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[Lance Botelle]

Alpha Testing #5
 
Great to read about the lively discussion going on. Hopefully, while my mod does start you at first level, you can play it safe and rise quite quickly to a reasonable level before striking out. Or, if you like to take risks, you can try venturing forth and see how you get along.
 
Anyway, today's alpha testing results ....
 
Conversations
 
As one of the regular checks I am making, conversations get a closer look than most other parts. This time around I did note one conversation that dropped out too early, which was simply down to a restricted node condition. Another conversation (activated via a trigger) was failing to fire on a "repeat" fire setting. This was due to the fact that I changed the variable check from "MULTI" to "REPEATS" and had not updated the trigger variable. That now also fires as expected. Lastly, I came across another one of those conversations that triggers a conversation where the NPC no longer exists, which means the wrong conversation starts. Once again, I simply updated the variable on the trigger to note that of the NPC was no longer available to fire that particular conversation.
 
Quest Update (Via Books)
 
As some of you may know, I have quite a comprehensive Readable Books system in place now, which delivers a full blown GUI of a book with pages that turn. On one book I read, however, I was in a position where the knowledge gained updated two quests. The problem was that only one quest updated. A slight delay between quest updates and when the book was marked as "read" ensures the player received all valid quest updates upon reading the book now.
 
Coming To Faith
 
There is a point in the game when a companion may have their existing faith challenged subject to your own choice. At this point, the companions faith is altered and they must find a new faith before being able to continue with all prayers. A variable setting was not being updated after coming to a new faith, which meant the PC in question was having some feedback which was no longer relevant. Fixed!
 
Will You Sit Down!
 
The biggest bugbear today was NPCs that were supposed to be siting when encountered. Previous testing all worked fine, but that had been limited to testing while the PC was in the same area as the NPCs. Actual play testing helped me to realise that NPCs would *not* sit because the function to test their sitting was not being called until the PC was in the same area as them. I updated this to test to sit even if the player was not present in the same area as the sitting NPC, and all now works.
 
Some Other Stuff
 
There were a couple of minor other things I changed: A variable that governed "no maps" being available on an interior setting. Added the missing "container prepare" script to a few more placeables (as previously reported). I also noted I had not placed a couple of items within the module that are needed to complete a quest. I simply had not decided where to "hide" them from the player yet, and so they need placing before going to Beta. I am *still* deciding where to put them, but made a big reminder note this time.

More later, as I make progress....

A ) Approximate Alpha Testing completion of points check list: 8%

B ) Approximate potential additional coding needed (to date) of points check list: 0.2%

 

C) Party currently 3 clerics each at level 3.

 

D ) Combats to date: 1 (No deaths, rebirths, respawns or raises.)

Point B ) has been weighted by a factor of 10 to help give a better representation of estimated additional work compared to entire module. The extra coding will not be done until after being released to BETA and only then if others notice the same things as I did.

[Eguintir Eligard]

 

Arkalezth, on 14 Jul 2015 - 7:53 PM, said:

The problem is that EVERYTHING is potentially lethal at level 1. It's easy for most characters to die in one hit, and I'm not even counting criticals.

Here's ways to handle level 1 combat: weaponless kobolds, gibberlings, etc. with low enough strength they have a damage penalty, especially if you don't throw a lot of them at once at the party so the party outnumbers them.  Small giant ants or rats (less HP than normal, less damage) will work. An already wounded creature (the farmer hit the wolf with an arrow as it was escaping with a chicken). There are things you can have a first level party fight directly.

 

Exactly. The reason you folks hate level 1 is because the level 1 encounters were not properly created. There is such a thing as <1 level monsters, see my early posts on my own campaign blog in this forum. IN summary, by using minus weapons in addition to the low strength etc, and 2hp monsters, not 10hp, you can make it not only impossible to one shot even your wizards, but also reduce the hit rate to something less random. Think -4 attack, 10 ac, means even your wizard has 14 chance out of 20 to evade.

[Tchos]

Something I've been meaning to ask, Lance, is whether you could make it possible to enlarge your readable book interface to make it easier to read at high resolutions (I use 1920x1080, the standard HD).  I know you have such an option in one of your other interfaces.  For instance, the book interface in Oblivion is basically full screen, with a nice, big font.

 

EE: I would still prefer to get to level 2 without having to engage in combat with equally-matched weaklings, even if their AC were also sufficiently crippled as to make it possible to hit them at least half the time.  I find very low level combat extremely boring.

[Arkalezth]

Yeah, I don't dislike level 1 combat because it's hard or because I die a lot; that's not usually the case. I dislike it because it's slow as hell, random (pretty much every action depends more on how lucky your rolls are, rather than your characters' stats) and, well, generally boring. You barely have any abilities, spells don't last crap, etc. Seriously, who has fun killing all those rats in the basement, balanced as they may be?

 

Personally, I find combat at its most fun at level 10-ish. I have abilities to use, I don't have time to take a nap between attacks, and I haven't yet reached the point where I'm a demi-god that can wipe out a civilization with a click of his fingers.

 

That said, I don't find it a huge deal whether a low level module starts at level 3 right away, or at 1 and then gives me two levels in 5 minutes time.

[Dann-J]

Level 1 offers a chance to get all those crappy fetch-and-carry quests out of the way early on in the game, so that players don't have to bother with them at higher levels.

 

I find level 1 combat tedious mostly because of how easy it is if you use your head. Why stand there swinging and missing for several minutes, risking the loss of your precious single-digit hit points, when you can toss a couple of flasks of alchemist's fire from a safe distance?

[Tchos]

Why stand there swinging and missing for several minutes, risking the loss of your precious single-digit hit points, when you can toss a couple of flasks of alchemist's fire from a safe distance?

 

Alchemist's fire, at 20 GP each, at level 1?  That's about the entire starting gold level of most classes.

[Lance Botelle]

Something I've been meaning to ask, Lance, is whether you could make it possible to enlarge your readable book interface to make it easier to read at high resolutions (I use 1920x1080, the standard HD).  I know you have such an option in one of your other interfaces.  For instance, the book interface in Oblivion is basically full screen, with a nice, big font.
 
EE: I would still prefer to get to level 2 without having to engage in combat with equally-matched weaklings, even if their AC were also sufficiently crippled as to make it possible to hit them at least half the time.  I find very low level combat extremely boring.

Hi Tchos,

The problem with the GUIs is that there is not an easy way to scale an image beyond a certain size that will be compatible with a number of resolutions. And while I suspect more and more will have 1920 x 1080, if I made the GUI bigger, there is a (rare) chance that it would not work for some people. This is what it currently looks like:-



In theory, I could try to make them bigger, but maybe for my next module (as I currently have already set everything up for this scale).

How does that size look to you? Bearable?

Cheers,
Lance.

[Tchos]

The size of the font is easily readable, yes.  That's the most important thing.  It's unfortunate it uses so little of the screen, though.  That's what I didn't like about it when I first encountered it in the Halloween mod four years ago.

 

I do know what's involved in making them bigger for different resolutions, since I made these bigger dialogue panels, quest journals and info screens, etc.  I know it's not a trivial thing to ask.

[GCoyote]

IMHO the best use of level one is to get player acquainted with the builder's style and the general tenor of upcoming content. Am I in for a lot of political intrigue or do I have a killer dungeon waiting for me? Low levels are when the back story should be provided in easily digestible chunks.

[Dann-J]

Alchemist's fire, at 20 GP each, at level 1?  That's about the entire starting gold level of most classes.

 

Simple alchemical items tend to be dropped fairly frequently at low levels (if they haven't been deliberately placed as loot). You can also craft them at level 1 if you put four points into Craft Alchemy at character creation (and can find the ingredients).

 

In pen-and-paper games, flasks of oil and an ignition source were practically essential items in any level 1 adventurer's kit.

[Eguintir Eligard]

I wonder if between the two of you GUI window muckers, if you could make a cool unique SOZ Chat style window I might use. I favour bigness myself but my art sucks.

[Tchos]

Dann: Okay, I agree that if you can survive enough encounters to be rewarded with alchemist's fire, it might be warranted to use them against other creatures who might also drop alchemist's fire, though it would probably be more useful at that point to sell it to pay for gear upgrades.  Crafting it is hardly any better than buying it, since the crafting components for alchemist's fire cost even more than the finished product, and who knows where you can forage for fairy dust and distilled alcohol out in the wild at level 1.

 

EE: Don't know.  What don't you like about the one I made?

[Eguintir Eligard]

Its exactly the same as the stock one just bigger. Also I like a bigger reading area so that I can write a reasonable amount without the scrolling of text so probably a combo of large text window and not quite as huge text. I did this myself in Islander but I usesd a crappy parchment placeholder as the graphic that I never did end up completing. There was literally no graphic to it.

[Dann-J]

Dann: Okay, I agree that if you can survive enough encounters to be rewarded with alchemist's fire, it might be warranted to use them against other creatures who might also drop alchemist's fire, though it would probably be more useful at that point to sell it to pay for gear upgrades.  Crafting it is hardly any better than buying it, since the crafting components for alchemist's fire cost even more than the finished product, and who knows where you can forage for fairy dust and distilled alcohol out in the wild at level 1.

 

 

It's not just a matter of obtaining alchemist's fire; any encounter designed to be half-way survivable for level 1 combat will be ridiculously easy if you don't emulate typical dog-brained AI and put some actual thought into it. It's largely due to the fact that your opponent has all the same weaknesses that you do if the encounter has been balanced correctly (poor equipment, poor skills, poor abilities, few hit points, crappy saving throws, etc). Any tactic that avoids face-to-face combat usually ends such an encounter very quickly, and it doesn't take many such encounters until you're no longer a level 1 character.

 

Eventually the quality of your enemies will render your level 1 tactics useless, but until then only a fool would be trying to solve problems solely via melee combat. Unless you like gambling your life against a single throw of the die every round you're in combat.

[Eguintir Eligard]

casts sleep on the gaggle of 2 hp goblins with -2 will saves

[Tchos]

Eventually the quality of your enemies will render your level 1 tactics useless, but until then only a fool would be trying to solve problems solely via melee combat. Unless you like gambling your life against a single throw of the die every round you're in combat.

 

I agree.  I don't play fools, and I don't like being forced into foolish combat when there should be ways to avoid it entirely.  Whenever there's a way to attempt to avoid combat, I try that.

[Arkalezth]

Alchemist's fire's availability aside (I agree with Tchos in that regard), it's still 1d6 damage, so it's not exactly a nuclear bomb, and even crippled old goblins will have a good chance to shrug it off. I actually had to check the wiki, because I always seem to do 1 damage with it, which means that finishing off trolls is the only real use I've ever found for it.

[Lance Botelle]

The size of the font is easily readable, yes.  That's the most important thing.  It's unfortunate it uses so little of the screen, though.  That's what I didn't like about it when I first encountered it in the Halloween mod four years ago.
 
I do know what's involved in making them bigger for different resolutions, since I made these bigger dialogue panels, quest journals and info screens, etc.  I know it's not a trivial thing to ask.

Hi Tchos,

Actually, I decided to take another look at this, so keep your eyes peeled.

The problem I was "concerned" about is more to do with some of the images I am using. However, your images reminded me that I have greatly increased the size of the journal already, so doing the same for the books may not be such an issue ... especially nowadays where 1920 x 1080 is much the norm. Check out this link to see what I did with the journal .... NOTE: It has the bestiary tab in addition to the three normal now.

http://worldofalthea...screenshot.html

UPDATE: I tried doubling the size. It nearly fills the screen, but the results look poor due to the way the text has already been formatted, or due to the quality of the image. For the former (formatted text), I decided it best *not* to alter the size of the book at all, as this would take me a lot of time to reformat the way the text currently displays, and I simply do not have the heart to do it. (Although, there is a slim chance that I may be able to alter the point size of the font used to compensate for the difference, which would suit the requirements as well.) For the latter (images), I *might* be able to get a result somewhere between doubling and the current size that will give a "better" result. So, I am going to test a 1.5 times bigger. If the images look presentable, then I will also look at trying to alter the default font point size and see if I can make the formatted text version work. I will let you know how I get on.

UPDATE 2: OK, here are the results .... I decided to enlarge the existing book size and font by 1.5. This was the best compromise to allow for existing image pages to display without appearing too grainy .. and give room for any potential "Contents" conversation for the book to be accessible. (I had to increase image sizes by 1.5 outside of the game engine to get the best results, which also means book images are twice the size, going from around 1.5 mb to 3 mb. I suppose not a download problem nowadays.) To avoid giving away spoilers, I cannot show the "image" books, but can show you an example of the results of the changed format books:-

CRAFTING BOOK (ONE OF TWO AVAILABLE)

 
SHOWING THE GRENADES OPTIONS

 
THIS WAS TOO BIG

 

IMHO the best use of level one is to get player acquainted with the builder's style and the general tenor of upcoming content. Am I in for a lot of political intrigue or do I have a killer dungeon waiting for me? Low levels are when the back story should be provided in easily digestible chunks.

That's pretty much what you will get.
 

In pen-and-paper games, flasks of oil and an ignition source were practically essential items in any level 1 adventurer's kit.

Thrown oil flasks is available in this mod. Cost 1gp. NB: Thrown oil flasks have a chance of not igniting compared to the grenade like objects below.
 

Dann: Okay, I agree that if you can survive enough encounters to be rewarded with alchemist's fire, it might be warranted to use them against other creatures who might also drop alchemist's fire, though it would probably be more useful at that point to sell it to pay for gear upgrades. Crafting it is hardly any better than buying it, since the crafting components for alchemist's fire cost even more than the finished product, and who knows where you can forage for fairy dust and distilled alcohol out in the wild at level 1.

In my module, with all the cost modifications work out as follows ...

BASED ON SYSTEM 1 .... (PC uses ingredients found or bought.)

Acid Flask ...... Venom Gland (1gp) & Quicksilver (5gp). (Alchemy 4 using Mortar & Pestle at Bench.)
Alchemist Fire .... Fairy Dust (10gp) & Distilled Alcohol (2gp). (Alchemy 4 using Mortar & Pestle at Bench.)

BASED ON SYSTEM 2 .... (PC uses a "magik" scroll that substitutes the need of ingredients.)

Acid Flask is the cheapest option costing 10gp to buy or 7gp if you have Craft Alchemy 8.
Alchemist fire cost 20gp to buy, or 12gp if you have Craft Alchemy 8.

Others are also available at appropriate prices.
 

I agree. I don't play fools, and I don't like being forced into foolish combat when there should be ways to avoid it entirely. Whenever there's a way to attempt to avoid combat, I try that.

I could have even avoided the one combat I have had to date.


More alpha testing results later ....

Cheers all!
Lance.

[Tchos]

My eyes will certainly thank you for the bigger book.  I would have given the text bigger left margins so it looked more like a typical real book, but that would cause the text reflowing that would cause problems for your existing layouts.

[Lance Botelle]

My eyes will certainly thank you for the bigger book.  I would have given the text bigger left margins so it looked more like a typical real book, but that would cause the text reflowing that would cause problems for your existing layouts.

Hi Tchos,

Yes, I did consider the margins, but I prefer to fit as much across the page as possible under the circumstances. Otherwise, you also can get quite large gaps with bigger words, which can make it look a bit uneven ...

Anyway, today's alpha testing in a moment.

Cheers,
Lance.

[Lance Botelle]

Alpha Testing #6

I was pleased to be able to quickly redo the Readable Books GUI sizes today, alongside my testing. Thankfully, changing the font point size was very straightforward, which meant the change was relatively painless after I had also resized a few images. To complement the new book GUI, I also added book items to the "placeable items" objects that are formed when un-acquired.

Anyway, today's alpha testing results ....

Infinite XP
 
I discovered one of those situations where using a discovered password to open a door awarded XP every time you used the password. A quick integer check resolved that one. (I did consider simply leaving the check "as made", but reconsidered after I realised my code also allowed for a password to be changed.)
 
Failed Item Updates
 
In a quest I have, I use code that refers to an object by tag to find others to update. At some point in the past, I changed this object to a static/environmental object, which meant the related items were not referred to for their update. I redirected the script to use a different object (one that is useable).
 
Infinite Alignment Change
 
Similar to the infinite XP bug (above), I had a conversation option that kept altering alignment slightly. Again, another variable check sorted this issue.
 
Conversation
 
Related to the "password" puzzle above, I added a conversation line where the player can be reminded of the password in a conversation ... just in case they forgot it between sessions. (I did consider adding this to a journal entry, but did not think it worth it in this particular circumstance.)

More Placeables

I discovered a couple more placeable objects with the old script on them, and were giving too much of a reward. Couldn't have that, and so they were updated with the new script. Much stingier ... I mean better.

The Other Stuff

Redoing the books took up most of my testing time today, but I think the results are worth it, as they are certainly less of a strain on the eyes. Seven years ago (when I first started this project), everything had seemed much clearer to read.

More later, as I make progress.... Having Fun!

A ) Approximate Alpha Testing completion of points check list: 9%

B ) Approximate potential additional coding needed (to date) of points check list: 0.3%

C ) Party currently 3 clerics, a wizard and a dog (henchman). All PCs are at level 3.

D ) Combats to date: 1 (No deaths, rebirths, respawns or raises.)

Point B ) has been weighted by a factor of 10 to help give a better representation of estimated additional work compared to entire module. The extra coding will not be done until after being released to BETA and only then if others notice the same things as I did.

[Dann-J]

Alchemist's fire's availability aside (I agree with Tchos in that regard), it's still 1d6 damage, so it's not exactly a nuclear bomb, and even crippled old goblins will have a good chance to shrug it off. I actually had to check the wiki, because I always seem to do 1 damage with it, which means that finishing off trolls is the only real use I've ever found for it.

 

At the very least, it's a guaranteed rat killer.

 

Choking powder is an even better option. Ingredients should be easier to find in wilderness areas (belladonna and garlic), it's as easy to make as AF (Craft Alchemy 4), it works on a group of enemies, and the effects last for several rounds.

 

 

Alpha Testing #6


C ) Party currently 3 clerics, a wizard and a dog (henchman). All PCs are at level 3.
 

 

I have fond memories of the dog companion in the game Arcanum. The player would encounter someone being cruel to their dog in a back alley somewhere and could choose to rescue the dog if they wanted to. If you kept it alive long enough it would eventually level up to be one of the most powerful companions in the game. He proved to be anything other than a 'worthless mutt'.

[Tchos]

I saved that dog.

[Eguintir Eligard]

This makes me remember that you were the one who requested the Fatty project Lance. It's actually complete.... I should really round it up and upload it.

[Lance Botelle]

This makes me remember that you were the one who requested the Fatty project Lance. It's actually complete.... I should really round it up and upload it.

Hi E.E.

I have already downloaded the 86% version (which your signature says). I downloaded that version a while ago.

Have you resolved the issues you were having then? I will download the Fatty again, just in case I have an older version then.

Thanks for the heads up.

Cheers,
Lance.