I have a theory about the dread wolf and the Maker in fact being one and the same God, based on the ingame lore...
Without going in to it I just wanted to put it out there for you guys to think it over 
What do you guys think about it and why do you think it is or is not possible?
You do realize that you just lit a fuse on a bomb called 'Dale elves vs. humans' yet again by suggesting that the human deity is the primary antagonist of the elven religion?
Threads descends in to anarchy, madness and lockdown in 3...2...1
I believe Flemeth is Fen'Harel, the Dread Wolf. The Maker seems wrathful and sorrowful in comparison to Fen'Harel's deceit and madness. I believe them to be separate and not in the same league.
You do realize that you just lit a fuse on a bomb called 'Dale elves vs. humans' yet again by suggesting that the human deity is the primary antagonist of the elven religion?
Threads descends in to anarchy, madness and lockdown in 3...2...1
Did his post bother you? Do you feel...threatened?
Not everything is about your precious smug elves.
It's interesting how the first responses all see the dread wolf as being a form of Evil God. Perhaps I should clarify my point on that first...
I do not believe him to be intently evil. He is a trickster God similar to Loki (from Nordic mythology not the Avengers lol). Not an Evil god in intent however he does cause Ragnarok in the end...
Anyway, not trying to ingnite any bombs just curious about views from others on this topic 
Anyway, I think they're not the one and the same.
I say, the Maker must be a colossal D who plays Sims with his creations and when something doesn't go his way, he's easily adding them to the ignore list. While the Dread Wolf just likes wasting his time making other miserable for the lulz.
It's interesting how the first responses all see the dread wolf as being a form of Evil God. Perhaps I should clarify my point on that first...
I do not believe him to be intently evil. He is a trickster God similar to Loki (from Nordic mythology not the Avengers lol). Not an Evil god in intent however he does cause Ragnarok in the end...
Anyway, not trying to ingnite any bombs just curious about views from others on this topic
Actually their's little evidence that Loki was a trickster god and many scholars depute this supposed "fact"
You do realize that you just lit a fuse on a bomb called 'Dale elves vs. humans' yet again by suggesting that the human deity is the primary antagonist of the elven religion?
Threads descends in to anarchy, madness and lockdown in 3...2...
You do miss a part of the point seeing as the human diety in fact then would be an elven diety to begin with only understood diffirently by human society
Actually their's little evidence that Loki was a trickster god and many scholars depute this supposed "fact"
However there is no evidence of Loki being a true evil god either and his actions within the mythology strongly suggest a trickster role, albeit with a darker teint than others... as is much within nordic mythology
no one is plastered as evil in norse mythology though, even Ice Giants are merely opponents in a long running war.
well except Donnah mere widely known as thor who was a complete murdering nut job tyrant when he ruled earth.
no one is plastered as evil in norse mythology though, even Ice Giants are merely opponents in a long running war
very true, with most older mytholgy in fact. Wich is part of the point to begin with.
DA offers a very black & white viewpoint on religion from the chantry... opposite that of the Elves for instance wich is one of the reasons I raised this point.
no one is plastered as evil in norse mythology though, even Ice Giants are merely opponents in a long running war.
well except Donnah mere widely known as thor who was a complete murdering nut job tyrant when he ruled earth.
you could compare the Jotunn (ice giants) to the Fallen ones, the creators to the aesir and vanir and and the dread wolf to Loki is what I am saying.
In that setting could a later religion take the only 'surviving god' as their own and create a different story on it? That is what I am saying happend in the DA universe
I just want a Ferelden Frostback sized wolf boss. As long as I get that in this game I'm willing to believe in any BS this game throws at me to objectify its existence.
Did his post bother you? Do you feel...threatened?
Not everything is about your precious smug elves.
And here we go. Grab some popcorn everyone! \o/
Guest_StreetMagic_*
I expect something different than this. It seems too similar to the Elder Scrolls.. and I just have a feeling Dragon Age isn't similar or copying it so blatantly. In TES, Lorkhan is the "Loki" diety, who screwed over the elves. But to the humans -- the Norse specifically - Lorkhan is their hero. They call him Shor. In a sense, he's their Thor type god. To elves, he's a bastard trickster.
Religion and society can often be quite symbiotic, with one effecting the other in quite a reactionary with such subtlety that is does not seem evident. I think it is likely that the dread wolf and the Maker are two sides of the same coin. In other words they are interpretation s of the same deity from a different perspective.
Now I think it is safe to assume that the nature of elven religion is essentially polytheistic whereas human belief is monotheistic. So in the human belief system their is only one god. The elves on the other hand have interpreted a "satan" or perhaps "loki" of sort in the Dread Wolf. This Dread Wolf's presence may simply be evidence of the awareness and fundamental, cultural dislike of humans and more specifically the Maker.
Does that make sense?
I expect something different to this. It seems too similar to the Elder Scrolls.. and I just have a feeling Dragon Age isn't similar or copying it so blatantly. In TES, Lorkhan is the "Loki" diety, who screwed over the elves. But to the humans -- the Norse specifically - Lorkhan is their hero. They call him Shor. In a sense, he's their Thor type god. To elves, he's a bastard trickster.
I agree that it is very similar, yet most mythology have very common points in real life aswell (strange to have real life and mythology in one sentence lol)
I do believe there is more to the story as a whole including Andraste and Flemeth amongst other things
However there is no evidence of Loki being a true evil god either and his actions within the mythology strongly suggest a trickster role, albeit with a darker teint than others... as is much within nordic mythology
Poor Loki gets a rough time of it, even when he's trying to do something good. There's a strong 'ritual scapegoat' element to how he's treated.
I find it interesting that both he and Set, the Egyptian god widely held nowadays to be their 'evil' god, are traditionally thought to be redheads (like me!). Gingerism is *that* old!
I kind of like the idea that the Dread Wolf and the Maker might be the same god, just called different names by different peoples, but if Fen'Harel is indeed a trickster god, there's nothing of that about the Maker - he's more an Odin/Zeus/Jupiter kind of god.
Religion and society can often be quite symbiotic, with one effecting the other in quite a reactionary with such subtlety that is does not seem evident. I think it is likely that the dread wolf and the Maker are two sides of the same coin. In other words they are interpretation s of the same deity from a different perspective.
Now I think it is safe to assume that the nature of elven religion is essentially polytheistic whereas human belief is monotheistic. So in the human belief system their is only one god. The elves on the other hand have interpreted a "satan" or perhaps "loki" of sort in the Dread Wolf. This Dread Wolf's presence may simply be evidence of the awareness and fundamental, cultural dislike of humans and more specifically the Maker.
Does that make sense?
it does
However the dread wolf already excists before the maker and is not considered 'evil' by the elves untill he leads the other gods astray... at least there is no real evidence for this.
Poor Loki gets a rough time of it, even when he's trying to do something good. There's a strong 'ritual scapegoat' element to how he's treated.
I find it interesting that both he and Set, the Egyptian god widely held nowadays to be their 'evil' god, are traditionally thought to be redheads (like me!). Gingerism is *that* old!
I kind of like the idea that the Dread Wolf and the Maker might be the same god, just called different names by different peoples, but if Fen'Harel is indeed a trickster god, there's nothing of that about the Maker - he's more an Odin/Zeus/Jupiter kind of god.
agreed. As for this aspect not showing in the Maker that could easily be the chantry only seeing the Good in their god
Guest_StreetMagic_*
I think it's more interesting relating the Maker to the story of Elgar'nan (the elven "father" diety), rather than Fen'Harel.
In the story, Elgar'nan is the child of the Sun and Earth (the elven creators aren't the first gods btw). Long story short, the Sun got pissed for some reason or another and scorched the Earth. Elgar'nan got pissed in return and fought back. In his vengeance (Elgar'nan became known as the god of vengeance), he went to war against his father, and eventually blotted out the Sun. He shoved the Sun deep in the abyss, and all that was left in the sky were the blood drops of the Sun. The rebellion of the child god though is similar to the Greek stories of the gods rebelling against their creators, the Titans.
In the oldest forms of Maker worship (before the Chantry), the sun was a symbol. And the Sun and Flames became a symbol again once Andraste preached the Maker again. I see some parallels here, rather than anything to relate to tricksters and wolves.
I think there it's more interesting relating the Maker to the story of Elgar'nan (the elven "father" diety), rather than Fen'Harel.
In the story, Elgar'nan is the child of the Sun and Earth (the elven creators aren't the first gods btw). Long story short, the Sun got pissed for some reason or another and scorched the Earth. Elgar'nan got pissed in return and fought back. In his vengeance (Elgar'nan became known as the god of vengeance), he went to war against his father, and eventually blotted out the Sun. Similar to the Greek stories of the gods rebelling against their creators, the Titans.
In the oldest forms of Maker worship (before the Chantry), the sun was a symbol. And the Sun and Flames became a symbol again once Andraste preached the Maker again. I see some parallels here, rather than anything to relate to tricksters and wolves.
There is something to be said for that theory aswell. I think both are plausible for several reasons.
I can't wait to learn more about it in the comming game and see witch way the stories progresses
you could compare the Jotunn (ice giants) to the Fallen ones, the creators to the aesir and vanir and and the dread wolf to Loki is what I am saying.
In that setting could a later religion take the only 'surviving god' as their own and create a different story on it? That is what I am saying happend in the DA universe
I get what your saying, but i'm fairly sure DG hinted that the maker was separate then everything and the knowledge the elves have has been so co-opted through verbally passing on the information (despite the fact its quite clear dalish have written language) that their stories today aren't exactly accurate.
I get what your saying, but i'm fairly sure DG hinted that the maker was separate then everything and the knowledge the elves have has been so co-opted through verbally passing on the information (despite the fact its quite clear dalish have written language) that their stories today aren't exactly accurate.
a good point there. It can go both ways I think.
But that is the very reason why I posted this. To see what people think about it, not to say what is or isn't true
after all its a game
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