7143 réponses à ce sujet

[daveliam]

Hmm, coulda sworn Cullen was bi. Maybe I just saw the heart on a dialog option and ASSumed he was.

Anyways seems you're right then. That is kinda odd. So what male NPC's actually are GAY only then?

 

Both Cullen and Cassandra will allow s/s PC's to flirt with them (Cullen twice before he shoots you down; Cass numerous times before she shoots you down). 

 

Alistair (DA: O) - straight

Zevran (DA: O) - bisexual

Anders (DA2) - bisexual

Fenris (DA2) - bisexual

Sebastian (DA2) - straight

Blackwall (DA: I) - straight

Iron Bull (DA: I) - pansexual

Dorian (DA: I) - gay

Solas (DA: I ) - straight (elf only)

Cullen (DA: I ) - straight (human/elf only)

[Grieving Natashina]

 

Hmm, coulda sworn Cullen was bi. Maybe I just saw the heart on a dialog option and ASSumed he was.

Anyways seems you're right then. That is kinda odd. So what male NPC's actually are GAY only then?

 

Natashina what I ment by the inquisitors all being bisexual is that you really ARE limited by what the NPC's sexual preferences are. NOT what you would like choose. Meaning, as far as game code is concerned we are all treated as bisexuals and can litteraly HIT on anyone we want but success depends entirely on the NPC's preference. That's all I meant by that. Hopefully that makes more sense or at least SOME sense. And yes, it does feel limiting to me because not everyone is gonna dig the same companions and even want a romance with them. Honestly it really doesn't matter. It wouldn't hurt my gameplay at all really if romance options didn't exist but sense it's there it'd be nice if it wasn't limited.

 

And thanks for the info on D2. I'll prolly try it out then because the story is really the biggest thing for me in DA games anyways. But wtf? "enemies literally fall from the sky". That sounds horrible?

 

I get your meaning, but I don't see the Inquisitor as bisexual by default.  It's a lot like real life: You can flirt with whomever you like, but not everyone is going to respond.   If you're not bisexual/pansexual or gay/lesbian, then chances are you're not going to flirt with someone of your own gender anyways.  The Inquisitor, when it comes to sexuality, is a blank slate on purpose.  The Inquisitor is nothing without the person behind it to guide it.  It's up to the player to decide.

 

My first Inquisitor was a bi lady dwarf that fell for Iron Bull (just because she fell for a guy didn't make her straight,) my second was a straight lady human that fell for Cullen.  There is no default setting really.  In real life, I'm a bisexual woman happily married to a man.  I've played straight men too (Garrett Hawke w/ Merrill,) and while I'm waiting for a couple of patches to drop, I have a gay man I'm getting ready to play.  It's not in my usual comfort zone, but I'm happy to try something new because Dorian is just that awesome.

 

I don't want my sexuality treated like a generic gameplay mechanic.   Some folks just aren't going to be into the player's gender.  Not everyone is bi in life (duh) but not everyone in Thedas is bisexual either.  I still don't see the "limitation" you're speaking of, other than wanting everyone to be available to both genders of PC.  That doesn't sit well with me, and I think making everyone bi is a very poor substitute for new ideas and representation.  

 

Some folks are gay, some are lesbian, some are straight, some are bisexual and some are asexual.  Thedas does mirror our world quite a bit, and I know that in this area it's just the same.  The people of Thedas may not use those terms, but the terms don't change who they are attracted to.   I mentioned asexuality because Karen and Patrick Weekes in particular seemed very interested in that idea when asked about it at GaymerX.   I'm finding more variety in this game for looks, personality and goals of the romances than I have in the past.  While staying away from just making everyone bi for the sake of player romances, we're starting to get more in-depth stories imho.

 

As far as the combat in DA2 goes, I personally think it's more goofy than horrible.  Enemies tend to show up in waves.  The first is the enemies you spot, then the next wave drops down from usually the same general area as the mobs you just killed.   Once you learn the general pattern, it isn't that bad even on Hard/Nightmare.

[200Down]

Both Cullen and Cassandra will allow s/s PC's to flirt with them (Cullen twice before he shoots you down; Cass numerous times before she shoots you down). 

 

Alistair (DA: O) - straight

Zevran (DA: O) - bisexual

Anders (DA2) - bisexual

Fenris (DA2) - bisexual

Sebastian (DA2) - straight

Blackwall (DA: I) - straight

Iron Bull (DA: I) - pansexual

Dorian (DA: I) - gay

Solas (DA: I ) - straight (elf only)

Cullen (DA: I ) - straight (human/elf only)

lol so technicaly they give you ONE gay only guy? WOW At least he's HOT right(hey I may be straight but I'm not blinde haha). I always take dorian as my mage anymore. Less anoying banter than the rest imo. That and him and Sera have some funny banter... actually Sera has some good banter with just about everyone although sometimes it can get awfully childish. She's worth taking on one playthrough though if you haven't just to hear all the different banter. But yea, her and Dorian really get along well second would prolly be her and Bull.

 

Telling yas.. just make them all BI and remove the stupid racial blocks. Gotta be better than ONE gay guy. If they can't do better than that then just leave the choice completely up to the player.

[daveliam]

lol so technicaly they give you ONE gay only guy? WOW At least he's HOT right(hey I may be straight but I'm not blinde haha). I always take dorian as my mage anymore. Less anoying banter than the rest imo. That and him and Sera have some funny banter... actually Sera has some good banter with just about everyone although sometimes it can get awfully childish. She's worth taking on one playthrough though if you haven't just to hear all the different banter. But yea, her and Dorian reallyfight get along well second would prolly be her and Bull.

 

Telling yas.. just make them all BI and remove the stupid racial blocks. Gotta be better than ONE gay guy. If they can't do better than that then just leave the choice completely up to the player.

 

I actually like the fact that Dorian is gay and not bisexual.  It's really refreshing to see an openly gay male character in a video game.  There are so few of them.  I prefer the variety of sexualities approach, personally (race-gating, I'm not sold on).  But I think it's great that we've finally, for the first time in Bioware's history, gotten a gay male companion who can actually fight and isn't relegated to the sidelines.  So far, in all of Bioware's games, there have only been three gay/lesbian companions:  Juhani (in KOTOR), Sera (DA:I), and Dorian (DA:I).  The only other gay characters (Steve and Samantha in ME3) were non-playable NPC characters. 

[Mihura]

I actually like the fact that Dorian is gay and not bisexual.  It's really refreshing to see an openly gay male character in a video game.  There are so few of them.  I prefer the variety of sexualities approach, personally (race-gating, I'm not sold on).  But I think it's great that we've finally, for the first time in Bioware's history, gotten a gay male companion who can actually fight and isn't relegated to the sidelines.  So far, in all of Bioware's games, there have only been three gay/lesbian companions:  Juhani (in KOTOR), Sera (DA:I), and Dorian (DA:I).  The only other gay characters (Steve and Samantha in ME3) were non-playable NPC characters. 

 

I like the variety too but I still think we suffer with the restrictions, the day I can have the same choices as all the hetero players is the day I would be ok with variety(which I doubt is going to happen again).

Till than if they do not have the money I will always prioritize the DA 2 approach. Everyone gets the same. I was kinda ****** to have only one romance for my Female Inquisitors (Sera that I even did not liked) in the companions, it felt even worse than DA 2.

[daveliam]

I like the variety too but I still think we suffer with the restrictions, the day I can have the same choices as all the hetero players is the day I would be ok with variety(which I doubt is going to happen again).

Till than if they do not have the money I will always prioritize the DA 2 approach. Everyone gets the same. I was kinda ****** to have only one romance for my Female Inquisitors (Sera that I even did not liked) in the companions, it felt even worse than DA 2.

 

The NPC romance thing is interesting.  In ME3, it was pretty clear that the NPCs got a smaller word budget and their romances weren't as fleshed out as the squad members.  In DA: I, the devs went out of their way to message that Cullen and Josephine had the same word budget, so no one was losing out on content by having an NPC as an option.  But it seems people really prefer having a companion/squad member as their romance.  I'd just like to make sure that it continues to get spread around a bit.  If we take ME3 and DA: I together, then straight guys, straight gals, and gay guys have all had one NPC option, but lesbians have had two.  It would be nice if they ensured that lesbians don't keep getting NPC options because many people certainly see that as a less favorable LI option. 

[200Down]

 

 

 

I get your meaning, but I don't see the Inquisitor as bisexual by default.  It's a lot like real life: You can flirt with whomever you like, but not everyone is going to respond.   If you're not bisexual/pansexual or gay/lesbian, then chances are you're not going to flirt with someone of your own gender anyways.  The Inquisitor, when it comes to sexuality, is a blank slate on purpose.  The Inquisitor is nothing without the person behind it to guide it.  It's up to the player to decide.

 

My first Inquisitor was a bi lady dwarf that fell for Iron Bull (just because she fell for a guy didn't make her straight,) my second was a straight lady human that fell for Cullen.  There is no default setting really.  In real life, I'm a bisexual woman happily married to a man.  I've played straight men too (Garrett Hawke w/ Merrill,) and while I'm waiting for a couple of patches to drop, I have a gay man I'm getting ready to play.  It's not in my usual comfort zone, but I'm happy to try something new because Dorian is just that awesome.

 

I don't want my sexuality treated like a generic gameplay mechanic.   Some folks just aren't going to be into the player's gender.  Not everyone is bi in life (duh) but not everyone in Thedas is bisexual either.  I still don't see the "limitation" you're speaking of, other than wanting everyone to be available to both genders of PC.  That doesn't sit well with me, and I think making everyone bi is a very poor substitute for new ideas and representation.  

 

Some folks are gay, some are lesbian, some are straight, some are bisexual and some are asexual.  Thedas does mirror our world quite a bit, and I know that in this area it's just the same.  The people of Thedas may not use those terms, but the terms don't change who they are attracted to.   I mentioned asexuality because Karen and Patrick Weekes in particular seemed very interested in that idea when asked about it at GaymerX.   I'm finding more variety in this game for looks, personality and goals of the romances than I have in the past.  While staying away from just making everyone bi for the sake of player romances, we're starting to get more in-depth stories imho.

 

As far as the combat in DA2 goes, I personally think it's more goofy than horrible.  Enemies tend to show up in waves.  The first is the enemies you spot, then the next wave drops down from usually the same general area as the mobs you just killed.   Once you learn the general pattern, it isn't that bad even on Hard/Nightmare.

 

I think I'm missing something. Are you taking offense to what I said about game code? Are you thinkin that I'm somehow calling everyone bisexuals in RL? Well if you are then I guess I oppologize for not being clearer and nothing was ment as a personal JAB to you or anyone else for that matter. OR, did I just ruin your DAI life because you'll be thinking that your charracter is actually BI for the rest of your playthroughs? LOL ok so maybe the bisexual game code was a little much but really you gotta breath. It is just a game. OR IS IT?!?!? I sure hope so because I've been a bad bad boy if not and I'm gonna have a few words with my GF about her and Sera to.

[200Down]

Even if everyone is technically BI it's not like the game has to openly anounce it. Just like they do with Dorian being gay. I didn't even know he was gay and not BI untel you told me and I've been using him forever. He's never said a thing because I never tried to romance him. But I did use all his other dialog options multiple times and he never said a word about being gay that I can recal(unless it was banter that I missed). Nobody is openly anything if you don't try and romance them are they? Maybe I missed something.. I usually do HAHA

 

Guess the point is why would it be a problem that everyone was techinally BI if the game doesn't anounce it? I meen do most DA players romance the same charracters with multiple sex's? Hell I'd play a girl but I have a hard time relating to my main charracter being a girl in a game that is this story heavy. MMO's I usually do play girls because story is normaly meh.

[DirkJake]

Even if everyone is technically BI it's not like the game has to openly anounce it. Just like they do with Dorian being gay. I didn't even know he was gay and not BI untel you told me and I've been using him forever. He's never said a thing because I never tried to romance him. But I did use all his other dialog options multiple times and he never said a word about being gay that I can recal(unless it was banter that I missed). Nobody is openly anything if you don't try and romance them are they? Maybe I missed something.. I usually do HAHA

 

Guess the point is why would it be a problem that everyone was techinally BI if the game doesn't anounce it? I meen do most DA players romance the same charracters with multiple sex's? Hell I'd play a girl but I have a hard time relating to my main charracter being a girl in a game that is this story heavy. MMO's I usually do play girls because story is normaly meh.

 

Did you do Dorian's personal quest (Last Resort of Good Men)? In the dialogue options, it is very clear to me that he's gay.

 

And on making everyone bisexual, one of the problems I have is described nicely by David Gaider here:

 

 

 

And that was more like - I said this every time we talked about the romance system for DA2, for instance. Every time I said that if we had the resources, if we had enough romances to go around, I would prefer to have set sexualities. And that making all of them bisexual is a compromise of sorts - not one I really like, because bisexuality itself is not a compromise - it's a distinct sexuality. But, I didn't want to tell four bisexual stories so it even varied in DA2. Isabela, for instance, is very open about her sexuality. She talks about romancing either sex. Then you go all the way to Merrill, who doesn't mention it at all, and the idea was to leave room for ambiguity, but where we ultimately ended up on is that ambiguity wasn't necessarily helpful. I know some people like it, some people really hated it, some people diluted their characters and that led to...that sort of ran down a road of where people called player-sexuality, which isn't a term I really like. Because it implies the player's perception of their sexuality dictates their sexuality.. dictates the reality of their sexuality. So, that if you're a man romancing Merrill, because she never talks about her sexuality, that lets to pretend that she's straight if you like? But you seeing her as straight does not make her straight. She is bisexual, even if you're not exposed to that. That's the same as a bisexual person - a bisexual woman could be in a current romance in a man. That doesn't make her straight - that makes her bisexual. Us changing that wasn't that we didn't want to deal with that - it's that... okay, getting away from that ambiguity with that - okay, we like to have set sexualities so we can tell different stories. We can have actual representation. We can tell stories so that they are bisexual stories adjacent to gay stories and straight stories, as well. It's about having all types of people and not needing the ambiguity means we can include having that part of their character.

 

For me, it comes down to this: bisexual representation cannot compensate gay representation. They are different and distinct.

 

On the contrary, I actually like DA2, despite its considerable number of flaws (such as some certain creatures falling on top my head, some fights being ridiculously difficult). I like my companions (yes, I like Anders even more than in DAA). I like the tragic story of Hawke and some moments

Spoiler

Hawke's mother died

 that make me cry a little inside   . 

[Sarielle]

 

 

 If you're not bisexual/pansexual or gay/lesbian, then chances are you're not going to flirt with someone of your own gender anyways. 

 

 

I got the impression that Dorian enjoys flirting with a female Inquisitor. Not that he's interested, but that it's a fun, harmless exchange for both parties.

 

I dunno. Where I'm from polite flirting is just ... a social grace? Like, it's totally lighthearted and it doesn't mean anything -- and both parties know that. I can see same-sex exchanges like this as flirting.

 

But it's also totally possible my own experiences are just heavily colouring my perspective.

[In Exile]

The NPC romance thing is interesting. In ME3, it was pretty clear that the NPCs got a smaller word budget and their romances weren't as fleshed out as the squad members. In DA: I, the devs went out of their way to message that Cullen and Josephine had the same word budget, so no one was losing out on content by having an NPC as an option. But it seems people really prefer having a companion/squad member as their romance. I'd just like to make sure that it continues to get spread around a bit. If we take ME3 and DA: I together, then straight guys, straight gals, and gay guys have all had one NPC option, but lesbians have had two. It would be nice if they ensured that lesbians don't keep getting NPC options because many people certainly see that as a less favorable LI option.

The problem with the NPC romances is that we don't have banter. Not romance-specific banter, but any kind of banter at all. I feel I learned a lot about, say, Dorian and Cass through their banters (well, Dorian at least; Cass was more someone the party played off from). Then again it may be that I can totally communicate exclusively via sarcasm and that's Dorian's second language (sass is obviously his third, and *clearly* that's not just a dialect).

[Hanako Ikezawa]

And on making everyone bisexual, one of the problems I have is described nicely by David Gaider here:

And that was more like - I said this every time we talked about the romance system for DA2, for instance. Every time I said that if we had the resources, if we had enough romances to go around, I would prefer to have set sexualities. And that making all of them bisexual is a compromise of sorts - not one I really like, because bisexuality itself is not a compromise - it's a distinct sexuality. But, I didn't want to tell four bisexual stories so it even varied in DA2. Isabela, for instance, is very open about her sexuality. She talks about romancing either sex. Then you go all the way to Merrill, who doesn't mention it at all, and the idea was to leave room for ambiguity, but where we ultimately ended up on is that ambiguity wasn't necessarily helpful. I know some people like it, some people really hated it, some people diluted their characters and that led to...that sort of ran down a road of where people called player-sexuality, which isn't a term I really like. Because it implies the player's perception of their sexuality dictates their sexuality.. dictates the reality of their sexuality. So, that if you're a man romancing Merrill, because she never talks about her sexuality, that lets to pretend that she's straight if you like? But you seeing her as straight does not make her straight. She is bisexual, even if you're not exposed to that. That's the same as a bisexual person - a bisexual woman could be in a current romance in a man. That doesn't make her straight - that makes her bisexual. Us changing that wasn't that we didn't want to deal with that - it's that... okay, getting away from that ambiguity with that - okay, we like to have set sexualities so we can tell different stories. We can have actual representation. We can tell stories so that they are bisexual stories adjacent to gay stories and straight stories, as well. It's about having all types of people and not needing the ambiguity means we can include having that part of their character.

Even with him gone from Dragon Age, Gaider continues to torment me. 

[AresKeith]

The problem with the NPC romances is that we don't have banter. Not romance-specific banter, but any kind of banter at all. I feel I learned a lot about, say, Dorian and Cass through their banters (well, Dorian at least; Cass was more someone the party played off from). Then again it may be that I can totally communicate exclusively via sarcasm and that's Dorian's second language (sass is obviously his third, and *clearly* that's not just a dialect).

 

They do have banter, they just don't have banter with the other companions which I agree they should have but word budget

[In Exile]

They do have banter, they just don't have banter with the other companions which I agree they should have but word budget

 

What banter? The few things they say to each other during the war table? That's not really the same kind of banter. 

[(Disgusted noise.)]

What banter? The few things they say to each other during the war table? That's not really the same kind of banter. 

It is banter though, but I agree that it's not of the same quality. You don't learn anything new about them by listening to it. Other than the Cullen and Josephine romance specific ones, it's really all funny fluff stuff or ambiguous war stuff.

 

Anyway, I didn't mind the NPC romances. I've done both Cullen and Josephine's, and while neither are absolute favorites of mine, their NPC status had nothing to do with it.

[ThreeF]

The problem with the NPC romances is that we don't have banter. Not romance-specific banter, but any kind of banter at all. I feel I learned a lot about, say, Dorian and Cass through their banters (well, Dorian at least; Cass was more someone the party played off from). Then again it may be that I can totally communicate exclusively via sarcasm and that's Dorian's second language (sass is obviously his third, and *clearly* that's not just a dialect).

Hmm...I wouldn't mind to learn more about Cullen and actually do stuff with him and all, but I think you learn quite a bit about him during his screen time. You do learn some things through the WT banter too (aside from the obvious things about the advisor's dynamic and his traits as the military one), like for instance there is this slight charming intonation where he points out that Leliana enjoyed the Winter Palace party, something between worry and fear, that one tells things. Of course 11 min banter between 3 people, can't compare to 5 and half hours of the companions, but on the other hand I've yet to exhaust all the banter between companions even if i count all the pt together. You also learn things through the WT missions themselves and the advises/reports there. Generally I don't think I've missed out much on that front.

[BabyPuncher]

You know, I really think BioWare spent too much time and effort on ultimately irrelevant romance content as it is.

 

It's just banter. It really doesn't make that big of a difference.

[ThreeF]

You know, I really think BioWare spent too much time and effort on ultimately irrelevant romance content as it is.

 

It's just banter. It really doesn't make that big of a difference.

In terms of romance? Probably not, at least for some of the characters and from what I get  there isn't that much romance related banter to begin with. However, in general sense, as an additional tool for fleshing out characters, it is a great thing to have. Plus banter is one of the things that keeps me playing the game, because there is always something new I bump into.  

[BabyPuncher]

It doesn't flesh out characters in ways that particularly matter.

[ThreeF]

It doesn't flesh out characters in ways that particularly matter.

Maybe to you?  Unless we understand fleshing out and the purpose of it differently.

[(Disgusted noise.)]

It doesn't flesh out characters in ways that particularly matter.

That's just ridiculous. Hell, some characters are almost exclusively fleshed out through their romance arcs.

[God]

You know, when he says 'ways that matter', he really means that they must be perfectly good paladins of justice and righteousness that can never fail, and they must be physically attractive and straight. 

 

That's 'characterization' for you. True story. It really is as corny, predictable, and cliche as it sounds.

[Mihura]

I think it comes down to the feeling you get from the character, for Josephine to work in my opinion she needed more quests outside of Skyhold, with some nice interaction with companions.

NPCs are cool and all but I prefer companion, NPCs still feel short when compared to the companions romance.

[stop_him]

I think it comes down to the feeling you get from the character, for Josephine to work in my opinion she needed more quests outside of Skyhold, with some nice interaction with companions.

NPCs are cool and all but I prefer companion, NPCs still feel short when compared to the companions romance.

I've only completed two romances thus far, Cullen's and Sera's... the less I say about Sera's the better, so I cannot compare completely. I'm now working on Solas.

 

However, I felt Cullen got a lot of screen time, esp with his additional addiction/Samson content bc you can take romance dialogue options in those scenes. Companion romances are also good, but party members don't comment that much on romances anyway, so NPC vs companion romances don't seem all that different. 

[Mihura]

I've only completed two romances thus far, Cullen's and Sera's... the less I say about Sera's the better, so I cannot compare completely. I'm now working on Solas.

 

However, I felt Cullen got a lot of screen time, esp with his additional addiction/Samson content bc you can take romance dialogue options in those scenes. Companion romances are also good, but party members don't comment that much on romances anyway, so NPC vs companion romances don't seem all that different. 

 

I would not compare Cullen with Josephine, mostly because he and Leliana both have main/quest side mission with Cory second in command. Josephine has a personal quest but so does Cullen, so in a way he got more content outside Skyhold in some PTs. But than again if you feel that Cullen sucks you have a lot of choices, IB, Blackwall, Solas.

I saw or did most of the romances (not blackwall) and Josephine just felt less when compared to Sera. Basically if your PC is a lesbian in the last two games of bioware you either romance two NPCs or two companions. The same cannot be said to all the others, and Sera in my opinion is the worst romance I ever experience in their games, with Dorian being my favorite, alongside Isabela.