109 réponses à ce sujet

[Vaseldwa]

                                                 Rogue Archer 

 

 

                                                              

 

                                                      Tempest!

 

                                                                                    "Wreathed in Frost or Flame"

 

 

http://www.henrypq.c...d-fire-gif.html

[EmperorSahlertz]

shock horror some people don't find standing around slowly swinging an axe into someones face particularly challenging or fun long term.

Some people would rather lay waste to multiple enemies and let the grunts mop up.

Oh the irony... You get offended for having your prefered class called inferior, but wasted no time boasting to the heavens about it... If you can't take it, don't dish it out (something oddly fitting to the classes too, come to think of it).

[Sir DeLoria]

A mage is Physically weaker only in game play, there's nothing in the lore that prevents a Mage from being in shape and fit.
 
as for the rest, it's like comparing a rifle man to an Armed Fighting Vehicle. Superior fire power = win.
they gimp mages in gameplay simply to balance builds.

To an extent I agree, but the poster my response was aimed at said that mages could do anything "better" than any mundane, which is clearly false.

Mages could be physically strong, but I doubt they'd have time for constant physical and magical training.

[Br3admax]

Why not? It's not like they have anything else to do. 

[EmperorSahlertz]

I don't think physical fitness rank high on the average mage's list of priorities. If he could spend one hour at the gym, or one more hour in the library learning more about magic, I think the average mage would pick the library.

[Br3admax]

The average mage has been a soldier for going on two years now. I'm sure most of those types were weeded out long ago. But as to the comparison, I see no reason why one can't do both. 

[EmperorSahlertz]

"Soldier"... Sure if fighting in a war makes you a soldier, then we could call them that. They've been combatants, but the most effective weapon in the mages' arsenal remain magic, which is probably also the weapon they've all mainly used in the war. They don't have the equipment or experience to actually go toe-to-toe with Templars in a pitched battle.

 

And ther eisn't a reason for why they can't. It is just that most don't. It is a typical mage thing from across fantasy stories.

[themageguy]

Mages can throw balls of fire at people that explode and turn everyone in the immediate vicinity into Enemy Flambé. Go with Mage.

If the OP was asking about mage vs daggers tempest, id say why sling a fireball when you can BECOME THE FIREBALL....with daggers

[themageguy]

Thanks for the feedback you all. I've decided to go with the archer because the archer has less abilities to choose from and it will be simpler and easier to play effectively for my first time. Feel free to keep the debate going as long as you want however.

Which specialisation are you thinking of learning?

[Br3admax]

"Soldier"... Sure if fighting in a war makes you a soldier, then we could call them that. They've been combatants, but the most effective weapon in the mages' arsenal remain magic, which is probably also the weapon they've all mainly used in the war. They don't have the equipment or experience to actually go toe-to-toe with Templars in a pitched battle.

And ther eisn't a reason for why they can't. It is just that most don't. It is a typical mage thing from across fantasy stories.

If the only support is, "It's a trope," I'll hold my reservations. And actually, plenty of the mages are soldiers. I see no reason why that wouldn't teach other mages to be soldiers. It'd be idiotic not to.

[Lavaeolus]

Learning magic doesn't have to cost physical ability -- it can augment it. They're not opposites, necessarily, for example: imagine punching someone. Now imagine beefing up and punching someone. Now imagine that, but then you shove your fist harder and faster with the power/force of magic. I bet the mage superspeeding (they were pretty much teleporting) in DA2 is just a flipped bird in the face of all the Thedosian Olympic runners out there. It might come at the cost of mastering how to light people on fire, something which might be on the whole more effective, but hey. Of course, were you to run into a templar with their cleansing abilties, you'd probably be brought back to Earth as a weaker warrior, but against everyone else.

Frankly, unless BioWare ever say "Okay, magic can do this, and only these things", mages are always going to exist in this state of "**** yeah we can do everything suck it all".

Obviously, talking from a lore perspective. We really don't need mages going around taunting rogues "oh hey nice stealth, very nice, oh what's this I got here I can turn invisible and pull a Cole that's what".

[EmperorSahlertz]

The issue is how long it takes to learn and master certain spells, and how they allow for physical activities. Remember that most spells also require physical movement in a specific pattern, or else the mage risk misfires or even demon possession.

Given the risks associated with magic, I think it isn't a stretch to imagine why most mages prefer to master their magical abilities, and have physical activites on a significantly lower priority level.

[KainD]

Uh yeah, except that's not the same thing. Point is the mage is physically weaker.

There's hundreds more examples: a swordsman is better at swordsmanship than any mage, an archer is better at archery than any mage, a smith is better at smithing than any mage etc etc.

Yes, in theory a mage could learn one of those trades, but then he'd be a terrible mage by not honing his magic skills.

 

What's the point of all those things if you can bluntly do better? What do you need physical strength for if you can just lift objects with your mind? What's the point of learning archery if you can toss fireballs? What's the point of smiting if you do not require mundane tools? 
''Carries on to sing the song''

[KainD]

Why play such inferior classes? Play something that can at least take a hit (and no, Knight Enchanters are NOT going to be particularly tanky).

 

Barrier seems tanky enough. 

[Kalas Magnus]

mage. 

[EmperorSahlertz]

Barrier seems tanky enough. 

Its temporary and has a semi-long cd. Besides you can cast it on a warrior (or more specifically the entire party) and enjoy both the barrier AND the inherent tankiness of a warrior. Win-Win.

[DarkKnightHolmes]

I believe this is what the common mage says in his head. And they wonder why templars exist 

 

Templars exist so a certain mage/abomination can get pissed off and cause a massive explosion that leads to the Templar boss going apesh*t.

[KainD]

Its temporary and has a semi-long cd. Besides you can cast it on a warrior (or more specifically the entire party) and enjoy both the barrier AND the inherent tankiness of a warrior. Win-Win.

 

No, that's not a win, because besides having a tanky barrier, mage can also do crap loads of other things, which a warrior cannot. I'll rather have a 4 mage party and enjoy my perma barrier. 

[KainD]

Templars exist so a certain mage/abomination can get pissed off and cause a massive explosion that leads to the Templar boss going apesh*t.

 

So templars exist to drive themselves insane? 

[EmperorSahlertz]

No, that's not a win, because besides having a tanky barrier, mage can also do crap loads of other things, which a warrior cannot. I'll rather have a 4 mage party and enjoy my perma barrier. 

I'm sure that will work fine on easy and normal. But you will probably get your ass handed to you on harder difficulties. Mages simply aren't meant to be able to take a beating in DA:I. Unless of course you enjoy kiting, which will always work.

[KainD]

I'm sure that will work fine on easy and normal. But you will probably get your ass handed to you on harder difficulties. Mages simply aren't meant to be able to take a beating in DA:I. Unless of course you enjoy kiting, which will always work.

 

Mages are not meant to take a huge beating and they won't. The amount of damage and CC that 4 mages can dish out will make it very hard for enemies to move around the battlefield, lest hit the mages in the first place, and when they do it's - barrier. The only exception is always the boss, because they are always immune to all hard CC, so you have to kite, but most bosses are meant to be kited anyway, besides mages can dodge/sprint through the fade now. 

[EmperorSahlertz]

Mages are not meant to take a huge beating and they won't. The amount of damage and CC that 4 mages can dish out will make it very hard for enemies to move around the battlefield, lest hit the mages in the first place, and when they do it's - barrier. The only exception is always the boss, because they are always immune to all hard CC, so you have to kite, but most bosses are meant to be kited anyway, besides mages can dodge/sprint through the fade now. 

I think they are bringing back immunities on Nightmare (or whatever they call the hardest gamemode now), which has a tendency to hit mages the hardest. Also, wasn't it only the Knight-Enchanter spec that had the "combat roll" talent? Or was it one of the universal trees?

 

Oh and friendly fire.. Which admitedly has a toggle now, but it is gonna be a pain for a 4mage party if left on.

[KainD]

I think they are bringing back immunities on Nightmare (or whatever they call the hardest gamemode now), which has a tendency to hit mages the hardest. Also, wasn't it only the Knight-Enchanter spec that had the "combat roll" talent? Or was it one of the universal trees?

 

Oh and friendly fire.. Which admitedly has a toggle now, but it is gonna be a pain for a 4mage party if left on.

 

Immunities are not a problem, you just hit them with a different spell, that they are not immune to, spells can do any elemental damage type + physical/spiritual as well. There was another fade-step like ability, that was different from the Knight-Enchanter one, I've seen Solas use it in one of the trailers + enemy mages, oh and didn't Vivienne use that as well in one of the first trailers?

 

There are tons of spells that hit a single target if enemies are too close and/or spells like chain lightning, that hit a bunch of enemies but are not a subject to friendly fire. 

[-TC1989-]

Templars exist so a certain mage/abomination can get pissed off and cause a massive explosion that leads to the Templar boss going apesh*t.

 

I believe this is the final step of what I was talking about. We start with an arrogant man/woman who knows that they hold a lot of power. Skip to this chapter, and the cycle has come full circle. Not saying every mages life goes like this, but this is what we plan for just incase, yes?

[Tevinter Soldier]

Oh the irony... You get offended for having your prefered class called inferior, but wasted no time boasting to the heavens about it... If you can't take it, don't dish it out (something oddly fitting to the classes too, come to think of it).

 

that's not irony, its hypocrisy.