline, I really want to see a gay KISA being awkward trying to hit on me, like with her and Donnic.

[(Disgusted noise.)]

To be honest, every time someone calls Sebastian a KISA, my skin crawls. He's a cowardly, hypocritical scumbag. If Dorian doesn't count just because he doesn't have the personality of white bread, Sebastian shouldn't count since he's willing to forcibly seize a city over a grudge with a man who isn't even there anymore (among other awful things).

[BraveVesperia]

Speaking of Aveline, I really want to see a gay KISA being awkward trying to hit on me, like with her and Donnic.

Oh, that would be adorable! I love the awkward romantic angle to both Aveline and Cassandra, especially considering that they're usually more formidable than the other awkward ones (like Merrill).

 

To be honest, every time someone calls Sebastian a KISA, my skin crawls. He's a cowardly, hypocritical scumbag. If Dorian doesn't count just because he doesn't have the personality of white bread, Sebastian shouldn't count since he's willing to forcibly seize a city over a grudge with a man who isn't even there anymore (among other awful things).

I was thinking more of Sebastian back in DA2, when I thought all that "I'm going to raze this city to the ground" was just bluster born of grief/shock. I'm not fan of him, but he did share some of the qualities I associate with KISA. It probably helps that he was the only DA2 LI who wasn't involved in some kind of crime, wasn't a rebel, misfit or wild card. I certainly wouldn't count him one in DAI.

[(Disgusted noise.)]

I don't think he fits even solely within the confines of DA2. Sebastian doesn't care about anyone but Sebastian and Sebastian's problems. The closest he ever comes to caring about anyone else is spouting soulless platitudes at them. And he has no honor code that's been brought up so often in here. His code of conduct is essentially Chantry lip service, ignore said lip service and do whatever the hell he wants, then when it's time to man up and deal with the consequences of his choices, he cries to Elthina about how he's sorry and won't do it again. Rinse and repeat.

 

Even personally identified as selfish Isabela risked her safety to free slaves, when has Sebastian ever put others before himself? Perhaps I'm having a spotty memory about it do to how much I loathe him, but I honestly can't think of any.

[eyezonlyii]

I don't think he fits even solely within the confines of DA2. Sebastian doesn't care about anyone but Sebastian and Sebastian's problems. The closest he ever comes to caring about anyone else is spouting soulless platitudes at them. And he has no honor code that's been brought up so often in here. His code of conduct is essentially Chantry lip service, ignore said lip service and do whatever the hell he wants, then when it's time to man up and deal with the consequences of his choices, he cries to Elthina about how he's sorry and won't do it again. Rinse and repeat.

 

Even personally identified as selfish Isabela risked her safety to free slaves, when has Sebastian ever put others before himself? Perhaps I'm having a spotty memory about it do to how much I loathe him, but I honestly can't think of any.

I think there may be some bias here in your memory. Not that I remember everything about Sebastian either, but to me it was more the struggle of being between the Chantry and a hard place. On one hand, he was the third son of the Starkaven line, so NO ONE had any expectation of him doing anything with his life, this he was pretty much cast to his own fate, even though he wanted to be part of the royal proceedings. When he finally gives that up to become a full fledged member of the Chantry, and a changed man, his family is murdered, thus making him the rightful heir to the throne that he thought he no longer wanted. The conflict is then between the forgive and forget mantra the Chantry teaches (except for mages of course) or to forcibly take back what is his birthright and bring those who sowed the seeds of dissent to justice. He's conflicted, but not uncaring and those platitues he speaks are exactly what got him through his darkest times, so he's attempting to use those same things for others. It's the exact same with Lelianna in Origins regarding Marjoline. 

 

The difference between Dorian and Sebastian is that while they are both doing some "good", Sebastian is trying to abstain from the vices that brought him to a lower place to begin with, while Dorian relishes in his tendencies (not a judgment just an observation). The abstaining is part and parcel to a KISA, as in most iterations, they try to hold themselves, if not everyone else to a higher standard. So Sebastian may have whined and complained at Elthina, but let's be honest, she was doing a big pile of NOTHING for everyone involved, so everyone took matters into their own hands, and thus the Kirkwall mess was unleashed. 

[DirkJake]

Oh, that would be adorable! I love the awkward romantic angle to both Aveline and Cassandra, especially considering that they're usually more formidable than the other awkward ones (like Merrill).

 

 

How romance would go can be like this. Each time you select a flirt option when talking to the gay KISA, you will receive a random gift from an unknown person. (of course he would not tell you he send it to you so you might not know it is from him). Then you have an additional conversation option with every companion to talk about the mysterious gifts. If you take this option with the KISA enough times, an Inner Circle question will appear where the KISA will invite you to an evening "patrol" where you can begin a romance with him.

 

I think it goes without saying that I really like that Aveline quest.

[BraveVesperia]

How romance would go can be like this. Each time you select a flirt option when talking to the gay KISA, you will receive a random gift from an unknown person. (of course he would not tell you he send it to you so you might not know it is from him). Then you have an additional conversation option with every companion to talk about the mysterious gifts. If you take this option with the KISA enough times, an Inner Circle question will appear where the KISA will invite you to an evening "patrol" where you can begin a romance with him.

 

I think it goes without saying that I really like that Aveline quest.

I would love that! I can just picture the protagonist sat there, looking at the copper marigolds in their bedroom and wondering what the hell it's all supposed to mean. Even better if the other companions pitch in with their completely unhelpful ideas (one thing I loved about the Sera romance was the party's bizarre suggestions, especially Vivienne's).

 

"It's a nice night for an evening."

[DirkJake]

The difference between Dorian and Sebastian is that while they are both doing some "good", Sebastian is trying to abstain from the vices that brought him to a lower place to begin with, while Dorian relishes in his tendencies (not a judgment just an observation). The abstaining is part and parcel to a KISA, as in most iterations, they try to hold themselves, if not everyone else to a higher standard. So Sebastian may have whined and complained at Elthina, but let's be honest, she was doing a big pile of NOTHING for everyone involved, so everyone took matters into their own hands, and thus the Kirkwall mess was unleashed. 

 

This reminds me of a certain bisexual character whose name begins with a and ends with nders. My Hawke loves that guy to death, but he is like almost the opposite a KISA.

[sandalisthemaker]

Yeah, I can't see any immediate solution to the "they must be playersexual or have been retconned unless they specifically state they are bisexual from the moment that they make their preferences known" thing.  Unfortunately, people in the real world still view bisexuality as a negative or made up construct.  People don't understand it and make a lot of wild assumptions about it.  That's what's influencing a lot of these comments.  Add to that the fact that people default to a heterocentric view because of societal expectations and that's why we continue to see these debates about characters.

 

It's kind of sad that we get stuck in this contradictory space:  If a LGBT character brings up their sexuality, then it's forced.  But if they don't, it's either not real or only conditionally real.  It's frustrating.  Zevran, Isabela, and Bull never have their sexuality questioned and it's because they are 'promiscuous bisexuals' who bring up sex all the time.  Fenris, Merrill, and Josephine have their sexuality questioned specifically because they don't bring it up.  Despite many of the same posters complaining that they want 'more realistic' characters, they continue to only accept bisexuals if they only fit into a single representation.

 

Yes, you nailed it.  It is exasperating to see this take place.

 

Regarding the KISA and them bringing up their sexuality, I don't think that it needs to tie into their personal quest again the way it did with Dorian. I liked Dorian's quest and what Gaider did with it, but I don't think every gay character (especially male characters as we saw with Steve) needs to have drama tied in with their sexuality. The drama can come from some other aspect of their character and/or other personal issues. Dorian's sexuality wasn't the entirety of his personal issues with his father, but it was bound tightly with the drama of his character. 

 

On the other hand, neither would I want the KISA's sexuality to be revealed through stories or examples of promiscuous behavior, whether gay or bisexual.  It just doesn't fit what I'd personally like to see in a gay/bisexual character yet again, let alone a KISA.  

 

So if the KISA's non-heterosexuality is to be mentioned or utilized in some way in the story, I would like something different from the ways it has been done.

 

How would you all go about planning the 'reveal' of the KISA's sexuality?  Would you want it tied to his or her personal quest again?  Would you prefer it to be very understated and a non-issue?  Would you like some sort of middle ground?  How would you guys handle it if it were up to you?

[TheJediSaint]

 

How would you all go about planning the 'reveal' of the KISA's sexuality?  Would you want it tied to his or her personal quest again?  Would you prefer it to be very understated and a non-issue?  Would you like some sort of middle ground?  How would you guys handle it if it were up to you?

Take Omar Little from the Wire, put him in shining armor.

[sandalisthemaker]

Take Omar Little from the Wire, put him in shining armor.

 

So a badass, very masculine guy who just happens to be gay.  Omar is too roguish in personality, but I get what you are saying.

 

I would like this.  It would provide balance with what we've gotten.  I don't think every gay character has to have their sexuality be tied with their main quest.  

[TheJediSaint]

So a badass, very masculine guy who just happens to be gay.  Omar is too roguish in personality, but I get what you are saying.

 

I would like this.  It would provide balance with what we've gotten.  I don't think every gay character has to have their sexuality be tied with their main quest.  

I mean I know there's a desire for a "Knightly" character.  But what if instead of a courtly knight, the "KISA" was simply a man with a code?

 

Edit:  That way, his character arc is more about exploring his code and how he sticks to it.  His sexuality would be present, but incidental unless the player romances him.

[sandalisthemaker]

I mean I know there's a desire for a "Knightly" character.  But what if instead of a courtly knight, the "KISA" was simply a man with a code?

 

That could work, but I would prefer not to have to keep seeing gay or bisexual (especially bisexual) characters having 'darker' natures and questionable morals and the virtuous characters mostly being the straight ones. 

 

Personally I would prefer a courtly, gay or bisexual knight.   A badass on the battlefield, but also sweet and chivalrous off the field.

[TheJediSaint]

That could work, but I would prefer not to have to keep seeing gay or bisexual (especially bisexual) characters having 'darker' natures and questionable morals and the virtuous characters mostly being the straight ones. 

 

Personally I would prefer a courtly, chivalrous gay or bisexual knight. 

 

Granted Omar Little is a pretty edgy character, but that wasn't quite were I was going.

 

A "Man with a code" can be the kindest, most compassionate person there is.  What sets him apart is that he chooses what he believes to be right or wrong, rather than being told what is right and wrong by someone in authority, be it the Chantry or a lord.

 

Think a good-aligned version of Nietzsche's Ubermensch.