439 réponses à ce sujet

[GhostWare]

Let's say that the Mass Effect 3 ending we knew didn't exist, that there was no "star child", or no red, green, and blue endings, or scrapped dark matter endings, and you're approached to write the ending to the Mass Effect trilogy. How would you do it?

[Vazgen]

Better to ask "How would you write Mass Effect 3?". Ending an already established story in different ways can be problematic.

Personally, I'd remove a few scenes (Normandy evacuation comes to mind), make Shepard get to the beam without getting hit, have an actual mission on the Citadel fighting Reaper forces, have TIM confrontation take place in Council chambers, meet the Catalyst along with squadmates, have the option for one of them to make the necessary sacrifice, remove Synthesis and Refuse endings entirely (or perhaps change Synthesis ending the way so it doesn't work instantaneously).

[Kurt M.]

I wouldn't have created the "Crucible" idea to begin with. Way too much "deus ex machina" for my tastes.

 

I sincerely believed that what was happening with Haestrom's sun would be the key for eliminating the Reapers, and thus we'd have seen events developed that way. Sadly, it ended up being nothing but a plot hole.

[ImaginaryMatter]

The Crucible would end up being a time machine. Shepard enters the time machine and goes back to Eden Prime at the beginning of Mass Effect 1, only in a different time line. This new time line has little inconsistencies and frustrating moments removed. Also, TIM no longer exists.

[Linkenski]

Crucible or something similar is the only thing that made sense to me after what ME2 did to the overall plot of the trilogy (it didn't properly move it along), but I'd be sure to focus much more on specific details about the Crucible and I'd rewrite Priority Mars and the introduction of the Crucible, so instead, as part of ME3's plot of "Gather a galactic alliance" there would be a side plot that was about chasing this "prothean myth" that Liara has found. She would still obtain the blueprints for the Crucible, but the further you went along with the plot the more pieces and blueprint details you would find. So to start with there'd be the idea that "This is a huge-ass weapon." and the logic would be "this can give us a HUGE advantage in the war if we can build and use it" instead of "derp, we found a way that will maybe kill all reapers. who knows?". Very placeholder ish idea but I think the overall structure is the key thing here. It would work better than what they did IMO.

 

As for the ending, I'd pretty much keep it intact but I'd make sure you said goodbye to the two squaddies you bring along before the beam run, probably in a big boss fight or something like the Thanix Missile Horde Mode, and then they'd escape by going aboard Cortez' shuttle or another nearby evacuation shuttle that would take them to A) the Normandy or another unsafe vessel that would be shot down depending on your EMS. Then after that was taken care of, I'd pretty much keep the ending intact, maybe tell the level designer at Bioware to make the Citadel's Insides look more like a Reaper Processing chamber than just "Creepy looking hallway with random reaper-tubes and keepers who do god-knows-what" and then after TIM's final struggle (boss fight or not, IDC) you'd meet HARBINGER - NOT The Starchild - Harbinger would go into detail about the Reaper history just like the Catalyst does, explain his solutions and all that, but then you should be able to somehow come to terms with him differently. He'd make a plot-flag check e.g. "We have followed your path, Shepard. You have forged a unity between flesh and machine. We have seen how you let the Geth and the Quarian put their grievances away" and then he'd question whether this was a peace that would last forever, and via Reputation you should be able to convince the Reapers that you have solved their problem by conventional means. Whatever Harbinger decides to do afterwards is something I can't figure out because it would be so silly if he was just like "Lol okay, reaper boys, let's go home to dark space then".

 

Maybe they would sign a treaty or make an agreement that the Reapers cease their slaughter of the galaxy temporarily and returns after a set amount of time to see if organic and synthetic relations have improved. I don't know. I can definitely see how Bioware would've been scratching their heads over this whole thing now that I start trying to come up with my own idea, but then again. I'm not a writer and I don't strive to be one. I just wanted ME3 to be so good, and the potential was kinda there.

[SporkFu]

The epitome of cheesy space battles and ground battles, with lots of heroics and occasional sacrifices, and especially explosion-y goodness, culminating in the battle-scarred Normandy at the head of what's left of the largest fleet ever assembled in the history of the galaxy chasing Harbinger all the way back to dark space, finally blowing him to hell just before he makes his escape. His final words a threat to return, and shep saying, "not on my watch!" ... Cue fireworks and celebrations.

[justafan]

I mostly agree with Vazgen.  Your squad mates should have been with you until the very end, they are what make the Mass effect series unique and special.  Also, a final fight to the Citadel controls in the council chambers would have been a nice callback to ME1 while at the same time making a lot of sense.  I don't really see how a boss fight would work, but I think it would have been both fun and more satisfying.  Maybe one final Harby direct control minion.

 

As for Starbrat.  He is unfortunately necessary at this point to explain things, though I wouldn't have him be of reaper origin, but rather a VI created by the crucible to convey data gained by connecting to the catalyst (and thus he wouldn't take the form of the kid).  Perhaps instead of controlling the reapers, the catalyst is merely the nexus of their intelligence sharing, a type of QEC consensus where the individual reapers share data and decide what course of action they will take.  The crucible in this scenario would hijack the consensus, allowing the player to control the reaper decision making process.  Shep can either upload himself into the crucible in order to permanently control the reapers, or have the crucible tell everything with reaper tech to destroy itself.  Destroy would deactivate the relays, Control would not.  There would be no synthesis or refuse.  After that, lots of slides showing the fate of different species (more war assets=more optimistic) and call it a game.

[n7stormreaver]

Kill enemies. Go home. I don't want your transhumanistic bullshit in a game series that never was serious or thought through in the first hand.

 

Crucible should've been something that was created as an idea by countless previous civilizations, but only we could find out the final piece by studying Sovereign remains and it's effect would be weakening Reapers (like cutting their network so they were disoriented or something about shields) and then it conventional fight against just barely supreme enemy with casualties, destruction and overall outcome based on EMS. 

 

Though in this scenario i have no ideas for groundside final mission, but it could be as asspulled as beam mission in ME3. 

[ImaginaryMatter]

I mostly agree with Vazgen.  Your squad mates should have been with you until the very end, they are what make the Mass effect series unique and special.  Also, a final fight to the Citadel controls in the council chambers would have been a nice callback to ME1 while at the same time making a lot of sense.  I don't really see how a boss fight would work, but I think it would have been both fun and more satisfying.  Maybe one final Harby direct control minion.

 

As for Starbrat.  He is unfortunately necessary at this point to explain things, though I wouldn't have him be of reaper origin, but rather a VI created by the crucible to convey data gained by connecting to the catalyst (and thus he wouldn't take the form of the kid).  Perhaps instead of controlling the reapers, the catalyst is merely the nexus of their intelligence sharing, a type of QEC consensus where the individual reapers share data and decide what course of action they will take.  The crucible in this scenario would hijack the consensus, allowing the player to control the reaper decision making process.  Shep can either upload himself into the crucible in order to permanently control the reapers, or have the crucible tell everything with reaper tech to destroy itself.  Destroy would deactivate the relays, Control would not.  There would be no synthesis or refuse.  After that, lots of slides showing the fate of different species (more war assets=more optimistic) and call it a game.

If the Catalyst had to be kept I would probably switch synthetic/organic to a more general purpose that the Reapers exist to stop organics before they advance to the point that the weapons they develop begin to threaten entire systems and species. The Reapers could be a remnant of some older species that survived the destruction of their original galaxy in some large scale war. The Crucible would be a weapon from this conflict that the Reapers thought they had destroyed in order to avoid such destruction, the previous cycles found it and through *plot* modified to exclusively target the Reapers with no Synthetic collateral.

 

The ending sequence itself would mechanically similar to the ending of the first Deus Ex game, where instead of clicking a button Shepard has to align with a representative of whatever ending to activate the Crucible. With Destroy Shepard sides with Anderson, Hackett radios directions about blowing up reactors or aligning some mechanism to activate that function and they head off to do so. With Control Shepard uses TIM's method and introduces whatever reverse husk signal that he found on Sanctuary into the computer main frame to take control of the Reapers. Synthesis would be replaced with... something else, that would involve aligning with the Catalyst to activate it. All the endings would have various levels of EMS affecting them. There are different epilogues show casing the galaxy moving on.

[ZipZap2000]

Synthesis.

[SilJeff]

I wouldn't have created the "Crucible" idea to begin with. Way too much "deus ex machina" for my tastes.

 

I sincerely believed that what was happening with Haestrom's sun would be the key for eliminating the Reapers, and thus we'd have seen events developed that way. Sadly, it ended up being nothing but a plot hole.

 

to remove the crucible would mean having to rewrite the reapers in all three games so they aren't impossible to defeat conventionally and replace me2's plot entirely so things can actually happen in that game and thus not have ME3 start with the galaxy completely unprepared for an impossible to beat enemy

[ImaginaryMatter]

to remove the crucible would mean having to rewrite the reapers in all three games so they aren't impossible to defeat conventionally and replace me2's plot entirely so things can actually happen in that game and thus not have ME3 start with the galaxy completely unprepared for an impossible to beat enemy

 

I don't think that's an issue, ME3 to a certain point already did that. In this game Reapers are held up by things like guerrilla tactics and 15 minute plans. They already made the Reapers have different classes of shields and weapons, so it wouldn't be a stretch to make Sovereign another special class of Reaper that had extra hit points. These are pretty contrived elements but they already exist in ME3, so fudging them a little more for a conventional victory doesn't cause any more harm than what has already been done.

[n7stormreaver]

to remove the crucible would mean having to rewrite the reapers in all three games so they aren't impossible to defeat conventionally and replace me2's plot entirely so things can actually happen in that game and thus not have ME3 start with the galaxy completely unprepared for an impossible to beat enemy

 

Or, like Gladiatorium said, it could be something about Haestrom' sun. That was exactly up to Bioware - come up with interesting solution, not make a plot device out of nowhere. 

[Ranadiel Marius]

Starting from scratch for ME3's ending....well I would basically be forcing incredibly heavy rewrites of the entire plot from the get go as I would have the final battle be the Reaper's attempt to take the Citadel as if they take it then the war should be over as that should shut down the allied forces access to Mass Relays.

 

Actually that is probably how I would handle restructuring the game. When the Reapers initially invade, the Council figures out how to use the Citadel to control the relays allowing them to stop the invasion in its tracks. However that left all of the allied fleets completely stranded and the Reapers with time are able to force the mass relays back online (and probably have it so that they were entering from multiple paths so they were stranded in just about every major system).

 

So now that I've got my rationale for why the Reapers don't instantly win, why Shepard has to collect the various fleets, and the location, the question becomes how does Shepard win? First thing that I can really come up with is that something has to be controlling the Reapers as otherwise I imagine the collective will of the reaped species would be rather hostile towards the other Reapers. So during the war over the Citadel, have the Allied Forces disable Harbinger and Shepard boards him. After a final boss fight, Shepard finds w/e it is that allows Harbinger to control the other Reapers and has several options:

a. Completely disable the equipment freeing the Reapers (Ultimate Hopeful Paragon)

b. Take control of the equipment and therefore the Reapers (Renegade)

c. Command the Reapers to destroy each other (practical option)

 

I dunno, probably needs a lot of polish.

[Iakus]

I wouldn't have created the "Crucible" idea to begin with. Way too much "deus ex machina" for my tastes.

 

I sincerely believed that what was happening with Haestrom's sun would be the key for eliminating the Reapers, and thus we'd have seen events developed that way. Sadly, it ended up being nothing but a plot hole.

Unfortunately, thanks to ME2 being mainly spinning wheels, a deus ex machina was needed for ME3, but at least it could have been a better one.

 

I would have scrapped RGB, and just have the Crucible bring down the kinetic barriers of the Reapers, leaving them weakened, but still dangerous.  The condition of the galaxy would be dependent on how big a military force is there to take advantage of the Reapers' weakened state.

 

Edit:  Also Shepard could clearly survive, none of this "faceless torso takes a breath" garbage.

[CronoDragoon]

Crucible docks, You Did Good Son, Crucible fires, dead Reapers, cut to epilogue.

[Valmar]

Unfortunately, thanks to ME2 being mainly spinning wheels, a deus ex machina was needed for ME3, but at least it could have been a better one.

 

I would have scrapped RGB, and just have the Crucible bring down the kinetic barriers of the Reapers, leaving them weakened, but still dangerous.  The condition of the galaxy would be dependent on how big a military force is there to take advantage of the Reapers' weakened state.

 

Edit:  Also Shepard could clearly survive, none of this "faceless torso takes a breath" garbage.

 

Actually I feel the same way. It wouldn't even be completely unprecedented. When Shepard killed Saren while he was being controlled by Sovereign for some reason it disabled the reaper. Maybe the crucible could work on a similar level - sending out a pulse that blankets all of charted space through the relays that disables the reaper's shields. After the blast first fires it leaves them momentarily crippled as well, giving the Alliance time to wipe out the opposition around the crucible. It could also fry all the reaper ground troops and interfere with the indoctrination signal. All this without actually destroying the reaper's themselves.

 

Eventually the reapers have to retreat past the range of the relays to avoid destruction. The next title could involve us finding all the dormant relays in your system and activating them. This ensures the crucible signal reaches farther into the galaxy. There could be a lot of relays we never actually used. The council banned activating them after the rachni. What we see as the galaxy map could only be a small fraction of what is actually connected.

 

So we'd find the relays, activate them, explore the new space and activate any more relays we find. Keep going until we've blanketed all of the relay-connected systems with the crucible signal so the reapers have no where else to run. Perhaps you have to struggle with the politicians to get them to dedicate more resources to hunting down the reapers. They could be all "the reapers are gone, no longer a threat, we need to focus on rebuilding first" then have the other side argue that the reapers could find a way passed the crucible signal and come back, that they need to be wiped out now while they're still vulnerable.

 

Maybe keep control as an option. However if its chosen the husks and indoctrinated thralls are now influenced by the will of whoever is linked to the crucible. It can't actually control the reapers, since they are each a nation and not machines.

[KaiserShep]

The enemy dies, and Shepard dances.

 

[angol fear]

Better to ask "How would you write Mass Effect 3?". Ending an already established story in different ways can be problematic.

 

"How would you write the trilogy from Mass Effect 1" would be the real starting point. To change the ending you have to change almost everything in the trilogy.

[n7stormreaver]

"How would you write the trilogy from Mass Effect 1" would be the real starting point. To change the ending you have to change almost everything in the trilogy.

Considering how disconnected is the ending for the rest of trilogy - no, not really. 

[Valmar]

"How would you write the trilogy from Mass Effect 1" would be the real starting point. To change the ending you have to change almost everything in the trilogy.

 

If this was true the IT wouldn't make a lot more sense in the narrative of the story than the ending we have. To repeat what Stormreaver said, the ending is so disconnected from the trilogy that making a new one wouldn't require changing anything. Nothing you come up with, even if you're a novice writer with no imagination, can be as bad as what we have as far as having an ending that fits with the narrative and universe.

 

Actually its kinda the reverse. You wouldn't need to rewrite anything about the trilogy to make a better ending. At the same time, however, to make the current ending make any kind of sense in the narrative and lore you'd have to go back and rewrite the trilogy. The ending is disconnected with the trilogy and established lore with so many plotholes and retcons that it might as well be written by Dietz. There are numerous things in the trilogy that flat out contradict a lot about the ending. Many of which aren't even things you have to think on deeply to see the errors, a lot of them are glaringly obvious to anyone who's played the game and followed the story even a little bit. Again, kinda like Dietz.

[Cobwebmaster]

Firstly I'm not sure where the "Star Child" label came from unless it was Arthur C Clarke, but that aside, the one controlling the reapers is perfectly capable of projecting any image it wants at Shepard,. The image we see is remarkably similar to the child that Shepard  tried to rescue at the start of the game when Vancouver was attacked, and I question whether despite protestations to the contrary the one controlling the reapers did in fact have some subliminal influence over Shepherd's decision making process at the final choice

Anyway, the theme I gel with is one where the machines finally concede after countless harvests that they are not the "solution" any more. I don't think the choices are simple at the end, but it is missing the one where the hero not having destroyed another huge chunk of the galaxy's population (or at least the human bit of it that's left) gets to fly off into the sunset into retirement and live happily ever after with either himself or his romanced partner

In BG2 Throne of Bhaal expansion, the hero gets put in a similar quandary but there is one where he can choose to remain "mortal" and retire quietly to a more or less normal life with or without his romantic interest. The problem is how to neutralise the reapers without destroying or marooning the rest of the galaxy in the process. They are obviously a "power" that needs to be utilised certainly in the short term until the organics fully understand reaper tech and functionality, but maybe one moral issue is how will organics evolve without trying to destroy each other or mechs in the future. The united galaxy is against a common threat. Once that threat is removed where is the incentive for them to remain that way and not pursue their own agenda's? Does this imply that some greater element of cosmopolitan control  above A Council  is needed?

Why is Shepard's energy and persona so vital to option 3? Why is it not possible to simply disable the reapers, and go back to being a'hole organics. Disablement works and gives you time to you destroy the "star child's" keepers on the citadel and any other alien-ness  that facilitates harvesting. I guess that solution may be dependent on the results of the action on Rannoch. A solution there which retains the developing "life force" of the Geth allows for their evolution alongside and in partnership with the previously obsessive Quarians. Eureka!! A galaxy that continues to evolve and subject to Darwinism theory may or may not become syntho- organic but at least they wouldn't have to go back to swinging through the trees to gather food and  keep safe from predators until someone re-invents the galactic wheel

[n7stormreaver]

Firstly I'm not sure where the "Star Child" label came from unless it was Arthur C Clarke, but that aside, the one controlling the reapers is perfectly capable of projecting any image it wants at Shepard,. The image we see is remarkably similar to the child that Shepard  tried to rescue at the start of the game when Vancouver was attacked, and I question whether despite protestations to the contrary the one controlling the reapers did in fact have some subliminal influence over Shepherd's decision making process at the final choice

 

Because it was the most obvious name for him and it had much more meaning and easier to interpret than "Catalyst"

 

Also, whole child line in ME3 is so stupid. Shepard is not supposed to be that flimsy to obsess over one child. Especially if she's Ruthless Earth-born Renegade ffs. 

[KaiserShep]

"How would you write the trilogy from Mass Effect 1" would be the real starting point. To change the ending you have to change almost everything in the trilogy.

 

This makes no sense. Nothing in ME1 leads into the Catalyst reveal, and ME2 seemed to be going in a totally different direction, which was then abandoned when ME3 rolled around. At the most, you'd have to rewrite some dialogue, but the other games can stay perfectly intact and it would make no difference.