1021 réponses à ce sujet

[KBomb]

I'll be completely honest, clipping is one of the most glaring annoyances to me in games. I can deal with it, but I very much dislike that I have to deal with it. Obvious clipping on a character you have to constantly look at makes it even worse. It's why in DAO I could never use the heavy armor with that weird right shoulder that constantly clipped near the chest of the character. It's why the only heavy armor warriors I used were dwarves because they looked awesome in their dwarven armor.

It's very annoying. I can't understand logic of wanting a company to purposely put out broken and flawed product so that the CC can have a few more options. To each their own, but it's a bizarre concept to me and if I were an artist, I would feel a sense of shame and not a little anger if my boss expected me to do that. I would feel my integrity as a designer would be diminished. My opinion only, but there it is.

[Meltemph]

It's very annoying. I can't understand logic of wanting a company to purposely put out broken and flawed product so that the CC can have a few more options. To each their own, but it's a bizarre concept to me and if I were an artist, I would feel a sense of shame and not a little anger if my boss expected me to do that. I would feel my integrity as a designer would be diminished. My opinion only, but there it is.

Ya, it is like a ink spot on a white shirt. Sure less then 1% of the shirt has ink on it, but all I see is the ink.

 

It's like this, to me:

[sylvanaerie]

I don't like the clipping and I really don't like the textures on those long hairs for SW.  I also wonder how a jedi (warrior/rogue etc) can hop around the battlefield like they do with long hair constantly in the face, which it should be but isn't, because it's like a plastic helmet and doesn't move.  Total immersion breaker for me.  Hence, why i usually use bobs and pixie cuts when I can.  For me, mages tend to get a little more slack, with loose hair, because they aren't as martial as rogues or warriors, but even then, I tend to put them in that short hair with all the tiny braids in it (Oriana wears in the Human Noble Origin).

 

My warrior woman used Anora's hairdo, and my rogues a ponytail or Leliana's hairstyle.  Even when I added mods, I still kept this theme.  

 

I saw the texture on Sgt Harding's hair and the one on the shot with Josephine and now I'm wondering if Josie got good textures because of the darker color or just because it's rendered differently.  I wish I could see better.

 

Guess I will find out in a couple weeks.

[Mad Cassidy]

The relative quantity (not quality) of qunari hairs is due to a prioritization of horn styles over hairstyles. Had they done a full set of horn styles and hairstyles, qunari would have twice as many CC options as any other race and would have "taken" from the overall pool of resources.

 

As it stands now, Qunari have markedly less customization options than any of the other races. Also, why is it necessary that all races receive an equal share of resources if it means that races end up with unequal end-quality?

 

 

A )

Qunari have approximately 24 slider options for their hair+horns, of which there are 3 distinct hair meshes and a bit less than a dozen horn meshes (of which about a third are broken variants of a singular horn model)

Humans/Dwarves/Elves have approximately 24 slider options for their hair

Humans/Dwarves/Elves have roughly half a dozen tattoo options unique to their race

Qunari do not have CC tattoos

All other CC options are considered equal among races, and so can be ignored.

 

When making a Human/Dwarf/Elf character, there are 24*6 = 144 variations, when considering these options

When making a Qunari character, there are 24*1 = 24 variations, when considering these options

144 > 24

 

Now sure, horns aren't the same as tattoos. Horns require their own meshes and texturing, and so require more work. But... Humans/Dwarves/Elves also gain access to a veritable plethora of hats, helms, and other headgear that require their own meshes and texturing. Qunari get a few variations of face paint.

 

Also, while Humans/Dwarves/Elves have 24 unique hair meshes, Qunari have access to 3 unique hair meshes and 10 or so horn meshes, for a total of 10 + 3 = 13 unique available meshes.

24 > 13

 

So as it is, the skew is definitely in favour of non-Qunari. And it's not even a small discrepancy. There are many fewer possible combinations open to Qunari - they are the race most lacking in terms of diversity.

 

B )

Why is it automatically a bad thing that Qunari get slightly more CC options for unique racial features, or require a slightly larger percentage of the CC resource pool? It would be foolish to allot exactly the same amount of time and resources to each race. Equal share of resources does not equate to equal quality. Some races can share resources, and other cannot. Some require unique models. All races should appear to the end-user to be equal in terms of their quality. That Qunari have access to cool horns does not mean that they deserve fewer hair options to 'balance them out' so they have the same number of CC slider options as Humans. Should Dwarves get fewer hair options to balance out the fact that they may have a few unique Dwarven beard options? That one race has a feature that others do not is no excuse to skimp on that race's other features.

[Meltemph]

As it stands now, Qunari have markedly less customization options than any of the other races. Also, why is it necessary that all races receive an equal share of resources if it means that races end up with unequal end-quality?

 

 

A )

Qunari have approximately 24 slider options for their hair+horns, of which there are 3 distinct hair meshes and a bit less than a dozen horn meshes (of which about a third are broken variants of a singular horn model)

Humans/Dwarves/Elves have approximately 24 slider options for their hair

Humans/Dwarves/Elves have roughly half a dozen tattoo options unique to their race

Qunari do not have CC tattoos

All other CC options are considered equal among races, and so can be ignored.

 

When making a Human/Dwarf/Elf character, there are 24*6 = 144 variations, when considering these options

When making a Qunari character, there are 24*1 = 24 variations, when considering these options

144 > 24

 

Now sure, horns aren't the same as tattoos. Horns require their own meshes and texturing, and so require more work. But... Humans/Dwarves/Elves also gain access to a veritable plethora of hats, helms, and other headgear that require their own meshes and texturing. Qunari get a few variations of face paint.

 

Also, while Humans/Dwarves/Elves have 24 unique hair meshes, Qunari have access to 3 unique hair meshes and 10 or so horn meshes, for a total of 10 + 3 = 13 unique available meshes.

24 > 13

 

So as it is, the skew is definitely in favour of non-Qunari. And it's not even a small discrepancy. There are many fewer possible combinations open to Qunari - they are the race most lacking in terms of diversity.

 

B )

Why is it automatically a bad thing that Qunari get slightly more CC options for unique racial features, or require a slightly larger percentage of the CC resource pool? It would be foolish to allot exactly the same amount of time and resources to each race. Equal share of resources does not equate to equal quality. Some races can share resources, and other cannot. Some require unique models. All races should appear to the end-user to be equal in terms of their quality. That Qunari have access to cool horns does not mean that they deserve fewer hair options to 'balance them out' so they have the same number of CC slider options as Humans. Should Dwarves get fewer hair options to balance out the fact that they may have a few unique Dwarven beard options? That one race has a feature that others do not is no excuse to skimp on that race's other features.

 

 

Well, if we follow the law of non-contradiction, why does the Qunari need to have equal or more CC options then the others?

[Ieldra]

It's very annoying. I can't understand logic of wanting a company to purposely put out broken and flawed product so that the CC can have a few more options. To each their own, but it's a bizarre concept to me and if I were an artist, I would feel a sense of shame and not a little anger if my boss expected me to do that. I would feel my integrity as a designer would be diminished. My opinion only, but there it is.

"Broken and flawed" because of a few minor clipping issues? Really, that's as if I'd say the lack of good-looking hairstyles made the game broken and flawed. I get that it's a big thing for some people, but others don't even see what's glaringly obvious to you. There will always be trade-offs as long as the technology isn't up to doing realistic hair, and where the right balance lies is very subjective.

 

Anyway, avoding clipping may result in hair limited to shorter styles, but it's no excuse for the abomination I posted in the OP. And for plastic textures.

[Mad Cassidy]

Well, if we follow the law of non-contradiction, why does the Qunari need to have equal or more CC options then the others?

 

The total CC slider count for each race need not be the same. Some races, such as Qunari, may require more because there are extra bits to consider vs. other races. Elves or Dwarves may require more because of racially distinct tattoos, QUnari because of horns. It doesn't really matter if one has slightly more due to something that is unique to that race.

 

My bone of contention is that there is a conspicuous lack of equality within shared sets.

 

Hair is a feature common to all races, and largely independent of race. However, one of four races has significantly fewer options within this set. To the point that the relative lack of options is very noticeable.

 

Horns are not a shared set. They are unique to Qunari. That other races do not have horns does not mean that Qunari need to be docked CC options to compensate based on some ideal of equality.

[KBomb]

"Broken and flawed" because of a few minor clipping issues? Really, that's as if I'd say the lack of good-looking hairstyles made the game broken and flawed. I get that it's a big thing for some people, but others don't even see what's glaringly obvious to you. There will always be trade-offs as long as the technology isn't up to doing realistic hair, and where the right balance lies is very subjective.

Anyway, avoding clipping may result in hair limited to shorter styles, but it's no excuse for the abomination I posted in the OP. And for plastic textures.

Yes, broken and flawed. If a cup has a chip in it, it's still usable, but the quality isn't up to par. I might use it if it's in my cubbard, but I wouldn't spend money on it. Lacking what you consider to be "good" hairstyles, isn't even close to asking your employees to purposely allow bugs and imperfections to pass under the radar. You're right, there are trade offs. One of them might be the fact you don't get long hairstyles because perhaps they don't want to spend time and resources on it, in order to add something else. Maybe the trade off for adding the Quanari race along with the horns and face tattoos took up some of the resource, or the two extra romance options, maybe the elf bodies or special tattoos for them or any other thing they saw fit to add. I don't know if that is why, but I don't imagine resource and time are infinite.

You're certainly entitled to your opinion and if your opinion is that you'd rather take quantity over quality, then that is your prerogative. Personally, I don't want to see the beginning of a trend where companies let quality control slip for any reason. I would rather them shelve it until they can release the feature in proper working order.

[Meltemph]

"Broken and flawed" because of a few minor clipping issues? Really, that's as if I'd say the lack of good-looking hairstyles made the game broken and flawed. I get that it's a big thing for some people, but others don't even see what's glaringly obvious to you. There will always be trade-offs as long as the technology isn't up to doing realistic hair, and where the right balance lies is very subjective.

 

Anyway, avoding clipping may result in hair limited to shorter styles, but it's no excuse for the abomination I posted in the OP. And for plastic textures.

I agree with your hairstyle comment, they look bad, but yes, to me clipping is a much bigger deal and one that is a constant noticeable thing, I never get numb to it. It's like a small drop of mud on a beautiful tapestry, you ALWAYS notice the mud.

[llawsford]

[Bugsie]

"Broken and flawed" because of a few minor clipping issues? Really, that's as if I'd say the lack of good-looking hairstyles made the game broken and flawed. I get that it's a big thing for some people, but others don't even see what's glaringly obvious to you. There will always be trade-offs as long as the technology isn't up to doing realistic hair, and where the right balance lies is very subjective.

Anyway, avoding clipping may result in hair limited to shorter styles, but it's no excuse for the abomination I posted in the OP. And for plastic textures.

well several people have said just that about hair and lack of 'feminine' styles (armour and casual). The forum is littered with statements saying just that. However, for the majority of us, It's a matter of which is a bigger bother, clipping or lack of hairstyles. Whilst personally I find lack of styles disappointing, clipping is by far a greater annoyance for me. It's like that fleck in the corner of your eye.

[Meltemph]

The total CC slider count for each race need not be the same. Some races, such as Qunari, may require more because there are extra bits to consider vs. other races. Elves or Dwarves may require more because of racially distinct tattoos, QUnari because of horns. It doesn't really matter if one has slightly more due to something that is unique to that race.

 

My bone of contention is that there is a conspicuous lack of equality within shared sets.

 

Hair is a feature common to all races, and largely independent of race. However, one of four races has significantly fewer options within this set. To the point that the relative lack of options is very noticeable.

 

Horns are not a shared set. They are unique to Qunari. That other races do not have horns does not mean that Qunari need to be docked CC options to compensate based on some ideal of equality.

It does if certain hairstyles have clipping issues with the horns or head, I'd think.

[sylvanaerie]

It does if certain hairstyles have clipping issues with the horns or head, I'd think.

 

I know that would drive me whacko.  I can't use some of the hairstyles in WoW because it clips with my Draenai horns.

[Ieldra]

Yes, broken and flawed. If a cup has a chip in it, it's still usable, but the quality isn't up to par. I might use it if it's in my cubbard, but I wouldn't spend money on it. Lacking what you consider to be "good" hairstyles, isn't even close to asking your employees to purposely allow bugs and imperfections to pass under the radar. You're right, there are trade offs. One of them might be the fact you don't get long hairstyles because perhaps they don't want to spend time and resources on it, in order to add something else. Maybe the trade off for adding the Quanari race along with the horns and face tattoos took up some of the resource, or the two extra romance options, maybe the elf bodies or special tattoos for them or any other thing they saw fit to add. I don't know if that is why, but I don't imagine resource and time are infinite.

You're certainly entitled to your opinion and if your opinion is that you'd rather take quantity over quality, then that is your prerogative. Personally, I don't want to see the beginning of a trend where companies let quality control slip for any reason. I would rather them shelve it until they can release the feature in proper working order.

This is NOT a quantity over quality issue. They couldn't do long hair right even there were only five hairstyles. Well, maybe they could if there was only one, but that only serves to illustrate that a good selection of hairstyles is a quality issue as well. Or would you rather have one hairstyle done as perfectly as technology allows rather than having a choice but a lesser implementation? It's not a "slip of quality control". Hair presentation has always been a deliberate trade-off. We just disagree about where to draw the line.

[KBomb]

This is NOT a quantity over quality issue. They couldn't do long hair right even there were only five hairstyles. Well, maybe they could if there was only one, but that only serves to illustrate that a good selection of hairstyles is a quality issue as well. Or would you rather have one hairstyle done as perfectly as technology allows rather than having a choice but a lesser implementation? It's not a "slip of quality control". Hair presentation has always been a deliberate trade-off. We just disagree about where to draw the line.

I would rather have a game with as little of amount of glitches as possible and if that means fewer styles to choose from, then so be it. I mean, of course I would love tons of options, who wouldn't? But I realize that my wants and desires don't always match up with what is possible. I agree that the hairstyles could be better and I am sure Bioware didn't set out to limit choice for their players. It is easy for us to sit and discuss what should be done and what could be done and what needs to be done, but really, we don't know what would have to be sacrificed and omitted to give the variety everyone is wanting.

Would you rather have long hairstyles instead of more story content, romances or playable races? We know that at one time we were only going to be able to play as a human and that Cullen and another character( sorry, who it was has escaped me) was added to the romance. We know Iron Bull was to be race gated and now he isn't. Would you rather have more CC options than those types of things?

I love my CC and I can spend a lot of time getting my PC just right, but at the end of the day, that story and gameplay is what's going to tie me to the game and if something should be sacrificed, I'll take fewer CC options every time. If I had to choose between fewer options or a glitchy game, fewer options will always win. I can't speak for anyone else, this is just my opinion.

[Ponendus]

I love Bioware. Really I do. Huge fan.

 

But far out they are awful at hair...

[PrayingMantis]

While I understand the problematic of long hair and probably the lack of time they had for qunari hair (I think they were the last race added), there is one thing I cannot wrap my head around:
Where are all the basic hairstyles? The options are, in my opinion, not the prettiest (but that's just a matter of taste), because the most basic hairstyles are just missing.
What about short, messy hair? Nothing extravagant, no long strands of hair that fall into your face, just short, messy hair.
They could make hair that is tied into a short ponytail and add little braids, to make it look less boring. Just take a basic hairstyle and add some little extras and it will look interesting. 
 
The hair we've seen looks extravagant to me, but not in the positive way. It reminds me of someone who was forced to brainstorm for hairstyle-ideas and every single one of those ideas were made 3D, without any more consideration. 
I am probably very very wrong about that, but those styles give me that impression nevertheless. They just look forced, I mean look at this:

Spoiler

 

You can just google any hairstyle and find examples that look more appealing than the ones we have seen in less than 10 minutes. And most of the search results won't even look super original, they're just basic.
 
For god's sake, you can avoid the clipping issue and design really interesting hairstyles. What about braids like so?:

Spoiler

 
Or what about "hair tattoos"?

Spoiler

 

There are a few options in the CC that I like, but my overall impression is pretty negative, actually. I find that sad, because there is just such a big contrast between the gorgeous facial features you can add and that strange-looking hair.

[Xilizhra]

I would rather have a game with as little of amount of glitches as possible and if that means fewer styles to choose from, then so be it. I mean, of course I would love tons of options, who wouldn't? But I realize that my wants and desires don't always match up with what is possible. I agree that the hairstyles could be better and I am sure Bioware didn't set out to limit choice for their players. It is easy for us to sit and discuss what should be done and what could be done and what needs to be done, but really, we don't know what would have to be sacrificed and omitted to give the variety everyone is wanting.

Would you rather have long hairstyles instead of more story content, romances or playable races? We know that at one time we were only going to be able to play as a human and that Cullen and another character( sorry, who it was has escaped me) was added to the romance. We know Iron Bull was to be race gated and now he isn't. Would you rather have more CC options than those types of things?

I love my CC and I can spend a lot of time getting my PC just right, but at the end of the day, that story and gameplay is what's going to tie me to the game and if something should be sacrificed, I'll take fewer CC options every time. If I had to choose between fewer options or a glitchy game, fewer options will always win. I can't speak for anyone else, this is just my opinion.

I would prefer more CC options to unbalancing the gender ratio of available LIs, hell yes.

[Tielis]

Clipping doesn't bother me (obviously due to my avatar), but I can see how it would be a make or break decision for the devs.

 

The weirdest thing is, they seemed to take all the nice hairstyles from Origins and DA2 away.  Even though it was a bit severe, the double braided buns style was one of my favorites.  

 

We know that they can do soft, feminine updos and braids because Josephine's hair is gorgeous.  It's like the Inquisitor is only allowed to be GI Joe.    This is what is unacceptable to me.

[Ap0crypha]

If there's one good thing about the awful Qunari hairstyles, its that the other races' hairs look a million times better in comparison.

 

Which isn't much comfort for my Lady Qunquistor. At least the horn style I like is available with the most tolerable of them (the mudbun). If I had to choose between having great horns and barely-acceptable hair, I'd revolt.

[Mad Cassidy]

I agree with your hairstyle comment, they look bad, but yes, to me clipping is a much bigger deal and one that is a constant noticeable thing, I never get numb to it. It's like a small drop of mud on a beautiful tapestry, you ALWAYS notice the mud.

 

I could say the same thing about the quality and quantity of the hair options provided. If there are certain hair meshes that clip, I can avoid them. I cannot, however, avoid a lack of options or avoid bad-looking hairstyles if they comprise the lump sum of my options. Qunari having only three very spartan hair meshes to select from is a conspicuous failing of the CC that I can't ignore. As fantastic and unique as I can make my character's appearance otherwise, I'm still stuck with those options. And being stuck with a hairstyle I really dislike or do not think suits my character, for lack of any alternative, is not something I can ever really get used to.

[Meltemph]

I could say the same thing about the quality and quantity of the hair options provided. If there are certain hair meshes that clip, I can avoid them. I cannot, however, avoid a lack of options or avoid bad-looking hairstyles if they comprise the lump sum of my options. Qunari having only three very spartan hair meshes to select from is a conspicuous failing of the CC that I can't ignore. As fantastic and unique as I can make my character's appearance otherwise, I'm still stuck with those options. And being stuck with a hairstyle I really dislike or do not think suits my character, for lack of any alternative, is not something I can ever really get used to.

Fair enough, but as long as I have 1 or 2 hairstyles I can live with, I can deal. Clipping issues annoy me to no end. Like, if there is clipping armor in this game, I just straight up wont use it, unless I have to.

[AresKeith]

I would prefer more CC options to unbalancing the gender ratio of available LIs, hell yes.

 

And you realize those two are completely separate things right?

[Caduceus89]

Before I started reading some of the comments, I would have said more is always better but I realized that my main gripe with fewer hairstyle options has less to do with the number and more to do with wanting to create a unique character. I don't want to go through the options and see hairstyles I already associate with characters in the game (the Loghain, the Alistair, the Flemeth, the Carver, the Sten, the King Cailian etc).

[pinkjellybeans]

On this video they show all the hairstyles options:

 

 

 

I kind of like how this one looks from the front:

 

 

But I hate it how it looks from the back..

 

 

 If only the ponytail was a little bit longer..