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[Lance Botelle]

"Yet even games like Baldur's Gate (which was game-breaking and used D&D rules) still does not get a high result from me compared to some of those I have experienced in later years. (Maybe at the time it was one of the best, but times have changed.)"

Have they? If so I wonder why 10s of thousands show up to download bgr when they otherwise don't play user mods at all in this engine.

Hi E.E.

Let me clarify this point I make ....

When I first played BG, it was one of the best experiences I had. There was nothing else like it and it was ground-breaking. Last year, a friend and I played it again (with enhancements) ... and while still reasonably enjoyable, it still felt a little "bland". The second play through did not meet up with my recall of the first experience. My "rose-tinted" memory of the experience had built me up to expect more. By comparison, I also played NWN again (last year), and that experience was still (by comparison) more enjoyable.

I think some of the detraction of the later play through was due to the change in mechanics like returning to 2d from 3d. And I have always disliked the "drab" colour palette used by BG. In this respect, the mechanics themselves have an impact on my own gaming enjoyment. I suppose a good test might be to consider playing the BG mod made on the NWN engine to get a better comparison of story alone.

Since BG, there have been many other CRPG that have caught my attention over the years. With respect to a D&D rule set, all NWN games have been superior to BG. (Just my opinion of course). Ignoring the D&D rules, then things like System Shock1/2, Fallout 3, Dragon Age, Witcher games have provided a more exciting/interesting game (in my experience).

To answer your question directly though, I think many of the downloads for BGR are due to BG's own past success. It has an appeal to newcomers and old-school alike. Newcomers may have heard of ... or have been recommended to play BG because of its history. And old-school will give it a go (or download it to take a look like I have) just to see how one of the old school classics has been updated/converted by somebody else. i.e. Sometimes there is a curiosity factor about seeing how things have been changed/updated as there is anything else.

Or, as I said somewhere else ... perhaps I am just getting old.

Cheers,
Lance.

[Tchos]

And I have always disliked the "drab" colour palette used by BG.

 

Hmm, Lance, I understand you have some sort of colour blindness, which may make screenshots like this or this appear to have drab colours for you, but to me they're full of vivid, pretty colours, in spring or autumn hues.  (The second one is my own screenshot, so I can explain that it really is from BG1 despite the interface being BG2.)

 

I also understand that the whole game isn't like this, and there is indeed a preponderance of brown, but at least it's a well-saturated brown, and when I think of the game, I think of these bright forests.

[Lance Botelle]

Hmm, Lance, I understand you have some sort of colour blindness, which may make screenshots like this or this appear to have drab colours for you, but to me they're full of vivid, pretty colours, in spring or autumn hues.  (The second one is my own screenshot, so I can explain that it really is from BG1 despite the interface being BG2.)
 
I also understand that the whole game isn't like this, and there is indeed a preponderance of brown, but at least it's a well-saturated brown, and when I think of the game, I think of these bright forests.

Hi Tchos,

You have a good memory, as I am indeed colour blind.

As it happens, however, those two screenshots do appear more colourful than I recall when playing ... although, I do recall I spent a lot of time in the sewers.

I suspect my colour blindness does not help though, as my wife often points out "varying colours" on trees in autumn or spring that I just do not see as clearly as she does. To me, they tend to be a mass of one colour, albeit with "different shades" (which I am told is the different colour).

Cheers,
Lance.

[Lance Botelle]

#13 Lots of Little Updates
 
http://worldofalthea...le-updates.html
 
Things are still moving along ... gradually. I am getting closer to finishing the last part of an area that will then leave me with just a few odd jobs throughout the module ... and then ... perhaps a final alpha test by myself to ensure there are no glaring mistakes and then it goes to beta! But, let me slow down a bit and just take this one step at a time ... and speak about some of those points I have been doing lately.

TLK & 2DAs

Recently, I have been updating my custom tlk file and spells.2da to make spell descriptions read more logically. E.g. Some spells that have lesser or greater versions I have renamed them with the quality in brackets. E.g. Dispel Magic (Lesser). It's only small changes, but ones that I have always been meaning to make and so as I was rewriting the Restoration spells, I thought I would do this at the same time.

Life Essence Update

I rewrote the Restoration and Restoration (Greater) to require Life Essences per drained level if the target requires any level restoration. This fits into the general scheme I have in mind with respect to Life Essences as a whole in coming campaign developments. This system is the same that I will eventually use with respect to level draining creatures sapping "life" and gaining Life Essences for themselves. Think of vampires gaining extra life by sapping yours. While not a direct level to level swap, it does equate to a gain by the life-draining creature.

Other Stuff

I have also been adding to the item drops available when it comes to showing "placeable" objects rather than the generic loot bag. This required some extra work to fit in with some of my other systems and to make sure acquisition scripts still worked fine, including a new crafting option that uses some new runes specific to a particular area.

Anyway, just a quick screenshot to leave you with for now ....



What Is This Place?

[Eguintir Eligard]

 

 

By comparison, I also played NWN again (last year), and that experience was still (by comparison) more enjoyable.

I stopped taking you seriously after this because this was obviously a troll post.

[Dann-J]

I tried to play the original BG2 again many years after I first played (and greatly enjoyed) it, but I just couldn't get over its low-resolution graphics and 2D animations after having played more recent games. I suspect old-fashioned 640x480 CRT monitors were kinder on the old isometric games. Their fuzzier displays probably helped to soften low-resolution images (which weren't considered low-resolution at all back then). Modern high-resolution monitors merely serve to highlight the blockiness of (what are now considered) low-resolution images.

 

I remember how impressed I was with the graphics in NWN, after having played nothing but isometric RPGs up until then. The 3D models, moving camera angle, and more detailed animations vastly improved the immersion of a game. Then I experienced NWN2, and I found myself noticing the flaws in the NWN models and animations by comparison. Now that I've played games like The Witcher and Arcania, with their photo-realistic textures and detailed models, the graphical flaws in NWN2 have also become noticeable. I doubt I could ever enjoy playing NWN again, several graphical generations later.

 

I find that NWN2 is still bearable to play though. I tend to have the camera zoomed right out in Exploration Mode, which helps to hide many of the minor flaws in the models and textures. Being a party-based game, you're not constantly focused on a single protagonist (usually the back of his head) as you are in games like The Witcher of the Gothic series. Even if the back of your character's head looks weird (such as a seam appearing due to texture mipmap issues at certain distances), your attention tends to be drawn in all directions as you try not to let your party members die needless deaths, so you're not always looking at the same thing for any length of time.

[Tchos]

Well, de gustibus non disputandum est, of course, but I actually like pixel graphics as a style, which may be why the low resolution graphics don't bother me.  Also, the widescreen mod allows you to use higher resolutions which can (depending on the resolution you choose) shrink the graphics down so much (showing more of the playing field in the process) that the pixels are small enough not to be noticeable (in my opinion).

[Dann-J]

Also, the widescreen mod allows you to use higher resolutions which can (depending on the resolution you choose) shrink the graphics down so much (showing more of the playing field in the process) that the pixels are small enough not to be noticeable (in my opinion).

 

Yes - I installed the original Baldur's Gate on my current computer (mostly to raid the BIF files for modding resources), and found I was only able to play it by using the widescreen mod. Otherwise the display looked awful if it tried to reduce the resolution to 640x480 in full-screen mode. I guess modern monitors just aren't designed to work optimally at such low resolutions. Now on the rare occasion when I actually play the game, I do so in windowed mode so there's no change in resolution from the optimal setting (1440x900 on my monitor). An 800x600 window fills just over half of the screen without causing too much blockiness.

 

If I'd known of the widescreen mod all those years ago when I tried to replay BG2, it might have been bearable. Without that unofficial community-made mod I suspect the older isometric games wouldn't be played nearly as much as they still are.

[kevL]

this is what shaders can do for older games (sorry for the threadjack, Lance; hope you're interested or amused here )

raw - native res of game is 320x200


scale2x - retains an archaic feel


quillez - slight blurring takes getting used to ...


SABR - golden, but high CPU/GPU cost.

[andysks]

Graphics were never a real problem for me neither. I play the DA: Inquisition at the moment, and of course the graphics are excellent. But there are times I wish I could see a loot bag clearer, like in a game as BG. I mean, it's so good and detailed that it's overwhelming at times.

 

And for BG, I play it through once a year and it's always as enjoyable as that first time.

 

Now, if NWN is more enjoyable than BG, I guess it's a personal preference. Both good games, but for me NWN was not good for one reason only. If you have a D&D game, please allow a bigger party. I mean, come on. It's not a simple rpg... it's D&D.

 

As for your progress, I'd skip that alpha. Your testers will find bugs no mater what. And it shouldn't matter if they are 10(with your alpha), or 20 without. I am also close to the next beta version, and tempted to alpha it. But I realized that progress is much faster if you let the testers find all the bugs, while you just work on fixing them.

[Lance Botelle]

Well, de gustibus non disputandum est, of course, but I actually like pixel graphics as a style, which may be why the low resolution graphics don't bother me.  Also, the widescreen mod allows you to use higher resolutions which can (depending on the resolution you choose) shrink the graphics down so much (showing more of the playing field in the process) that the pixels are small enough not to be noticeable (in my opinion).

 
Hi Tchos,

.... de gustibus non disputandum est ... Definitely!     

I must admit that I can tolerate quite "poor" graphics before I am completely put off a game. (Just consider the last set of games I played. EDIT: I am also playing Dark Forces via Dos Box at the moment too. I will try to do a screenshot and add that at the bottom of this post.)

 

I too played BG with the wide screen mod, and I intend to play BG2 again with my friend later this year most likely. That said, perhaps I *am* still influenced more than I think with respect to graphics ... I don't know. I think Dann-J makes some good points about the way modern games make the game feel more immersive. Also, bear in mind that I come from a long history of PnP (since version 1) and so graphics at one point for me was simply "pen and paper" and in the mind.
 

I stopped taking you seriously after this because this was obviously a troll post.

 

.... Am I alone in my preference then?

EDIT: By the way, I must have "liked" it enough to play it through a second time .... I am just saying that it was not as much fun ... in my opinion.
 
Hi andysks,

 

<SNIP> Now, if NWN is more enjoyable than BG, I guess it's a personal preference. Both good games, but for me NWN was not good for one reason only. If you have a D&D game, please allow a bigger party. I mean, come on. It's not a simple rpg... it's D&D.

 
I agree that party size is important. However, I also believe being able to create your own party rather than rely on "companions" is important too. That's why I allow both systems in my campaign. That said, I also believe there is probably a "maximum" size that makes a game play better, with that figure being somewhere between 6 - 8. Personally, I quite like a size of 6 ... probably because I find that easier to think about.
 
With respect to NWN, it just felt "fresher" and had a style I preferred I guess. (Except for lack of multiple PC support.)
 

As for your progress, I'd skip that alpha. Your testers will find bugs no mater what. And it shouldn't matter if they are 10(with your alpha), or 20 without. I am also close to the next beta version, and tempted to alpha it. But I realized that progress is much faster if you let the testers find all the bugs, while you just work on fixing them.

 
Maybe I am missing the technical meaning here, but by "alpha", I am really saying just quickly playing through it to make sure I can get from beginning to end. I don't intend to test every path, as that will be up to the beta testers. However, I do want to make sure at least one path works. In theory, if one path works, most, if not all other paths should be fine.

I am very keen to get this thing launched!

By the way .... a question to all potential beta testers .... Do you have screen capture software such as "NVIDIA Shadowplay" or "FRAPS"?

I thought that seeing what people did as they played may be helpful for me to spot mistakes that they may not realise were mistakes.

Cheers,
Lance.

DARK FORCES (VIA DOS BOX):



This is a difficult mission!



Maybe this time?

[Tchos]

Personally, I think the unvarnished pixels look better than most filters, except for text, but that SABR kevL showed looks promising.

[Eguintir Eligard]

NWN was the crappiest looking game I've ever seen. It was many times WORSE than BG2 as I went directly from one to the other. And if you can't figure out that a widescreen makes a 4:3 window look horrible at any resolution that's not the fault of the authors now is it?

[Dann-J]

I've played worse-looking games that were bearable due to great stories or interesting game mechanics (Arcanum comes to mind). I've also played games with impressive graphics that were disappointing due to a lack of substance. Equal amounts of 'flash' and 'substance' would seem to be ideal.

 

The biggest sin NWN committed was in making a D&D RPG that wasn't party-based. It wasn't until one of the expansions that you could even customise your single henchman's equipment. I don't mind games where you play a lone wolf (The Witcher and the Gothic series are some of my favourites, in fact), but having a party of at least three or four fully-controllable members is a requisite for a D&D setting as far as I'm concerned.

[Eguintir Eligard]

no 1 or 2 D&D classes are built to function alone

[Lance Botelle]

I've played worse-looking games that were bearable due to great stories or interesting game mechanics (Arcanum comes to mind). I've also played games with impressive graphics that were disappointing due to a lack of substance. Equal amounts of 'flash' and 'substance' would seem to be ideal.

Hi Dann-J,

And I believe NWN2 hits more points in both of these areas than any other game I have played to date.

I'll look out for Arcanum then.

 

The biggest sin NWN committed was in making a D&D RPG that wasn't party-based. It wasn't until one of the expansions that you could even customise your single henchman's equipment. I don't mind games where you play a lone wolf (The Witcher and the Gothic series are some of my favourites, in fact), but having a party of at least three or four fully-controllable members is a requisite for a D&D setting as far as I'm concerned.

I agree (mostly). (i.e. NWN was not party based in SP mode.)

When I compare NWN with the likes of BG, I think the major improvement of being able to play 3d as opposed to 2d was such a great feeling that it outweighed quite a few factors for me. It would have been interesting to see how I felt if the stories had been swapped over between NWN and BG with each other's engine. (It's too late to compare now as I have experienced the stories already.)

Furthermore, I have used the NWN2 toolset so long now that (even though I played NWN), I still think of NWN (as a whole) as a party-based system .. even though NWN (especially in its first rendition), was not such. However, I also played NWN (when it first came out) with a group of friends, so it was "party based" in my experience the first time around.
 

no 1 or 2 D&D classes are built to function alone

I agree. I think one of the major points behind NWN (in my understanding) was that it was a game built for players to get together and play together. i.e. It was geared towards a Coop MP environment, where players made a party to work together in the game. I think Bioware made a fair game at the time when they provided companions as part of the story for those who played the game SP.

EDIT: This may also explain why my mod is taking more time than most to build, because I am writing for different environments (SP and MP). Some people focus on SP mods and some on MP persistent worlds. Mine is in the more unusual environment of trying to cater for SP and a MP environment where a group of players can play together. And to (potentially) have a DM in there as well. (It is NOT PW though.)

Cheers,
Lance.

[Tchos]

I'll look out for Arcanum then.

 

I also think Arcanum is a fantastic game, and I would highly recommend it, but you should be warned that it is not as pretty as BG, and the party control is akin to NWN1 (no direct control of companions).  However, I find it quite manageable with its optional turn-based mode.  Additionally, it's an open, seamless world, where you can walk from one end of the gigantic map to the other without using the map to fast-travel, if you prefer.  (I don't.)

[Dann-J]

I also think Arcanum is a fantastic game, and I would highly recommend it, but you should be warned that it is not as pretty as BG, and the party control is akin to NWN1 (no direct control of companions).  However, I find it quite manageable with its optional turn-based mode.  Additionally, it's an open, seamless world, where you can walk from one end of the gigantic map to the other without using the map to fast-travel, if you prefer.  (I don't.)

 

I found that I pretty much had to turn on turn-based combat later in the game, due to how fast everything happened at higher levels (movement speed and attack rates seemed to increase with level, for both the player and enemies). I suspect the game ran at a respectable speed on older machines.

 

I did once choose to take a long walk through a mountainous region, rather than use one of the faster modes of transport. I ended up encountering a lot of apes of various different species, all of whom were uncharacteristically hostile.   The level 30 Skullcrushers were nasty.

 

[Tchos]

I also took a long walk through the mountains, trying to find a path to Qintara, but apparently you have to be invited.

[Lance Botelle]

Hi All,

I looked out for Arcanum, but neither Steam nor GoG currently do it as far as I can see. (My preferred way of purchasing nowadays.) I'll keep my eyes open for it though.

You say it is "not as pretty as BG" ... Hopefully, being a new story (as I have not played it before) may help to distract me from that point. In much the same way I didn't mind DD graphics because I had not played it before.

Cheers,
Lance.

[-Semper-]

Hi All,

I looked out for Arcanum, but neither Steam nor GoG currently do it as far as I can see.

 

http://www.gog.com/g..._magick_obscura

[Tchos]

I think it was actually the first game I ever bought on GOG.  These were my first impressions and mod suggestions, if you're curious.

[Lance Botelle]

http://www.gog.com/g..._magick_obscura

Hi Semper,

Thanks for pointing me to this .... I now realise that when I did a search on GoG that I was searching my own game library and NOT their available games. Doh! I did think it rather strange that GoG did not appear to have it. I have now wishlisted that game alongside ToEE.

Cheers,
Lance. 
 

I think it was actually the first game I ever bought on GOG.  These were my first impressions and mod suggestions, if you're curious.

Hi Tchos,

Thanks for the link to your review. Interesting. It was also interesting to see you mention that Vampire game, which I also just bought from Steam to play at some point. I just recently bought the first Vampire game from GoG, and so have quite a few good old games to play now ... if and when I get the time.

Also, I finally finished Gothic yesterday and started Gothic II. Both of these games really do remind me of my own module with respect to some of the quests ... similar styles and approach by the looks of it. Must have been some synchronicity going on.

GOTHIC SPOILER ALERT: As an aside, I nearly got completely stuck at the end of Gothic, as I could not see how to get into the temple at the end, as I had already used the orc scroll to get in and the gate remained locked after I had to teleport out of there. The only clue I had was that there was another way using the statue somehow. As I was so close to the end, I wanted to just finish the game and so looked for a cheat ... and could NOT find how to do it! So, I had one last idea ... a long shot that I thought would just be hopeful thinking on my part .... I had already tried to transform into a bloodfly and reach the statue part that way ... but I could never get close enough. Then I recalled seeing a telekinesis spell and nipped back and acquired that to try. However, I found that I was unable to reach it with the spell UNLESS I had transformed into a bloodfly, fly up to a side pillar and then transform back into a human before using the telekinesis spell to grab the item I needed. I could not find this solution in any of the cheat modes I read and so was delighted when it worked. Once again, the gameplay of Gothic was pleasantly surprising ... and needless to say, I did update the walkthrough with an edited note for any future gamers who may like to know that.

Cheers,
Lance.

[Tchos]

I have in fact gone on to play VtM: Bloodlines since I wrote that review, but I don't think I ever posted a review of it.  One of many half-written reviews that mainly haven't been posted due to lack of screenshots.  But that one definitely suffers from what's been mentioned in this thread: Excellent content early on, and quite poor content near the end.

[Arkalezth]

Damn it, Tchos: