7143 réponses à ce sujet

[Seraphim24]

I'm not like against the idea fundamentally, of having your completely homosexual or bisexual or whatever characters with unique personalities. Again, I wish people would stop putting me in that category or associating me with people that don't want to discuss orientation or have some kind of other agenda. If for some reason we're all insisting on putting orientations in a game I'd much rather see them as unique and not fit typical stereotypes as well. That could go for bisexual, or pansexual, or any variety of other kind of character.

 

I'm just suggesting that this might be more complicated and might not necessarily have the impact you desire.... you could even say I'm trying to go past the simple idea of character X or Y does this or that in order to point things in terms of really resonant characters to make everyone more happy. Would you rather I simply passively support a cause like "Yes, ok for homosexual KISA," because I could easily do that, and not actually push into how this is really going to create a substantive emotional impact? It seems to me I'm being nicer than people who are willing to just rubber stamp your cause, they might seem more palatable to you right now, but I'm trying to press people to actually consider whether this will create a trans formative experience.

 

I myself am kind of curious about a character that is sexually active in a variety of unique ways but doesn't label their behavior, maybe is just kind of experimentalist. I suppose they already kind of covered this with Isabella or certain people at times. I'm also interested in the norms of virginity and sort of questioning it's place (Freya in ancient Scandinavian religions was basically the party sex girl, which was abhorrent to the Christians who kind of wrote her out in favor of a purer Mary Magdalena like image). In other words, the norms of society weren't always strictly in favor of this pure and chaste sort of image.

 

But, I'm pretty sure (and I saw David Gaider himself write this) Bioware fans are seem to be emphasizing orientation as if it will magically transform people's experiences... and it seems worthwhile at some point to question the greater purpose.... that's all... not trying to hurt anyone.

[daveliam]

I have a question that popped in my head about this and could change the subject.

When it comes to the KISA's sexual preferences, what would you like it to be? Would you want them to have been waiting for the right person to come along, or have been around, or somewhere in between?

For me, I don't have a strong preference. I'd rather not have him be promiscuous or indulgent in casual sex because that doesn't really jive with the archetype (plus has unfortunate side implications being the stereotypes around bisexual and gay men). But on the other hand, I don't need him to be a blushing virgin.

I guess I'd be most happy with a guy who takes relationships seriously and is dedicated and committed once he's attached. I have no issues with him having a few serious relationships in the past that just didn't work out, provided it doesn't fall into the promiscuous thing that I mentioned. At least those are my thoughts in it.

[Grieving Natashina]

For me, I don't have a strong preference. I'd rather not have him be promiscuous or indulgent in casual sex because that doesn't really jive with the archetype (plus has unfortunate side implications being the stereotypes around bisexual and gay men). But on the other hand, I don't need him to be a blushing virgin.

I guess I'd be most happy with a guy who takes relationships seriously and is dedicated and committed once he's attached. I have no issues with him having a few serious relationships in the past that just didn't work out, provided it doesn't fall into the promiscuous thing that I mentioned. At least those are my thoughts in it.

Goodness knows that straight KISAs have had that enough.  

 

 I don't want someone as experienced as, say, Zevran or Isabela, but I'm a little tired of the blushing virgin archetype.  It seems to come up a lot in the KISA like characters.

[TheJediSaint]

Cassandra may have blushed, but she was no virgin.

[Grieving Natashina]

Cassandra may have blushed, but she was no virgin.

True enough and it's very welcome, but the last companion I can think of that fit as a male KISA archetype was Alistair.   I've seen a lot of stories where the KISA was a virgin as much as his Lady Fair.  

[Lady Artifice]

Let me just jump in so I can plug using "they" as a gender-neutral pronoun.

 

It's a bit archaic, but technically correct singular pronoun for when gender is indeterminate.

 

Thank you for your time.

 

I endorse this public service message. 

[DirkJake]

I have a question that popped in my head about this and could change the subject. 

 

When it comes to the KISA's sexual preferences, what would you like it to be? Would you want them to have been waiting for the right person to come along, or have been around, or somewhere in between?

 

Somewhere in between sounds great to me. And yes I want the gay KISA to take relationship quite seriously. Though I do have a soft spot for those who are less experienced. 

 

One thing that I would not like to see is the "I didn't realize I am gay until I've met you" trope. There is nothing really wrong with that trope, but it just annoys me. I like the gay KISA to be secure in their sexuality, considering that homosexuality is generally not that controversial in Thedas. 

[Semyaza82]

I'm trying to press people to actually consider whether this will create a trans formative experience.

The point I was trying to make when i quoted you before is that I don't think anyone is suggesting that a gay KISA would be a 'transformative experience', more than that I don't think anyone is suggesting that it should be one. It is simply a character type we haven't seen yet that we would enjoy seeing. I think you are looking for a deeper meaning in this than has actually been suggested.

Should add that I'm giving my take on whats been said, so if anyone did actually envision this as a far deeper thing just tell me to shut up

[dgcatanisiri]

I have a question that popped in my head about this and could change the subject. 

 

When it comes to the KISA's sexual preferences, what would you like it to be? Would you want them to have been waiting for the right person to come along, or have been around, or somewhere in between?

 

Somewhere in between would be best IMO - I think the idea of a KISA isn't completely compatible with someone who's prone to casual sex, but at the same time, I think that 'waiting for the right person' could get taken as them being a case of 'if it's you it's okay' with a same-sex PC, rather than this is a character who fits into the KISA archtype and is gay. So I'd be happiest with there being explicit references to a prior relationship with a person of the same gender, but equally explicit that the relationship is done and over with and they've moved on.

[Seraphim24]

The point I was trying to make when i quoted you before is that I don't think anyone is suggesting that a gay KISA would be a 'transformative experience', more than that I don't think anyone is suggesting that it should be one. It is simply a character type we haven't seen yet that we would enjoy seeing. I think you are looking for a deeper meaning in this than has actually been suggested.

Should add that I'm giving my take on whats been said, so if anyone did actually envision this as a far deeper thing just tell me to shut up

 

Well ok, I'm not going to bother with this more, but if you look at this in terms of not just homosexuals, but I don't know, bisexuals, pansexuals, sadomasochists, the ever spiraling spheres of this and that it seems to me getting bogged down in having each thing represented this or that way would only be a kind of temporary solution before you are inundated to the point of stagnation. It seems to me some way to harmonize all these issues is just not to fixate on the sex portion itself, but I'm not going to keep going down this path if you guys just want this narrowly focused thing it's probably fine.

[Gaesesagai]

Well ok, I'm not going to bother with this more, but if you look at this in terms of not just homosexuals, but I don't know, bisexuals, pansexuals, sadomasochists, the ever spiraling spheres of this and that it seems to me getting bogged down in having each thing represented this or that way would only be a kind of temporary solution before you are inundated to the point of stagnation. It seems to me some way to harmonize all these issues is just not to fixate on the sex portion itself, but I'm not going to keep going down this path if you guys just want this narrowly focused thing it's probably fine.

 

Well besides nonsense and logical fallacies galore, you also seem to be confused about what sexual orientation is, evidenced by your naive placing of sadomasochists in same category as gay, bi, etc. Obviously you are obstinately refusing to admit you don't want the icky gay in your games, and try to disguise it in what I'm sure is meant as intelligent and educated speech (but sadly fails to live up to your expectation), which is by the way, nothing new, so any attempts at dialogue with you are pointless. At least calling you out on it, though even this feels boringly useless. 

[Semyaza82]

Well ok, I'm not going to bother with this more, but if you look at this in terms of not just homosexuals, but I don't know, bisexuals, pansexuals, sadomasochists, the ever spiraling spheres of this and that it seems to me getting bogged down in having each thing represented this or that way would only be a kind of temporary solution before you are inundated to the point of stagnation. It seems to me some way to harmonize all these issues is just not to fixate on the sex portion itself, but I'm not going to keep going down this path if you guys just want this narrowly focused thing it's probably fine.

I'm honestly not trying to attack you or anything like it, but you seem to be missing my point. I'm just saying that this isn't being proposed as a solution to anything. Just something we'd enjoying seeing. A thread with players saying they would like a female elf romance option for male PC's in future games isn't automatically saying they are trying to fix something - they are just talking about something they would enjoy seeing in a future game. That's really all this thread is about.

[Grieving Natashina]

Guys, the person some of you are quoting was the same person that spent several pages in a thread asking for skimpier armor for female characters insulting people.  Calling folks puritans and prudes (and other things I'm not getting into here) because other posters felt that the DA setting was not the place for skimpy armor on female characters.  They are only here to derail the thread.  Let's not feed them.  

 

Sorry for not answering yesterday, Hana.  I feel the same way some of the other posters here.  I don't want my character to be the KISA's first, but at the same time I want them to be the type that has a had a few very special relationships.  I think we could all live without Carth syndrome, but someone that is more experienced emotionally would be welcome.  

 

The sexual aspect oftentimes ties into that, but after some careful thought, whether or not a character is a virgin sexually doesn't factor in much for me.  Having the emotional confidence would much better.  If the KISA was interested in my character after some flirting, I wouldn't want them to beat around the bush in stating their feelings.  They wouldn't have to try to jump my characters bones right away, but at least just say, "Yes, I like you," without being terribly shy about it.   I wouldn't want them to be as direct as Bull is before his first scene, but...maybe a little stammering than some of the other KISAs have been.  Alistair and Cullen, while both awesome characters, are a great example of stammering and blushing.

 

I hope I'm making sense.  I'm going to lay back down for a bit more sleep in a little while.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

For me, I don't have a strong preference. I'd rather not have him be promiscuous or indulgent in casual sex because that doesn't really jive with the archetype (plus has unfortunate side implications being the stereotypes around bisexual and gay men). But on the other hand, I don't need him to be a blushing virgin.

I guess I'd be most happy with a guy who takes relationships seriously and is dedicated and committed once he's attached. I have no issues with him having a few serious relationships in the past that just didn't work out, provided it doesn't fall into the promiscuous thing that I mentioned. At least those are my thoughts in it.

Somewhere in between sounds great to me. And yes I want the gay KISA to take relationship quite seriously. Though I do have a soft spot for those who are less experienced. 

 

One thing that I would not like to see is the "I didn't realize I am gay until I've met you" trope. There is nothing really wrong with that trope, but it just annoys me. I like the gay KISA to be secure in their sexuality, considering that homosexuality is generally not that controversial in Thedas. 

Sorry for not answering yesterday, Hana.  I feel the same way some of the other posters here.  I don't want my character to be the KISA's first, but at the same time I want them to be the type that has a had a few very special relationships.  I think we could all live without Carth syndrome, but someone that is more experienced emotionally would be welcome.  

 

The sexual aspect oftentimes ties into that, but after some careful thought, whether or not a character is a virgin sexually doesn't factor in much for me.  Having the emotional confidence would much better.  If the KISA was interested in my character after some flirting, I wouldn't want them to beat around the bush in stating their feelings.  They wouldn't have to try to jump my characters bones right away, but at least just say, "Yes, I like you," without being terribly shy about it.   I wouldn't want them to be as direct as Bull is before his first scene, but...maybe a little stammering than some of the other KISAs have been.  Alistair and Cullen, while both awesome characters, are a great example of stammering and blushing.

 

I hope I'm making sense.  I'm going to lay back down for a bit more sleep in a little while.

Somewhere in between would be best IMO - I think the idea of a KISA isn't completely compatible with someone who's prone to casual sex, but at the same time, I think that 'waiting for the right person' could get taken as them being a case of 'if it's you it's okay' with a same-sex PC, rather than this is a character who fits into the KISA archtype and is gay. So I'd be happiest with there being explicit references to a prior relationship with a person of the same gender, but equally explicit that the relationship is done and over with and they've moved on.

 

Okay. About the answers I expected. Thank you for answering. 

[(Disgusted noise.)]

For the record, I would also prefer something in between. I'm not a fan of the Zevran/Isabela/Bull approach (and am actively sick of it being regulated to queer characters), but I'm also not big on the Alistair/Merrill/Cullen style blushing, awkward semi-virgin. I find that to be a bit of a turn off, although it wouldn't keep me from romancing a character I liked because of it.

[daveliam]

For the record, I would also prefer something in between. I'm not a fan of the Zevran/Isabela/Bull approach (and am actively sick of it being regulated to queer characters), but I'm also not big on the Alistair/Merrill/Cullen style blushing, awkward semi-virgin. I find that to be a bit of a turn off, although it wouldn't keep me from romancing a character I liked because of it.

 

Agreed that it wouldn't stop me either way.  If I had to pick one extreme or the other for this archetype, I'd go with the latter as: 1.) the former doesn't work so well with this character type; and 2.) I completely agree that the promiscuous queer character is getting tired......

[XxPrincess(x)ThreatxX]

For the record, I would also prefer something in between. I'm not a fan of the Zevran/Isabela/Bull approach (and am actively sick of it being regulated to queer characters)

Would be a change if a straight character was given the "highly flirty & enjoys sex alot" personality instead of it being almost exclusively given to bisexual characters, gets very old seeing that over & over again

[Hanako Ikezawa]

Me personally, and I know this comes as no big surprise to those who know me, I would prefer the protagonist being the character's first or failing that have at most only a couple past partners. Not a fan of promiscuous characters since I don't get that mindset.   

[daveliam]

Me personally, and I know this comes as no big surprise to those who know me, I would prefer the protagonist being the character's first or failing that have at most only a couple past partners. Not a fan of promiscuous characters since I don't get that mindset.   

 

Really?  I'm shocked!  You could knock me over with a feather after that revelation!  

[Hanako Ikezawa]

Really?  I'm shocked!  You could knock me over with a feather after that revelation!  

I know, right? It'd be like you saying you hope a male character you like was attracted to men.

[HuldraDancer]

Kind of already passed sort of but I second the people wanting something more in the middle of those two kind of characters.

[ThreeF]

For the record, I would also prefer something in between. I'm not a fan of the Zevran/Isabela/Bull approach (and am actively sick of it being regulated to queer characters), but I'm also not big on the Alistair/Merrill/Cullen style blushing, awkward semi-virgin. I find that to be a bit of a turn off, although it wouldn't keep me from romancing a character I liked because of it.

Cullen pretty much pulls a switch in such a way that it generally makes me think that the whole awkward thing had to do with him being an introvert and a buttoned up professional (with a bit of a devout  Andrastian on the side, I mean for him it was probably like flirting with Jesus.)

 

Not sure if fan of promiscuous character, depends on why and how. (well that goes for everything, really)

[ComedicSociopathy]

Would be a change if a straight character was given the "highly flirty & enjoys sex alot" personality instead of it being almost exclusively given to bisexual characters, gets very old seeing that over & over again

 

Morrigan's straight and she seems to enjoy sex and flirts with the Male Warden. Sera's homosexual and she definitely enjoys having sex with the Inquisitor. In fact, she makes that abundantly clear to everyone at the endgame party. 

 

I don't think the highly "highly flirty & enjoys sex" personality type is exclusive to bisexual characters but yes they do seem to get that a lot. 

[(Disgusted noise.)]

Cullen pretty much pulls a switch in such a way that it generally makes me think that the whole awkward thing had to do with him being an introvert and an buttoned up professional (with a bit of a devout  Andrastian on the side, I mean for him it was probably like flirting with Jesus.)

 

Not sure if fan of promiscuous character, depends on why and how. (well that goes for everything, really)

Yeah, I'm aware he gets more assertive later on. It's still something they played with though, and I'm really just not a fan of bashfulness regardless of the source.

 

And I don't have anything promiscuity necessarily. Unless I'm possibly getting involved with someone, I generally don't think it's my business. As love interests, I'm indifferent about Zevran, love Isabela, and dislike Iron Bull, but it's just not a trait I find attractive and the repetitive nature of it with bisexual characters leaves a bad taste in my mouth since that's already a incredibly common and destructive stereotype about bisexuals (and to a lesser extent other queer people).