65 réponses à ce sujet

[revan017]

In terms of narrative, would you say (or would you prefer) Dragon Age: Inquisition to be structured as a traditional story or would you rather have it in an episode like sequence?

 

Best example:

 

EPISODIC (Dragon Age Origins)

- After Ostagar, you had a choice of FOUR quests to do in order to advance the narrative. These are the four crux plot points in the narrative but they can be done in any way and in any order you choose. Yes there is structure in certain parts, but it was very easy to say, "Okay done with the elves, next the dwarves" kind of mentality. And each section was very self-contained. In other words, plot points of different, yet equal weight.

 

LINEAR (Dragon Age 2)

- Dragon Age 2 followed an act structure. Yes within acts it was the PC's choice what to do first, but the narrative was more framed into the whole "These are the ten years of the Champion's life" sort of thing rather than we pick and choose.

 

EPISODIC (ME2)

- ME2 had something similar. Let's face it, ME2 was all about recruitment and loyalty missions. But a lot of it was pick and choose. We do Garrus. Then tomorrow we do Mordin. Then Miranda. Then Tali, then so and so forth. In whatever order you want and they were all self-contained. Yes, once again, yes an overall narrative is there but the way we get to it is through a series of plot points.

 

LINEAR (ME3)

- ME3, on the other hand, was a bit more rigid in how we do things. First we deal with the Turians. Then the Krogans and Salarians. Then the Geth and Qunarians.  Then the Asari. Then finally Earth. But unlike ME2, the progression was less self-contained and more flowing into the main narrative. A lot of ME3 was straightforward this is what we do, this is how we do it

 

 

I am a fan of episodic story-telling. I think it's wonderful and it gives a lot of choices of what to do. I like how little bits are self-contained but build up to a massive one, rather than have all the storytelling done in a singular fashion. I really like DA:O's you have four major quests, up to you how to do it. Do you think DA:I would be like that?

[DragonKingReborn]

Definitely episodic.  In my view, the linear "story over time" of DA2 was the only thing wrong with the story.  Or, put another way, I liked the story, I wasn't as fond of the way they told it.

 

Each of my Wardens was able to make a different feeling story, but Hawkes always unfolded in the same way.

[AlanC9]

I've always preferred linear.

[PapaSmurfer]

I prefer linear. It offers a better opportunity to tell a good story, not just many small (albeit entertaining) stories. I preferred ME3 to ME2. At the same time, ME2 does end up being a linear story; by that, I mean that it has a beginning, a middle, and an end. Even if you can choose how you play the middle part of the game, it's still rather linear. But I get what you're saying. I'm pretty sure that you'll be pleased with DAI. It looks like it's in that episodic camp.

[Revan Reborn]

Episodic has actually been BioWare's traditional philosophy of storytelling and plot progression. It has been used in all of their games except for DA2. Even ME3 was episodic, as you still have freedom to explore the galaxy and really go places on your own initiative. I'd say the overall plot was more driving than in ME2, but it was still very much an episodic experience.

 

BioWare even admitted that DA2 was largely an experiment to try something entirely different from their long-accepted episodic approach. The theory behind DA2 was incredibly interesting. Watch the city of Kirkwall progress and change over the period of 10 years based on Hawke's choices. Had BioWare actually delivered on this promise, I think BioWare games may have developed quite differently post-DA2.

 

Personally I'd like BioWare to try something entirely different more along the lines of TW3 or Skyrim. Let us explore and discover on our own terms. I don't want to be confined or guided at all really. It made sense for older games due to technological limitations, but it's not really needed now. The only reason DAI has any restrictions is for the purposes of story and plot progression.

 

I'm hoping we'll eventually get to the point where we really can just build the experience how we'd like, and then participate in story missions. There's just something more organic and memorable about a game when I drive my exploration rather than being limited to the confines of the story. That's an issue with heavily story-based games. CDPR is trying to cure that with TW3 by making a truly non-linear RPG experience.

 

DAI appears to actually be more so linear than episodic as the Inquisitor will have to gain enough influence before he is able to unlock new areas, of which generally require progressing far enough into the main story plot.

[hexaligned]

I don't really have a preference in terms of story telling.  In terms of mechanics, if a game does not have level scaling, I prefer linear.

[Wulfram]

I don't really care that much.  Probably linear if there's no real consequences to which order you choose - at least that way later stuff can reference earlier stuff somewhat.

 

Though unfortunately Bioware's work process seems to make things inherently pretty episodic even if the story has a set order.  Very little really plays forward in a significant way.

[Revan Reborn]

I don't really have a preference in terms of story telling.  In terms of mechanics, if a game does not have level scaling, I prefer linear.

This is actually a great point that's worth considering. DAI will not have level scaling beyond certain exceptions such as the main story. Otherwise, in the open world enemies will be capped to a certain level. This would make episodic impractical as you would either find yourself going to areas far too easy or far too difficult. BioWare would have to try and find a balance like Skyrim where there is level scaling to make sure the game doesn't become too mundane, but it's not over-bearing like Oblivion where everything was level-scaled, ruining the experience as you never felt you were making progress.

[AlanC9]

Personally I'd like BioWare to try something entirely different more along the lines of TW3 or Skyrim. Let us explore and discover on our own terms. I don't want to be confined or guided at all really. It made sense for older games due to technological limitations, but it's not really needed now. The only reason DAI has any restrictions is for the purposes of story and plot progression.

I'm hoping we'll eventually get to the point where we really can just build the experience how we'd like, and then participate in story missions. There's just something more organic and memorable about a game when I drive my exploration rather than being limited to the confines of the story. That's an issue with heavily story-based games. CDPR is trying to cure that with TW3 by making a truly non-linear RPG experience.

This is something I'm actually a bit afraid of. If I'm thinking about "building the experience," I'm out-of-character. The worst thing about CRPGs is that they often encourage this, and I'm scared it's going to become some sort of design principle.

[Jazharah]

One look at the "war table" suggests it is episodic. And I'm happy with that

[EmperorKarino]

In terms of narrative, would you say (or would you prefer) Dragon Age: Inquisition to be structured as a traditional story or would you rather have it in an episode like sequence?

 

Best example:

 

EPISODIC (Dragon Age Origins)

- After Ostagar, you had a choice of FOUR quests to do in order to advance the narrative. These are the four crux plot points in the narrative but they can be done in any way and in any order you choose. Yes there is structure in certain parts, but it was very easy to say, "Okay done with the elves, next the dwarves" kind of mentality. And each section was very self-contained. In other words, plot points of different, yet equal weight.

 

LINEAR (Dragon Age 2)

- Dragon Age 2 followed an act structure. Yes within acts it was the PC's choice what to do first, but the narrative was more framed into the whole "These are the ten years of the Champion's life" sort of thing rather than we pick and choose.

 

EPISODIC (ME2)

- ME2 had something similar. Let's face it, ME2 was all about recruitment and loyalty missions. But a lot of it was pick and choose. We do Garrus. Then tomorrow we do Mordin. Then Miranda. Then Tali, then so and so forth. In whatever order you want and they were all self-contained. Yes, once again, yes an overall narrative is there but the way we get to it is through a series of plot points.

 

LINEAR (ME3)

- ME3, on the other hand, was a bit more rigid in how we do things. First we deal with the Turians. Then the Krogans and Salarians. Then the Geth and Qunarians.  Then the Asari. Then finally Earth. But unlike ME2, the progression was less self-contained and more flowing into the main narrative. A lot of ME3 was straightforward this is what we do, this is how we do it

 

 

I am a fan of episodic story-telling. I think it's wonderful and it gives a lot of choices of what to do. I like how little bits are self-contained but build up to a massive one, rather than have all the storytelling done in a singular fashion. I really like DA:O's you have four major quests, up to you how to do it. Do you think DA:I would be like that?

 

when i saw the title called episodic i immediately thought of telltale games XD

[Swaggerjking]

I don't really care  

 

Episodic has actually been BioWare's traditional philosophy of storytelling and plot progression. It has been used in all of their games except for DA2. Even ME3 was episodic, as you still have freedom to explore the galaxy and really go places on your own initiative. I'd say the overall plot was more driving than in ME2, but it was still very much an episodic experience.

 

BioWare even admitted that DA2 was largely an experiment to try something entirely different from their long-accepted episodic approach. The theory behind DA2 was incredibly interesting. Watch the city of Kirkwall progress and change over the period of 10 years based on Hawke's choices. Had BioWare actually delivered on this promise, I think BioWare games may have developed quite differently post-DA2.

 

Personally I'd like BioWare to try something entirely different more along the lines of TW3 or Skyrim. Let us explore and discover on our own terms. I don't want to be confined or guided at all really. It made sense for older games due to technological limitations, but it's not really needed now. The only reason DAI has any restrictions is for the purposes of story and plot progression.

 

I'm hoping we'll eventually get to that point, however, where we really can just build the experience how we'd like, and then participate in story missions. There's just something more organic and memorable about a game when I drive my exploration rather than being limited to the confines of the story. That's an issue with heavily story-based games. CDPR is trying to cure that with TW3 by making a truly non-linear RPG experience.

 

DAI appears to actually be more so linear than episodic as the Inquisitor will have to gain enough influence before he is able to unlock new areas, of which generally require progressing far enough into the main story plot.

I don't really agree with your statement about  Me3 kinda conflict each other but me 3 planets you could explore but when you did them all it goes linear with an exception of the citadel side quest stuff an one or two side mission pertaining to the current conflict  up to thessia (pardon my spelling) or shortly after if you did all the planet exploring and dlc 

 

I think it well we pretty much like tw3 or Skyrim except we have open zone but with making their a story reason to go and it seem they have been trying to blend the to perfectly which i prefer

actually in most zones they seem really open and epicsodic

[Fast Jimmy]

Why not both?

I would have liked if the options had with DA:O's areas allowed a choice about which ones to do in what order (which it did), but different things happening if you chose to do certain areas first/last. Example: if you wait to do the Dalish quest first, many of the Dalish are turned to werewolves already and certain quests and content is closed off; meanwhile by going to Redcliffe first, the PC can save eveyone in the village.

Of course, the reason why is obvious - resources and zots. Still, I think that would be the evolution of the genre.

[Hiemoth]

I am not completely certain that episodic vs linear is the correct way to describe, as even episodic stories can be quite linear. For example, the Walking Dead games are episodic and extremely linear. On the other hand, by the given definitions, the first act of DA2 was very episodic, second act a mix and third act linear. This isn't just to nitpick, but rather to point out that such clear division is often really difficult.

 

As for the question at hand, I have to go with linear. For me, the four choices in DAO are kind of meaningless as your choice of order no impact. The Dalish is exactly the same no matter at what you do it. As a consequence, there can be no really build over the story because of this, your characters can not really reflect on the big issues or undergo significant change because the game cannot know what will be the order of missions. ME3 and DA2 instead, by giving structure, could also have the character grow and react to elements of that story and thus have a stronger central narrative.

 

And on the subject of freely roaming worlds with in the terms like Skyrim, I truly hope that is not what Bioware will be going for as it really difficult to build any kind of meaningful narrative that way unless they somehow lucked on an endless amount of resources and worker hours to do that and not have it all crash down as a buggy mess.

[berrieh]

I would have liked if the options had with DA:O's areas allowed a choice about which ones to do in what order (which it did), but different things happening if you chose to do certain areas first/last. Example: if you wait to do the Dalish quest first, many of the Dalish are turned to werewolves already and certain quests and content is closed off; meanwhile by going to Redcliffe first, the PC can save eveyone in the village. 

 

This would be my ideal. It really bums me out the structure of DA:O and how it barely matters where I go first. I like the idea of ordering the plot myself but I like the idea of repercussions. 

[hellbiter88]

I think the option of going at a quest in a few different ways is pretty cool... so in this context I guess episodic

[DragonKingReborn]

Why not both?

I would have liked if the options had with DA:O's areas allowed a choice about which ones to do in what order (which it did), but different things happening if you chose to do certain areas first/last. Example: if you wait to do the Dalish quest first, many of the Dalish are turned to werewolves already and certain quests and content is closed off; meanwhile by going to Redcliffe first, the PC can save eveyone in the village.

Of course, the reason why is obvious - resources and zots. Still, I think that would be the evolution of the genre.

Both would certainly be the preference, of course - if it became possible to do without compromising the volume of non-mutually exclusive content.

 

If we reached the point where one of the major outcomes were unavailable, that might be a bit much to stomach, but reactivity within the game world to the chosen sequence of events would be a great thing, especially if there were tangible consequences/rewards for individual sequences.

[Revan Reborn]

This is something I'm actually a bit afraid of. If I'm thinking about "building the experience," I'm out-of-character. The worst thing about CRPGs is that they often encourage this, and I'm scared it's going to become some sort of design principle.

I suppose it depends on how you look at it. Having more control over what I'm doing allows me to be further immersed. If I'm on a linear experience where I have no control over my direction, I may as well be watching a movie. That, to me, is much more out-of-character.

 

I don't really care  

 

I don't really agree with your statement about  Me3 kinda conflict each other but me 3 planets you could explore but when you did them all it goes linear with an exception of the citadel side quest stuff an one or two side mission pertaining to the current conflict  up to thessia (pardon my spelling) or shortly after if you did all the planet exploring and dlc 

 

I think it well we pretty much like tw3 or Skyrim except we have open zone but with making their a story reason to go and it seem they have been trying to blend the to perfectly which i prefer

actually in most zones they seem really open and epicsodic

My point is "linear" would suggest you have no control over what you do and you are forced to stay on one path. That is not entirely true for ME3 as there is freedom in where you can go while the overarching main plot drives forward. ME2 is certainly less structured, but they are both still very much "episodic" as the OP puts it.

 

Not at all actually. BioWare has told us the contrary that we won't be able to just open up any environment and explore. Everything will be locked at the beginning and we will have to unlock new areas by gaining influence and reaching certain plot points in the main story. This suggests that the actual progression of the game and seeing new environments will actually be incredibly linear.

 

TW3 is going on an approach more similar to Skyrim where the entire world is open and you literally can go anywhere you want. There will still be some restrictions due to story, but most of the environments won't be locked away until you complete certain plot points like DAI will be.

[Fast Jimmy]

To echo Jimmy up there, I too would advocate both.

In cases where the plot would benefit from either, of course.

I believe Mass Effect 2 did this. Whilst giving you options on who to recruit next, they are otherwise flags for the next 'major' plot point. The pattern is rinse and repeat, but otherwise works with the narrative structure.

An example of 'episodic' that actually harms the main plot would be Mass Effect One. The options given defeats the urgency the plot is supposed to have. A race against time etc etc...

I don't think either are inherently bad. It all depends on how you handle these things. How to determine what is "well handled" and what isn't... well, look above. But I'm sure there are many more things people can argue and counter argue on that one.

For now... sayonara!

For ME1, there was actually one scene where if you did the rescue mission for Liara last, she is delirious from hunger after being captured so long.

A funny bit of dialogue, and nothing on the level of what I was talking about, but still - they did do something.

[NoForgiveness]

I liked how it was done in ME3 and DAO..... DA2 and ME2 were short missions and it led to them getting kind of clustered. which annoys me a bit.

[Swaggerjking]

I suppose it depends on how you look at it. Having more control over what I'm doing allows me to be further immersed. If I'm on a linear experience where I have no control over my direction, I may as well be watching a movie. That, to me, is much more out-of-character.

 

My point is "linear" would suggest you have no control over what you do and you are forced to stay on one path. That is not entirely true for ME3 as there is freedom in where you can go while the overarching main plot drives forward. ME2 is certainly less structured, but they are both still very much "episodic" as the OP puts it.

 

Not at all actually. BioWare has told us the contrary that we won't be able to just open up any environment and explore. Everything will be locked at the beginning and we will have to unlock new areas by gaining influence and reaching certain plot points in the main story. This suggests that the actual progression of the game and seeing new environments will actually be incredibly linear.

 

Da 2 which everyone agree is linear allows you to do all the quest in which order you want while some unlock other to progress story is the same a Me 3 the side the vast amount of exploration make it seem a lot more open and Me 3 does have some quest that are not not eliminated as you progress while you can not choose to any major events when ever you want you can explore do a couple of side mission bet the main mission are few and long and can complete be in quite 

Me 2 was more episodic because it allowed to more important in any order to unlock the big events same with DaO 

I was also referring that most of the area once you unlock them they are mostly open like tw3 sound which i am not following that closely and it seems that there are a number of areas you can unlock fairly early if the past couple of demos are to believe 

[In Exile]

I prefer a linear three-act (or more) story that has episodic (by your definition) content within the Act. I think a great example of a well-plotted story and well-structured story in this regard is TW2.

 

Why not both?

I would have liked if the options had with DA:O's areas allowed a choice about which ones to do in what order (which it did), but different things happening if you chose to do certain areas first/last. Example: if you wait to do the Dalish quest first, many of the Dalish are turned to werewolves already and certain quests and content is closed off; meanwhile by going to Redcliffe first, the PC can save eveyone in the village.

Of course, the reason why is obvious - resources and zots. Still, I think that would be the evolution of the genre.

 

That's still episodic. 

[Swaggerjking]

I prefer a linear three-act (or more) story that has episodic (by your definition) content within the Act. I think a great example of a well-plotted story and well-structured story in this regard is TW2.

 

 

That's still episodic. 

yes but it would of been a nice blend of the to which a episodic with blend of the linearity would better than the other way around

I like the Tw2 but I still proffer a more open one 

[In Exile]

yes but it would of been a nice blend of the to which a episodic with blend of the linearity would better than the other way around

I like the Tw2 but I still proffer a more open one 

 

I think anything more open than TW2 has a non-functional main plot, in the sense that, like DA:O, the plot spin its wheels the entire game and nothing significant happens between the prologue to the endgame.