143 réponses à ce sujet

[Raikas]

Actually many good leaders were introverts, or socially awkward, or plainly weird
Both Warden and Inquisitor become heroes not because they're amazing at giving orders but because they happened to be in a right place at a right time.
Not to mention that even being socialy outgoing does not mean being a pro at romance. What kind of weird logic is that a good leader just can't be shy around their crush? That just makes no sense

 

Introversion is one thing, but shyness/social anxiety is a whole different level - there are certainly some pure military or pure political figures who fit that profile, but the military/social leader that these player characters are supposed to be are less likely to be that way.

 

I think a lot of the less-social responses in DAO could be taken as signs of introversion, and some of snarky Hawke's comments are clearly awkward, but I don't think shyness works for either (and probably won't for the Inquisitor either). 

 

I suppose from the romance angle it might work, although I feel like this game may well be encouraging us to play an older character (maybe not as strongly as DAO encouraged a young one, and maybe it won't be true at all), and I find the idea of a 40-year-old Inquisitor stammering about his/her "crush" to be more than a little silly.  That said, if people want the option I suppose there's no real reason not to offer it.

[Br3admax]

He wasn't actually making a sexual innuendo there, though, just something that accidentally sounded like one.

Uh, yes he was. That was the point of the entire conversation.

[LOLandStuff]

Maybe his dialogue should've gone something like this to be more obvious.

 

Alistair: Are you a virgin?

PC: I am a virgin.

Alistair: Oh wow, I too am a virgin.

Alistair/PC: Let's get unvirginized!

 

SWOOSH!

[Xilizhra]

I suppose from the romance angle it might work, although I feel like this game may well be encouraging us to play an older character (maybe not as strongly as DAO encouraged a young one, and maybe it won't be true at all), and I find the idea of a 40-year-old Inquisitor stammering about his/her "crush" to be more than a little silly.  That said, if people want the option I suppose there's no real reason not to offer it.

Isn't that exactly what happened with Aveline in DA2?

[ArkadiaFire]

In response to the original topic, I would prefer the option to have more subtly in the romances. My following opinions may be spoilery to some, just warning you

 

As for the PC and shyness with respect to romance, I don't see why not. While you eventually end up a the leader of this organization, it seems that even having the advisors present and advisor missions on the wartable illustrates how in the story you aren't expected to bear the weight of the world on your shoulders alone. From the PC backgrounds, your character (while age may range from 20-40) appears to be fairly green- a prince/ss, nondescript mage, hunter, smuggler, sellsword. I don't think you go from being zero to hero overnight like you did with DA:O. The NPCs seem to pick up on this, as evidenced by the conversation with Cass/advisors in the PC control twitchstream where they ask you how you feel about being the Inquisition mascot, and you are given the option of being reluctant. Now that's not to say that your teammates would appreciate an inquisitor who is a complete wuss and cries nonstop about everything. That may be an option, but I doubt that will make your crew respect you on a personal level.

 

As for your NPCs taking the initiative and hitting on your character? Well I think that would depend on that particular NPC. I could totally imagine Sera getting drunk and rowdy and tossing a few innuendos your way. As for Josie, I imagine she'd be classier and reserved. Cass however, doesn't strike me as a character who would chase you down to get your pants off. So as for the romances, I guess it depends on your type of play style and what kind of story the writers wanted to tell with that particular romance.

 

I'm hopeful that the romances in DAI will have their own unique storylines and actually add something to the main story. I found DA2s romances to be unfulfilling. Perhaps the aggressive approach to flirting and romance (and don't get me started on the obligatory act 2 sex in order to even progress the romance into act 3) would suit an aggressive Hawke, but for my diplomatic playthrough it just didn't work for me. And the romances felt to similar. "Sorry you killed that mage girl Anders, here some sex to cheer you up" and "whats that Merrill? Your clan doesn't appreciate you? There there, sex will make it all better". Even though I stumbled across Sebastian's 'romance', the 'after-three-flirts-chaste-marriage-proposal' felt forced and fake. And even in the endgame narration your whole romance boiled down to one line by Varric. Nope, sorry Bioware, you missed the mark on that one. However, I feel that the romances in DA:O were well done. Even the polar opposite romances (growing with Alistair from friend to lover and the transition from physical attraction to affection with Zevran) felt fluid and seemless within the confines of the story, and gave a more rewarding player experience.

 

I have hope for Bioware! Learn from your mistakes and give us juicy ( and different) romance stories!!!!!!

^{...not that romance is all the play the games for...(insert nervous laugh here)}

[Harlot]

While I'm a longtime BioWare fan I always thought that the protagonists in their games have a bit flat personalities - aside from those with some pre-designed features like Hawke or Shepard - so not being able to RP a "shy" or inexperienced character does suck a bit, but is not the only personality trait I miss being able to RP in BW games.

I do however have to say that the mentor-student relationships in BioWare games were always done nicely - in my opinion of course. I liked the relationship Warden had with Wynne, I loved Kreia's lesson's for the Exile and Revan's debate's with Jolee. I also liked "mentoring" Garrus with Shepard and seeing him grow into an amazing character over the course of the trilogy.

I'm hoping that Solas and Blackwall will serve this purpose in Inquisition for my character and that I don't have to RP the ever-confident, firm and strong character at all times . I know that leadership is a major theme for the game and I hope that we can RP its burden affecting our character and his/her inexperience reflecting on the need to consult with our advisors and companions often.

[Chari]

Introversion is one thing, but shyness/social anxiety is a whole different level - there are certainly some pure military or pure political figures who fit that profile, but the military/social leader that these player characters are supposed to be are less likely to be that way.

 

I think a lot of the less-social responses in DAO could be taken as signs of introversion, and some of snarky Hawke's comments are clearly awkward, but I don't think shyness works for either (and probably won't for the Inquisitor either). 

 

I suppose from the romance angle it might work, although I feel like this game may well be encouraging us to play an older character (maybe not as strongly as DAO encouraged a young one, and maybe it won't be true at all), and I find the idea of a 40-year-old Inquisitor stammering about his/her "crush" to be more than a little silly.  That said, if people want the option I suppose there's no real reason not to offer it.

I quite disagree

Being shy, being socially awkward does not mean one can't be a good leader. Heck, it's not a military example, but I recall times when I was a little kid, and acted incredibly shy (I still do) in public, towards strangers, classmates. But once I worked on any kind of a project with friends, family members or any people I was comfortable with I'd become the bossiest little girl one can imagine. To the point that my own older cousins were terrified of me and wouldn't dare to go against my, eh, "orders". Which was one of reasons our art projects tended to... fail, in the end, but whatever

Or Eska, from LoK, as described by one of the creators, if I'm not mistaken, the whole new meaning of "socially awkward". Still, bossy and quite capable of giving orders... and making other characters horrified

It's all about the conext, type of personality and followers

Forcing the player to fill the "Optimistic-Outgoing-Extroverted-Socialy-Pro-Super-Cazanova" type of a character is just... it's everything RPing shouldn't be in the first place. I understand borders, I understand some restrictions. This one is not acceptable

[Wynne]

I have never met a shy military leader who can unite an entire army under their command.

You haven't met many, then. 

 

You wouldn't believe the amount of insecure, love-shy military men I've met. Being able to kill enemies doesn't mean you're not terrified to talk to people you find attractive. Yes, that's ridiculous. Does it change the fact that it happens all the time? Not one bit.

 

~

 

And on that note, there is NOTHING IN THE WORLD contrary to the concept of "Lead them or fall" in being a person who can command well in a professional context, but is afraid to get close emotionally or be evaluated romantically/sexually! It's easy to think you're unattractive and your body parts are undesirable when naked, and/or to think you can't ever show who you really are, but to still take pride in getting your job done well and in your ability to form strong platonic bonds.

 

It's called being a person. 

 

And it's actually highly rewarding to be involved in the roleplay of a protagonist who closely resembles a real person, with all the implied complexities and contradictions.

 

NPCs are not the only characters--the PC is a character, and really needs to be! The more options Bioware can include which allow us to define that character's development, rather than having only NPCs get character development, the more rewarding the story will be for the player because those little moments mean so much. Feeling like you get how the relationship of protagonist/NPC works, why it functions, why they make a good couple, is vital to loving the story in full!

 

And no, being shy does not always mean you're stammering about having a crush like a dorky teenager. People, adults, express shyness in many different ways--or don't express it, which makes it mean that much more when someone else picks up on it.

 

Having been the one person to pick up on a very hard-edged, strong individual's secret vulnerabilities and gentler sides, let me tell you, to be the only one who noticed he could ever be that way was special. Most only heard the sarcasm and saw the tough lean-and-mean exterior, honed from years of being the guy other guys thought would make an easy target. He learned to stare others down; to project aggression and confidence to avoid having to constantly prove to larger males with his fists, "yes, I CAN in fact make short work of you and your buddies in a fight." And yet because deep down, he thought himself unattractive and barely dared to look women in the eye (which most would read as him 'being a cold jerk' because he'd learned to conceal his shyness so that no one could use it to mock him), he could neither control his face nor stop blushing when I told him he was handsome.

 

Yet this in no way showed when he interacted with anyone else. His family and all those around him completely misunderstood his true nature. I have no doubt he could lead a battalion because he's great in a crisis. But that's different from being around someone he's attracted to. "Social interactions" are not all equal. Platonic social interactions and romantic social interactions are very, very different. 

 

On a similar note, there's a reason why so many businessmen would go to a dominatrix. It's because life isn't as simple as "LEAD LEAD LEAD OMG LEAD NEVER ANY BREAK." Real people need balance. Real people are not 100% dominant in every area of their life, and the ones who seem the strongest in public are often quite frail in private. That's what it's like to be in love with a powerful leader--you see their insecurities, vulnerabilities, and humanities. You see behind the mask, you see the doubt, because with the right person is the only place such a strong person can let those intimacies out to play. And they *must* let them out in that context, because otherwise it's a shallow imitation of a real relationship. 

 

And that complexity, those secret vulnerabilities, are what keeps the leader a real character instead of a stupid, flat, boring, awfully-written stick figure Mary Sue/Gary Stu that I have to imagine the NPC-writers feeling contempt for. A person who can never let down their walls, never ever, is headed for a mental breakdown, not victory and glory. The mental breakdown is pure realism. In real life, we have PTSD vets, not invulnerable badasses no one can relate to.

 

To be called on that very fact by an NPC fighting to get close to my emotionally shuttered protagonist would give me all kinds of character developmentgasms and storygasms and joygasms. So I'm really hoping the writers of DAI agree with my philosophy, and give us the chance to have those secret hidden sides. Yes, even inexperience and shyness when it comes to love, despite being quite capable in war.

[Imported_beer]

 I wish they'd get rid of these super obvious "HEREISTHEHEARTCLICKTOFLIRTYOUSHEEPISNTISALREADYOBVIOUS???!!!" heart symbols. They kinda kill the suspence and surprise -

Okay, please. I need those hearts precisely because I don't need the surprise!

 

I have gotten into some strange situations without the hearts.

 

Once an Asari gave me a trinket after a very convoluted quest. I said "That's it" and bam! SEXSCENE!

 

Once I told a sad redhead who collapsed in battle that it was not her fault we got our arses kicked. BAM! SEXSCENE.

 

I told one of my comrades that Nope. I don't sleep with colleagues and in part 2, he was going on and on about "that night"...which creeped me out because all MY pc's nights are spent  alone studying military strategy.

 

Not to mention Anomen, and that bounty hunter companion girl in SWTOR and the like. 

 

You guys and gals in this thread are most likely suave individuals with high emotional intelligence that are able to tell what is a flirt, suggestive remark, interested response or the like. You may merely want to play a clueless character. But some of us are actually clueless characters playing clueless characters and need all the help we can get to prevent us from getting into situations they can't handle. I begged, pleaded and cried for clear context clues in DA2 and was so thrilled when I knew there would be some. Without the hearts, I am in so much trouble! The hearts kept me sane in DA:2 because they told me "don't click that unless you want someone landing up in your quarters talking about heavy risks"

 

Think of people like me!

[In Exile]

Once I told a sad redhead who collapsed in battle that it was not her fault we got our arses kicked. BAM! SEXSCENE.

 

Wait, which game was this one?

[HK-90210]

I think a lot of this comes down to this idea that we, as fans, own the characters we play. This is a false assumption. Within the confines of a game made by the devs, we have to accept the limitations that we are given. No, the Warden doesn't get the options to just go gallivanting off to wherever they want and leave Ferelden to its fate. No, the PC don't get to kill everyone and everything that crosses their path. No, Hawke doesn't get to realize that, 'Hey, maybe I should divert all my attention to that murdering psycho who's stalking Kirkwall before he kills someone. My mother, for instance'. You play the role you're given, not the one you wish for.

 

That being said, within that role(Great, now I sound like a Qunari), you are allowed to take whatever choices you feel fit best for your character. You want to play a shy character? Make him/her choose the simple, less-wordy responses, make them less chatty. Have them not venture out to talk to people very much. Make them sort of a recluse while they're in Skyhold, make a rule never to talk to the ambient NPCs. You have a lot of options within the game. But no, playing a 'shy' person is not possible, at least not to the degree that some here are choosing to define.

 

Especially when a key part of playing a protagonist in ANY RPG is the propensity to talk to random people you meet and accept quests. Being an adventurer does not lend itself to the kind of person who has any trouble conversing with strangers.

[Imported_beer]

Wait, which game was this one?

Witcher!

[In Exile]

Witcher!

Right! OK. I thought you meant a Bioware game. 

[FromMyths]

@Wynne

That was a well written and valid point to bring up in this topic. I myself have met people who were great at leading large groups, but a lot more uncertain at interacting one-on-one with just one person, so I can vouch for the notion of a strong leader who shows misgivings when out of their element. Weakness doesn't make a character less strong; in fact, a show of weakness is a great display of how human a character is and how powerful they can be compared to a character who shows strength 24/7.

It's probably the main reason I'm more attached to my Warden than I am of Hawke, despite the fact that I admired how Hawke managed to stay strong in their situation. I was able to play my Warden Aeducan as a man who could rise to the occasion when needed, but wasn't above being uncertain about his role as leader or constantly questioning whether what he would do was the right choice for more than just the Grey Wardens. All that he had solid convictions in were his faith in his group and his pride of upholding his family's name in honor (especially after finding something special in Denerium). Hawke was shown in similar situations, but it didn't feel as poignant as when I actually chose the response for such situations myself. Mind, this is all subjective on my part.

I'm honestly hoping the emotion-responses will help shape an aspect of some form of shyness or uncertainty for our Inquisitors, though how effective it will be partially depends on the voice-actors. But I certainly don't intend to play my Qunari Inquisitor as someone who knows how to handle every situation.

[Wissenschaft 2.0]

I wish, after having sexy time, our inquisitor could command the Skyhold Sensechal to announce to all of Skyhold that "I have made it with a woman, Inform the men."

If we could I would name my Inquisitor Zapp, in honor of the legend himself.

[Wynne]

@ FromMyths 

Thank you for your reply! We seem to be on the same page. I know it's subjective, but having the room to pick qualities and stick to the principles you have in your head in relation to your character is awesome. I can only imagine how rewarding DAI will be if it finds a way to truly marry all the strengths of the previous two games and improve upon them with all that the devs have learned. 

 

@Futurama Fans

Zapp Trevelyan so needs to be a thing.  

[LostInReverie19]

You haven't met many, then. 

 

......................

 

To be called on that very fact by an NPC fighting to get close to my emotionally shuttered protagonist would give me all kinds of character developmentgasms and storygasms and joygasms. So I'm really hoping the writers of DAI agree with my philosophy, and give us the chance to have those secret hidden sides. Yes, even inexperience and shyness when it comes to love, despite being quite capable in war.

 

I ran out of likes, but I love your post so much that I had to tell you so....Like! Seriously, you said everything I wanted to say in probably a much clearer way than I could have put it.

[Chari]

You haven't met many, then. 

 

You wouldn't believe the amount of insecure, love-shy military men I've met. Being able to kill enemies doesn't mean you're not terrified to talk to people you find attractive. Yes, that's ridiculous. Does it change the fact that it happens all the time? Not one bit.

 

...

 

To be called on that very fact by an NPC fighting to get close to my emotionally shuttered protagonist would give me all kinds of character developmentgasms and storygasms and joygasms. So I'm really hoping the writers of DAI agree with my philosophy, and give us the chance to have those secret hidden sides. Yes, even inexperience and shyness when it comes to love, despite being quite capable in war.