Funny you should mention Dreamfall! I was just watching a video with Zoe, thinking about the lovely loose ponytail she has and lamenting that there will be nothing like that available in DAI.
Spoiler
I'm also a big fan of their clothing design -- They feel natural and down to the earth, both in regards to the cyberpunk-futuristic-world and the fantasy world. April Ryan being the best example.
Also really need to finish Vesperia some time soon.
Frostbite has nothing to do with it.
Frostbite has nothing to do with it.
Any real info on that?
The problem here is that you can't just go and show a screenshot of some character with nice hair from just any other game.
Because the technical challenge here is greater than for most games: they don't have a set protagonist, and the level of customization available in DAI is nothing short of extreme. Both for head shapes and clothing.
But really, it has GOT to be an engine limitation or some other technical issue. Because the idea that Bioware is bad with hair or somehow is fine with the current hair is ridiculous. The concept shots and the previews DA games show that they've done more varied hairstyles. And the idea that it's because they have bad artists is just ludicrous (because "lack of talent" is something that can be easily rectified).
What's left is technical limitations, that they didn't have the time and/or ressources to overcome. I'm absolutely certain that the Bioware artists and devs are fully aware that their hairstyles aren't very good. If we see the problem, you can bet that they do as well, and I imagine they're not happy about it.
Hopefully this is a problem that will get rectified as they continue working with Frostbite.
Guest_Cat Blade_*
edit: Had to look up what "tank girl" was, and 'wow'.. that's kind of funny. You will be good to go with these hairstyles!
I love Tank Girl.
It was done in this very thread more than once already, most recently a few pages back.Feel free to elaborate and back this statement up.
Oh Bioware, I love you to bits but you just get hair wrong...everytime. And yes, it is important because I want my characters to look good. I do have to watch them constantly. 
Why? Exactly what in BioWare's track record of multiple games done in a number of different engines leads you to believe that no, they are not in fact "bad with hair"?But really, it has GOT to be an engine limitation or some other technical issue. Because the idea that Bioware is bad with hair or somehow is fine with the current hair is ridiculous.
Any real info on that?
The problem here is that you can't just go and show a screenshot of some character with nice hair from just any other game.
Because the technical challenge here is greater than for most games: they don't have a set protagonist, and the level of customization available in DAI is nothing short of extreme. Both for head shapes and clothing.
But really, it has GOT to be an engine limitation or some other technical issue. Because the idea that Bioware is bad with hair or somehow is fine with the current hair is ridiculous. The concept shots and the previews DA games show that they've done more varied hairstyles. And the idea that it's because they have bad artists is just ludicrous (because "lack of talent" is something that can be easily rectified).
What's left is technical limitations, that they didn't have the time and/or ressources to overcome. I'm absolutely certain that the Bioware artists and devs are fully aware that their hairstyles aren't very good. If we see the problem, you can bet that they do as well, and I imagine they're not happy about it.
Hopefully this is a problem that will get rectified as they continue working with Frostbite.
You've got to be kidding. DA:O and ME1 had ok hair that matched the graphics and detail of the rest of the game and the time it was made. The hair did not improve as everything else did and got WORSE. By the time ME3 rolled around, what were once normal looking ponytails and buns looked like zucchinis with a ponytail on the end. There were short hairstyles for men that were simply longer hair textures applied to a bald/crewcut head. DA2 (though it did have some decent styles) showed us not only horribly ugly and unfashionable hairstyles that no one who takes any pride in their appearance would ever have (friar tuck, soup bowl with stooge bangs, etc...) but poorly rendered/modeled/whatever hair at that. The longest hairstyle for men, you can't even tell if it's supposed to be straight or if it's supposed to be dreadlocked. It's formed from weird blunt chunks. The coo coo crazy anime wannabe spike style has the same problem, weird blunt ends instead of tapered spikes (which JRPGs have been modeling just fine since the N64/Playstation era). BioWare has famously bad hair compared to other games and I truly believe they either don't have anyone working for them who is fashionable, or anyone fashionable working there doesn't give any input on the clothes or hair. I get the impression that the Miley Cyrus's and the weird shaved temples and such are a failed attempt to "be hip with the kids these days."
There are some decent styles (but way to much fugly crap and filler buzz cuts) but the textures are not up to the standards of the rest of the game's graphics, especially for the Qunari.
Why? Exactly what in BioWare's track record of multiple games done in a number of different engines leads you to believe that no, they are not in fact "bad with hair"?
I mean, why can't they be? Hair is really hard to pull off well after all.
Because these are not a bunch of amateurs working in their basement. They have a full art and design team. If the problem really WAS that their artists and designers sucked with hairstyles, then they'd either ensure proper training or hire people with actual skills in the field... and they'd certainly NOT keep people who are bad at creating hairstyles working on that feature. That's seriously basic management here: you assign the right people to the right tasks, and with a AAA budget they certainly ARE capable of hiring accordingly.
The other alternative is that the devs don't even recognize that the hairstyles are rather lackluster, or that it's been a problem in past games... which is just about as ludicrous as saying they'd keep artists/modelers who are bad at hairstyles working on hairstyles. For one thing, they're quite aware of the complaints people have had with past games.
So we're left with technical limitations... and saying that good hair has been done in other engines doesn't mean much, even good hair done in Frostbite. Because DAI involves several more challenges due to the customization of our characters (both in appearance, and in equipment). Clearly Bioware encountered difficulties, and were unable to rectify them in time for release (likely because the time and resources were better spent fixing more important issues).
Either way, Bioware's issues with hair is certainly due to more than artistic/technical incompetence, and I'm confident that they're just as dissatisfied with DAI's as we are.
You've got to be kidding. DA:O and ME1 had ok hair that matched the graphics and detail of the rest of the game and the time it was made. The hair did not improve as everything else did and got WORSE. By the time ME3 rolled around, what were once normal looking ponytails and buns looked like zucchinis with a ponytail on the end. There were short hairstyles for men that were simply longer hair textures applied to a bald/crewcut head. DA2 (though it did have some decent styles) showed us not only horribly ugly and unfashionable hairstyles that no one who takes any pride in their appearance would ever have (friar tuck, soup bowl with stooge bangs, etc...) but poorly rendered/modeled/whatever hair at that. The longest hairstyle for men, you can't even tell if it's supposed to be straight or if it's supposed to be dreadlocked. It's formed from weird blunt chunks. The coo coo crazy anime wannabe spike style has the same problem, weird blunt ends instead of tapered spikes (which JRPGs have been modeling just fine since the N64/Playstation era). BioWare has famously bad hair compared to other games and I truly believe they either don't have anyone working for them who is fashionable, or anyone fashionable working there doesn't give any input on the clothes or hair. I get the impression that the Miley Cyrus's and the weird shaved temples and such are a failed attempt to "be hip with the kids these days."
There are some decent styles (but way to much fugly crap and filler buzz cuts) but the textures are not up to the standards of the rest of the game's graphics, especially for the Qunari.
I agree. I've found that some of the videos released are cringe worthy because their hair looks so bad... like a wig, or lego hair. The textures are wrong and they just don't look right unfortunately. I find in some clips, Varric's hair looks really odd.
Its sad because hair is so important to how a character looks. For me, it's a big deal. I understand the difficulties involved in making long hair BUT other games have done it pretty well and Qunari (for example) have been depicted almost constantly with longer hair. I want my Kossith to look like the female Qunari from the comics!
Orlesian style trends are crazy and no one is safe from their fickle nature. Even the Inquisition itself. Just be thankful that no one's adorning their hair with tiny song birds.
I wish one of the devs would come to this thread and say...something, anything about why they made the decision to include so many versions of the same "bald cut". I can get engine limitation or artistic or...whatever reason. But to include so many bald ones. Seems to me 1-2 would be plenty.
And the lighter textures are awful. The dark hair on that one picture looked nicely textured, very realistic, so my quizzie will definitely be dark haired and in all likelihood rocking that very style (or one similar) or maybe the pixie cut will look cuter than it did in the CC image posted.
I dunno. I just wish I could get into the CC now and see what I can do. 10 days and counting.
If there were mod tools I can promise you, no matter how limited the engine ... modders would find a way to make it look better. This kind of small stuff is where they excel.
But there aren't, so they won't, so we'll be stuck with whatever's stock and leave us to hope it improves over what we've seen.
I wish one of the devs would come to this thread and say...something, anything about why they made the decision to include so many versions of the same "bald cut". I can get engine limitation or artistic or...whatever reason. But to include so many bald ones. Seems to me 1-2 would be plenty.
And the lighter textures are awful. The dark hair on that one picture looked nicely textured, very realistic, so my quizzie will definitely be dark haired and in all likelihood rocking that very style (or one similar) or maybe the pixie cut will look cuter than it did in the CC image posted.
I dunno. I just wish I could get into the CC now and see what I can do. 10 days and counting.
I heard even the empress has short hair in this game. 
It can't be true... Masked Empire...
I heard even the empress has short hair in this game.
Which the cover has scissors going to Celene's hair....
I certainly think it's an extremely curious mystery why it's so appallingly bad, but it's unlikely to be purely a technical issue when they hair is terrible at such an elementary level. Sure the "engine" can make hair look better like this:
But when it's just a static alphaed mesh with textures that's completely out of the equation. Meaning, if tmp just found a way to replace the models and textures with his own mods, we would instantly already have better hair.
I'm so gonna do a draw-over later today. This hairstyles really tickle my artistic creativity. In the sense that I really, really want to improve upon them.
I don't blame them for not coming into this thread. For the most part people have been respectful, but there are still a lot of "lazy" and implied incompetence going about. Even if they did, what could they say? "Sorry you don't like what we offer you."?
I am sure they are aware of it. How can they not be?
One would think they are aware. And they are usually pretty thick skinned. Explaining why they made a choice would go a long way with the more reasonable posters. I don't think those tossing around "Lazy and incompetent" arguments would be satisfied regardless of what they said. I'm just interested in knowing, not why the bald cuts, but why so many of them. Since all of them are so similar as to have minute differences, variety can't be the answer.
Hair better or worse than da2?
I'd say for humans elves and dwarves it's the same (some good, some bad) but with fewer choices. For Qunari it's much worse.
I'd say for humans elves and dwarves it's the same (some good, some bad) but with fewer choices. For Qunari it's much worse.
It's uglier. I wouldn't say it actually looks worse.
I'm not sure if you really understood my question. While on the surface the idea "they are not a bunch of amateurs" etc may seem solid to you, did the hair their team(s) produced in the past games fill you with some actual confidence that they can indeed produce decent looking hairstyles? Have all their past designs left you with firm belief that all the decisions their teams make are good and without fault?Because these are not a bunch of amateurs working in their basement. They have a full art and design team. If the problem really WAS that their artists and designers sucked with hairstyles, then they'd either ensure proper training or hire people with actual skills in the field... and they'd certainly NOT keep people who are bad at creating hairstyles working on that feature. That's seriously basic management here: you assign the right people to the right tasks, and with a AAA budget they certainly ARE capable of hiring accordingly.
The other alternative is that the devs don't even recognize that the hairstyles are rather lackluster, or that it's been a problem in past games... which is just about as ludicrous as saying they'd keep artists/modelers who are bad at hairstyles working on hairstyles. For one thing, they're quite aware of the complaints people have had with past games.
So we're left with technical limitations... and saying that good hair has been done in other engines doesn't mean much, even good hair done in Frostbite. Because DAI involves several more challenges due to the customization of our characters (both in appearance, and in equipment).
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